Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

My idea is very simple ,not complicated as some think all I want NHRA to do is simply allow another body style to be used in the Super Stock GT classes , with American engines . NHRA already has the specs for the engines and already has the specs for the building of the front wheel drive cars to rear wheel drive cars to fit in Super Stock GT classes only . I have not mention to allow the foreign cars to run with their present engine combinations as that is already allowed now any way....

Dick Butler said "Unfortunately your idea favors more of NHRAs dilution of competition,not strengthening it. More combos, less monitoring of tech, more out of game combos with bogus capability"

This will not dilute any class only offer more options for racers to chose a body style to race , Plus it seems the american factories have gone soft in Performance , I said it seems I hope i am wrong.

for a example the Toyota Solara

The Toyota Camry Solara is a mid-size coupe/convertible produced by Toyota in two generations so far. It is based on the Toyota Camry
and shares both the Camry's 2.4 L I4 and 3.3 L V6 engines. It is built exclusively for the North American market and sold only in the United States and Canada. The second generation Camry Solara is built in a Toyota's factory in Kentucky. It is the 2-door Camry's successor. In Canada, it is known only as the Toyota Solara.[IMG]My idea is very simple ,not complicated as some think all I want NHRA to do is simply allow another body style to be used in the Super Stock GT classes , with American engines . NHRA already has the specs for the engines and already has the specs for the building of the front wheel drive cars to rear wheel drive cars to fit in Super Stock GT classes only . I have not mention to allow the foreign cars to run with their present engine combinations as that is already allowed now any way. This car would be a killer Pro stock body with Toyotas Money behind racing a good idea. plus they only weigh around 3200

http://16344777.jpg

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

FYI will try to get some updated figures

GM, ford and Chrysler do build a very large percentage of their cars here. Here are the 2006 production numbers:

..............US..................Canada.......... ....Mexico...........Japan............Total
GM-----3,095,109...............795,800............508,817 .......0,000,000........4,399,726
Toyota--829,703............319,940..............34,666.... .....1,179,621..........2,363,930

GM sold ..........4,065,341
Toyota sold ....2,542,525

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

I am trying to post a picture

http://<a href="http://s407.photobuc...t-16344777.jpg[/IMG]

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Toyota screws up every racing venue they get involved in so I don't think we need them. I really don't believe toyota would invest any money so we could rip their engines out and put american power in their car. They would take that as a slap in the face of the rising sun. By the way the factory in Kentucky in not a member of the UAW. Probably not union at all don't know, don't care, will never own a jap car. They may employ a few americans in their factories here but the big money goes back home. Just my opinion but how about keeping SS traditional and sending the rest back to comp where they belong. I would be interested in that.

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Harry: Do you have any facts to back up your comments? Or is this just an observation on your part? Which could be true?who knows?

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Steve Williams said "You are not all there and your posts in this thread show that. Non USA cars in Stock and Super Stock. Give me a break. Do you know anything about these cars? Do you know anybody that does that can tech them? You are absolutely lost. Just my opinion-but for a long time Pontiac racer to say what you said you have lost your mind. I thought better of you than that. I don't anticipate posting on this thread any further as this thread takes the cake for talking out your rear end.

Steve

A long time fan of you and your efforts. Not anymore....

Steve Chill this is not a big deal at all just a very simple request to offer more options for Racers and NHRA , all I am advocating is to let the racers use other body styles in Super Stock GT classes only very simple idea
I have not gone over to the other side yet

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Don, I see your comment about " not diluting the classes". I accept that statement for motor combinations but how about the chassis mods to fit a small block, a big block a hood clearance? The simpler the better would help our racing but that ship sailed with old cars new motors and the continual added combos each year....

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Not 100% sure these weights are correct but ?

Mustang GT500 3,920lb
Camaro SS 3,860lb
Challenger SRT8 4,140lb
Toyota Solara 3,200 lbs

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/p...t-16344777.jpg[/IMG] Looks like the new Pro Stock and Super Stock future to me ,hey Toyota is already involved with NHRA with a funny car

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Ok let all address the Pro Stockers ,

let see NHRA can go to Pontiac opps there are no longer around ,

ok they can go to Chrysler opps they are just about done in the performance end maybe,

ok we can go to Chevy opps those cars are well ok but I suspect they will be done also soon ,

ok we can go to Ford for the Pro stockers ,hmm interesting but I suspect their bottom line is not going to be good soon,

ok lets go to Toyota hmm looks ok to me they have the cars and just maybe this would be a good
time to get more involved with advertising their models and use all the coatails of the past advertising in Pro Stock to get their product before the public .

oh where will Pro Stock Go Mustangs ?????

anyone got any new ideas ???

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

As a former track operator who also races S and SS something needs to be done. I didnt race for 8 years adn when I came back I was still the young guy in the lanes at 36. I was obviously young at 28 as well. The more "we" bitch as races the less NH and IHRA will want us. I have been on both sides of the fence so I know what I'm talking about. My son will be 16 soon and I am fixing him a stocker and a SS car to race. I just hope he can race and see how it was done when his granddaddy was around. Besides I figure a Stocker and SS car is cheaper than rehab somewhere and i know where he is all the time.


Herb McCandless Jr

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Yes, I would love to have chatted more with you but you were involved in a conversation with another person and were working on your hot rod so I did not want to interrupt what you were doing.

Scott

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

The last I was aware the only UAW toyota plant in the U.S. is the NUMMI plant in Fremont Calif. where they build the Corolla and the Tacoma in conjunction with GM. As far as the rest of my comments they are just my opinions but I don't think they did nascar much good except bring more money which ain't a bad thing but they want to rule the whole show and they will spend the money it takes. But it does give me someone to root against.

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Don,

I don't know if Harry has facts to back up his statements about imported cars and their effects on other racing circuits, but since I do know that Honda has essentially taken over Indy Car racing, and Nascar has become Toyota's home base, I hope that NHRA will do as the "Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers" song suggested..."I'M GONNA STAND MY GROUND, AND I WON'T BACK DOWN"!!! BTW, I like and agree with Harry's thoughts on the matter no matter what....

That brings to mind another thing that I wish I could've won part of that mega million lottery for from last year...to become a big enough invester into either GM, or Chrysler to make them stop building any part of any of their products in foreign countries, and bring all of those parts, engine, tranny programs back to the USA...WHERE THEY BELONG...IMAGINE THAT, AN 85-100% AMERICAN-MADE CAR, like the cars were when I/we were kids, if not young adults!!!

I'm still waiting to hear that our president is going to get after our car makers to make them start building the vehicles that we want/need here in our country....including the major component parts as well!!!

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Thanks Scott, hopefully I'll be able to meet you again at a race in the future, but right now thanks to this wonderful economy, I'm not completely sure where I'm going to call home post 09/25/09. Thus, I may not be at any more Div 7 area races this year...maybe Div. 6? Or back to my original home of Denver, Co., and Div. 5??? Whichever one it becomes, I'll make the effort to meet up with you even if it's in the pits between runs??? I like all racers and especially those who race out of the ordinary combos.

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

FYI

What Are the Top American-Made Cars?
Cars.com's American-Made Index rates vehicles built and bought in the U.S. Factors include sales, where the car's parts are made and whether the car is assembled in the U.S. Models that have been discontinued are disqualified, as are those with a domestic-parts content rating below 75 percent.

Rank Make/Model U.S. Assembly Location Last Rank

1. Ford F-150* Claycomo, Mo.;Dearborn, Mich.; 1

2. Toyota Camry**,Camry Solara Georgetown, Ky.;Lafayette, Ind. 2

3. Chevrolet Silverado 1500* Fort Wayne, Ind.;Pontiac, Mich. 3

4. Chevrolet Cobalt Lordstown, Ohio 4

5. Ford Focus Wayne, Mich. — Toyota Sienna Princeton, Ind. 8

7. Chevrolet Malibu,Malibu Maxx Kansas City, Kan. 6

8. Pontiac G6 Orion, Mich. 9

9. Ford Escape** Claycomo, Mo. 10

10. Toyota Tundra Princeton, Ind.San Antonio, Texas —
*Rankings based on estimated sales breakouts and/or production data.

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

GM has high hopes for the new muscle car, which is just now reaching showrooms. The car, made in Oshawa, Ontario, is a celebratory comeback of '60s and '70s power machines from Detroit automakers,even thought the camaros weigh 3900 lbs or More > i only wish that GM would have aplan to be involved in racing

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Don,

I'm not going to pick at you like some others because I think you have a germ of a good idea.

Why not make these cars eligible for GT using their own in house engines, some of them make v8's that could be put in smaller cars, some have turbo engines or big 6's that could be put into their smaller cars. Get the spec's, class them against themselves, I/GTA (Import,GT class A, etc) and let them race.

My opinion is that you won't find any takers for the long run.

By the way, guys, personal attacks are not a way to discuss the problem.

I guess now some of you can yell at me, but the thought of a Fiat 850 with my Max Wedge and really fat slicks on the back makes my mouth water!

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Ill go for a HEMI in a COLT. Oh wait they did that years ago and they all crashed.

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Don, with your first 3 words........you should have been Obama's running mate

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Don, I think what everyone is trying to tell you is that your idea is a TOTALLY BOGUS combination. GM cars come with GM motors. Fords come with ford motors. Hondas DO NOT come with small block chevrolets. NHRA has already streched the rules enough and what you are talking about is a TOTAL ABOMINATION of the class. If this is the combination you want to run, build it and go bracket race it on saturday night and leave Stock and Super Stock out of your pipe dream.

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

I kind of agree with a lot of people but what future does the people that don't like my idea have about the Future of GT racing in Super Stock ?.
Any new ideas?
What is going to happen if there are no more car companies in racing any more?
What car companies will be in racing? Where will the "new" sponsors be from for racers or NHRA?
It seems to me that if there is no new influx of new racers when I go beyond Super Stock racing will be gone?
I may even be over board in my feelings(neg) about the import thing, but who will be around racing in the future is a valid question for sure and must be addressed .
Some of the racers can't handle any discussions about any new idea which I understand and so they get personal .,
By the way The amount of my e-mails favoring some of my ideas is 10 to one , as usual most racers won't post just lurk.

By the way This idea has absoutely nothing to do to stock.or bracket racing on sat night or being bo's running mate( don't insult me on the bo thingLOL) .BPotts what Car do you run in Super stock?

Hey I may think it would be cool racing an import for a whole bunch of reasons,as a lot of racers know why

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

If Stock and S/S is on its "DEATH BED" maybe its time to unload your equipment before you get stuck with an expensive "flower pot" and find a new hobby such as street rodding, riding Harleys, Golf, bird watching, making moma happy, etc.???

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

What makes anyone so naive as to believe that any auto manufacturer is going to spend any REAL money on NHRA (or IHRA for that matter) Super Stock drag racing? Toyota and Honda are suddenly going to become sponsors because you can put a 327-250 in a Civic or a Camry? And this is going to bring in new owners and drivers, because suddenly people who don't like the rules and the style of racing are going to be irresistibly lured by the siren song of import car bodies? Are you going to allow big fart can mufflers, top fool wings, and genuine "fast and furious" body kits too?:rolleyes:

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Terry Said"If Stock and S/S is on its "DEATH BED" maybe its time to unload your equipment before you get stuck with an expensive "flower pot" and find a new hobby such as street rodding, riding Harleys, Golf, bird watching, making moma happy, etc.??? "

Don Said I have never implied Super Stock racing was on its death bed but others have said NHRA racing is on a down hill spiral.
and I say a temporary slow down may be in the future so we should be active with new ideas before we have an issue .

I do know for sure if anyone wants to compete with NHRA it will take a whole lot of money like in the millions to even come close to this company that we call NHRA, heck the national points system, the 25 National events etc the purses the rules enforcement .NHRA still is the best deal out there on a continuing bases in my opinion . I just hope all understands the magnitude of operations it takes to run a company like NHRA .

Alan I am not sure but I may or may not be "naive" LOL at me

I am just wondering about any positive changes to Super Stock racing that could e made to "enhance' the Future of Super Stock racing in the future in any way some racers may have

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Don,
While your initial post is interesting I feel that we would be just adding a lot more classes without really adding any substance to Stock or Superstock racing. The economy is having an effect on everybody from racers to sponsors to sanctioning bodies. This is something I think will affect us through this season and probably next season to. Hopefully during this time we(racers and sanctioning bodies) can find a way to insure the health of our sport for years to come. Just like anything else, our sport has evolved into what it is today and will face many changes in the future if it is to survive.

While there have been definite signs of a turndown in NHRA, IHRA, NASCAR and other events there are some series that are still growing in this poor economic climate. Maybe we should look at what it is going on over there and see if there are ideas we can incorporate in Stock and Superstock to insure our future.

The ADRL(American Drag Racing League) has seen tremendous growth the last couple of years and at the last race of 2008(Houston Raceway Park), the first two this year(Texas Motorplex and South Georgia Motorsports Park) record fields and crowds have turned out for all three of these events. Series sponsorships seem to be healthy and growing in a time when other sanctioning bodies are having trouble retaining and attracting new sponsors. I crew on a Pro Nitrous team so I have seen this personally. I think there are those who think that Kenny Knowling and the ADRL are directly competing with NHRA and IHRA but I don’t think that is case per say. Kenny seems to have his finger on the pulse of the American drag racing events market and is doing who heck of a job.

It’s not to say that NHRA/IHRA sportsman racing is broken but we definitely need to assess the direction we are heading in and look to make positive changes before it’s too late. I don’t think adding cars and/or classes is a fix. We already have a hard to understand (from a spectator and newbie standpoint) and it will be hard to entice fresh blood without some changes (possibly major). Without being too self-serving we should look at what the spectators want as we all know that sponsors are looking for maximum exposure for minimal cost. Sportsman racing as we know it today is very hard to understand for the new spectator.

Spectators enjoy seeing good looking and/or fast cars but the idea of dialing in, throttle stops, etc. just goes against most everyone’s perception of what racing is all about. I think most get the idea that a car with a smaller engine or heavier weight cannot compete on an equal basis without a handicap. The idea of running “too fast” just doesn’t work in a persons mind. I think most spectators comprehend Comp Eliminator but not Stock, Superstock or the .90 classes. The idea of a throttlestop really makes for a poor spectator event and if we want to bring in spectators we need racing that is more appealing.
During the early days 60’s, 70’s and early 80’s divisional races included today’s Pro categories and drew large crowds(in most cases) but since the 90’s most divisionals have had weak or poor spectator attendance.

How do we change our current situation? I’m not sure I know the all the answers but I think there are enough great minds in our sport that we should be able to find a way to insure our future. We all know people who excel in our sport from track owners to racers to promoters to potential sponsors. We need to find a way to build our spectator base and make it a show for them. Putting fans in the stands will give us something to sell potential sponsors. Corporate America needs viable marketing avenues and we need to find one that includes our sport. I personally think that reducing classes and having more heads-up runs is a starting place. I know there are many who oppose this and many racers look for ways to avoid this but this is racing and we need to look at it as an investment in our future. I also think that Kenny Knowling has a great idea for getting fans in the stands. Almost anyone can get free tickets to an ADRL race(in fact I got hundreds to give away for the May 22-23 Memphis race if you want any) because he has worked it into the series sponsors package. In today’s economic climate it’s a great way to get fans in the stands(far more economical for a family of four than a night at the movies, etc.). I’m not sure how he has worked the economics out to make this work but he has done a wonderful job of growing the series and making it viable.

I am sure there are many great ideas out there we just need a way to organize them and put these ideas in place. JMT.

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

The concept of a foreign body in S or SS only runs counter to OLD GUYS(being one) Purity of the Sport and all that jazz. Will it add Fans? I doubt it. Will it add MONEY I doubt it. Again good someone is offering thoughts about the future BUT.....
Maybe it is our mechanisms are flawed.( MY OPINION)
Bracket racing Mentality has become dominant in S and SS as stated for MANY reasons. Ours and NHRA.
Break outs, Sand bagging, HP falsehoods, Tech laxity and bending based on politics.Delay boxes in .90s, Throttle stops. Bitching in general about real issues. MAXIMUM cost for all the bells and whistles to run 1.40 under and stroke our egos.
Bring two real looking cars(NOT PRO STOCK) late models or older and race them heads up on a THURSDAY night locally and people love it. The winner got there first. THE crowd knows it. They ran all out to get there, the crowd sees it.
Enter S and SS racing and no such thing occurs 90% of the time and people wonder WHY NO SPECTATORS? Wonder why not support from Sponsors, or NHRA. We are being ALLOWED to enter and play at the same track NHRA has races, not needed for entertainment. We draw Sponsor money to NHRA but not beyond that.
Want to improve it? Consider Modified class type rules to do away with factors.
Consider Spec motors to set cost levels.
Want later cars, kids to watch consider better entry level for adults not just Jr.Dragster.
Fewer classes with Heads up everywhere we run and everyone can have more fun and more people might be attracted to try it if basic car can be defined for entry level.

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Dick :

Some good points but in my opinion a heads race format will and did kill Super Stock racing in the past and the future would do the same thing.

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Don,
Dick has very good points and while I understand your concerns just look around and you will see headsup racing is where it's at. There has to be a logical way to get to that point as I am afriad that we will not see anything but the same old until it becomes a show again. Super Modified, the econo classes, and Top Stock started out as well conceived ideas and evolved into where they are today it should be possible to bring about headsup racing without driving most if not all of the current participants out. It seems we often get stuck with that idea that all changes will cost us lots of money and take away our competitive edge. JMT.

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

TOO many Classes = No competition only bracket racing.
TOO sophisticated motors= No new racers TOO much money to enter.
TOO many things to understand as a spectator=no interest
No spectators, no potential buyers in the stands=no sponsors for S and SS.
No heads up of bogus combinations = no true factoring.
If only Specs no need for factoring at the degree it is lacking today.
Even with this compression of ALL racers to 10 ,15 or 1 class at least Drag Racing can continue. The way it is it is its own worst enemy for the above reason.

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Dick,
We're on the same page now how to fix it? Got any ideas?

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

I'm as opposed to any motor in a Toyota as I am to banning Toyotas-foreign brands should have the same opportunity to compete as domestic brands but be subject to the same rules.

As for the politics that have been discussed, I just wish GM was as profitable with its domestic operations as with its foreign operations-I suspect the same can be said for Ford.

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

FYI

Top Fuel has less and less entries each year with the heads up format he who has the most money wins
Funnie car has less and less entries each year with the heads up format he who has the most money wins
Pro Stock has less and less entries each year with the heads up format he who has the most money wins.
Comp has less and less entries each year with the heads up no break out format he who has the most money wins.

Now let me think about having only heads up in Super Stock Not on your life did not work long time ago and will never work now.

The Present racing format in Super Stock is not broken.

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Too many classes in Stock & Super Stock, that is the problem, and yes, it may not be broken, but it has several cracks..

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Hmmmmmm. Domestic engine in a foreign car......sounds like an episode of Monster Garage.

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

George : ok so let the imports run In Super stock with their engines oh wait that is already ok to do oh never mind LOL camaros are I think not certain made in canada and I do know the toyotas are made in the US

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Don ownes stock in TUMS, MYLANTA, MALOX, so all there stomach problems he is causing everyone he is making money on.

Herb Jr

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

LOL at herbjr I suspect no one really pays any attention to me and i do know i have zero control over anyones mind especially drag racers >

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Be careful what you wish for (restricting Toyotas to their own engines in S/S GT). A Corolla with a DOHC 4-valve per cylinder Tundra V8 might not be something you'd want running amok in GT/AA....

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Fortunately, the Chevy Cobalt is still mostly American (and on Cars.com's top ten list for American parts and sales list). It sucks however that a Toyota Tundra (@ 75% American parts content) appears to be more American than a Dodge Charger, or a Chevy HHR.

Re: A new idea for the Super Stock GT Class
 

Don,

This is why i wrote a letter to the editor of the now defunct "Rocky Mountain News" from Denver, Co., back in Dec. 1988. It contained my thoughts of the "Asian Invasion of The '80's", which apparently now has become the "Conquest of the 2000's"!!!??? Over my thoughts was a cartoon made by the "Christian Science Monitor", showing 2-3 Japanese warriors standing over a mound of rubble with a standing Japanese flag waving from a pole (much in the same way our American flag waved over a battle ground after being shown to have been raised by five of our US MARINES & A NAVY CORPSMAN, @ Iwo Jima, Japan back on Feb. 23, 1945), with the caption on a board below it "next stop DETROIT"!!! How can I not feel like this has happened with the following:

1. Most of our assets are tied up with Chinese currency support.

2. Most (far too many) of our products are made in a foreign country (such as China, Japan, Mexico).

3. We have a second language with regards to products and services (remember when Fram filters showed OEM part no's instead of now translating English into Spanish?).

All of this makes me sad to be an American, who lives amongst so many who've willingly sold us out to foreigners, thus making this idea of Don's seem to have some merit...

I feel like the American Indian man in the commercial who after seeing all of the polution from people throughout the cities and states of his once sacred land, stand and face a camera with a tear in his eye...