Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

In my opinion, Robert Pond will take it away from him before the Mustangs will.
Bill Seabrooks - superfan1
Bridgeport, Ct.

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Looks to me that your mouth is bigger than your bank account.You just got owned my friend!

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Tommy,

These guys obviously have no balls or money they are just big mouth keyboard whiners. Even if Joe and Hal AND the NHRA agreed to do it at a national event we all know these guys would come up with a new excuse not to put up the money.

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Tommy,

I never offered any money to find out if he is legal, I'm just a trouble maker. I'm pointing out some interesting facts. If he got passed tear down that's fine with me. But getting by tear down for a record is not the same as getting torn down at Indy. As for sealing a motor, if you think that's a guarantee that you can't doing anything to a motor you are naive. You can get the sealer that NHRA uses very easily.

The bottom line is he has the record, but he never goes that fast at races where there is class. I think that is strange, don't you? If setting records and going fast is what they are all about, then why would you not want to show it at a class race?

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

I think the Sorensens are smart about not going fast in class. Winning class is not worth the possible horsepower.

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Congratulations to Joe and Hal. I don't think any of us in stock who were at Woodburn and regularly race with these guys had any doubts. These guys are good, give them the credit they deserve.
Jim Mantle V/SA 6632

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

well said,... congrats on the record Joe and Hal

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Congrats to Joe and Hal!!! Also to Jeff W, assuming you were there helping them with the car. I've known them for over 25 years, back when we were bracket racing our daily driven cars. As others have noted, they don't go out wandering the pits as a social gathering. I was hanging out in a pit across from them a couple of years ago (I hadn't been to a divisional in years), and I swear the exchange we had (just catching up on things) was the most I saw them talk the entire time. These guys just work their butts off. One thing about them, I wouldn't be surprised if they run the car slowly at times just to mess with people like those complaining on this forum.

Regards,

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Ed how many intake and head combos have you flowed for you car to get the best combination? Just wondering. Its hard to find a matched set without a lot of trial and error. Also I'm sure Hal will build you an identical engine to theirs than you can tech it to your hearts content and report your findings. Step up if your that positive. It won't be cheap. The last price I got from Joe was 17K and that was quite a few years ago.

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Ed and Fred have a point. Teching will not prove whether the heads and intake are pure. Let fred and and ed provide a STOCK PURE set of heads and intake and then see what the camaro runs. That is the only test to run. What casting numbers on the heads and intake is Hal running? Running closed chamber heads suck for flowing in comparison to open chamber heads and I think I need to get rid of my Brodix, Dart and Edelbrock intakes and buy another 163 as they seem to flow much better than the new age stuff.

Otherwise I could care less how fast he goes. Just giving my opinion on how to validate their ET's

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Your wrong on the intake, the 359 is much better than a 163 on the flow bench also depends on how many you flow and the core shift. I have seen 3 in a row one better than the last.

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

I'd pay to watch a match race with Sorensen and Bobby D...........

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

A fast 427 Super Stock car runs low 9 teens at 144 in SS/DA, at the same weight break as AA/SA, but the SS factor is 435, not 425, like it is in Stock. The difference is approximately 5 tenths. And 7 MPH. Carrying 75 pounds more.

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

So are all records not witnessed and motors checked by Ed and Fred bogus? Or is there a reason that they have such a problem with this car?

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Ed, why is it you insist on comparing a FAST Stock Eliminator car to an AVERAGE Super Stock car? Other than it is the only way you can "prove" your bogus point. An average Stock Eliminator 427 car runs 9.90, and an average Super Stock 427 car runs about 9.30. So what?

That's the thing about you Ed, you can't seem to grasp success can come from dedication and hard work. In your world, consistently very low reaction times mean the driver cheats. And consistently quick ET's mean the engine builder cheats. That's your story Ed, everyone who is good, fast, or wins much is cheating.

Well Ed, are you going to call Bobby DeArmond and Gary McGlasson cheaters? Because they aren't far behind the Sorensons, if they are even behind them.

Here's the deal, the Sorensons have been flogging the exact same combination for years. Same as Bobby and Gary. They've got more time and effort invested in those two cars than you have in your life. It's sort of like the guys you think are cheating because they have real low reaction times and win races. They make more passes in a year than you make in a decade.

That's enough time wasted on you, Ed, I have better things to do. Joe and Hal have put us another tenth behind. So I need to get to work. See, that's how you figure out how to go fast, you work. They have the same combination we do, and they're faster. But I'm not going to accuse them of cheating. Instead, I'm going to go to work and try to figure out what they know that I don't, it's evidently a fair amount. But what the Hell, they only have a 15-20 year head start on us, like Bobby and Gary do. They know what doesn't work, they've had time to figure it out, and we haven't yet.

You cry and whine all you want Ed, the rest of us will go get to work and try to catch them the honest way, with hard work and dedication. Meanwhile you can accuse people of cheating, and see if you can get someone to listen. Most of the rest of us know better.

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Alan, will you be at Atlanta and Silver Dollar? Jim

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Does anyone know what John Shaul's best time was in AA/SA

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

From what I can remember I think John Shaul has gone some 9.70's in AA/SA?

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

So far this year Shaul has gone a best of 10.010 in AA/SA. Jim

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Sorry boys and girls, I can’t read this without commenting…. give me a stinking break!!! Do any of you really think Hal or Joe are dumb enough to cheat? I’ve been involved in stock for 35 years. I’ve had some pretty fast cars and I feel like I know what it takes to go fast and you don’t have to cheat to do it. I’ve watched Hal & Joe longer than I can remember and I’ll tell you these guys go fast the old fashion way, yes the Warren Johnson way… they work hard at it! If you don’t know them personally you’ll never know how hard they work and how much they test & tune (and their car is nice too). BTW, it’s not just the engine… as good as they are at building engines, “it’s the tune up too”! It’s the entire combination, bumper to bumper and they know that better than anyone, (OK… include Cal Method in that last statement). Hal and Joe have taken the time to figure it “ALL” out not just the engine! I’ll bet these guys spend more time figuring out what one cylinder likes and then tuning all 8 clyinders one at a time (yes you can do that now days) than most of us spend on our entire car. And to top that off they are very friendly, nice guys and also helpful! I’ve been working on getting my car faster and I’ve never once asked either Hal or Joe a question without them being very honest, friendly and helpful. They are class act guys when it comes to racers helping racers and any of you who can’t give them credit for what they do without finding fault should be; as my mother would say, embarrassed and ashamed of yourselves. I’ll bet anyone of you 5K, if they get torn down tomorrow, they’re 100% legal. And when I win your money, I’ll give it to Hal and Joe. Congratulations to them for not getting on here to defend themselves… more evidence that they are a class act! We need more racers (and men) like them!

Larry Peterson
Stk 6261 B/SA

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Jim

John's best run this year was a 10.01 @ the Winters, don't have a mph. He ran 9.810 at the Virginia Nat'ls last year and according to Nitro Joe .

Alan according to Nitro's stats the Sorensen's pass at Woodburn he outperformed over HALF of the SS/DA cars this year and over a THIRD of the SS/CA cars and 2 of the SS/BA cars this year. Even you have to admit that is a little hard to swallow after looking at the Stats.

Hear no evil, speak no evil and see no evil .

You guys need to give it a rest, Big Ed ain't going away.

RJ

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Alan,

You got it spot on!!!!

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Jim,
It's Kevin's world, I'm just a guy with a wrench, along for the ride.

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

r sledge,
You should consider several factors when looking at that data.

1. How many of them have been in good air?
2. How many of them have tried to set a record?
3. How many of them have tried to win class?
4. How many of them were running a heads up run?

If the answer to question 1 is not yes, then the rest do not matter. If the answer to question 1 is yes, then you can look at questions 2, 3, and 4.

If number 2 applies, look at how close they came, or if they got it, as well as whether or not it was at "minimum" when they set it.

If number 3 or 4 applies, you have to look at whether or not they had real competition.

But number 1 has to apply in all cases.

But again, why would you compare the fastest Stock Eliminator car to the average Super Stock car? It just isn't a fair or valid comparison. You never compare the best to the average to see if the best is cheating. If you're going to compare the record holding Stock Eliminator car to a Super Stock car, you should compare it to the record setting Super Stock car, and NOT an average Super Stock car.

Comparing data is fine, but in order for it to mean anything at all, you have to make a valid comparison between valid data sets, otherwise all you've done is jumble up a bunch of numbers and reach an invalid conclusion.

Further, I notice few are saying anything about the fact that several AA/SA and AA/S cars have run in the low 9.70 zone. Not to mention at least one or two claim to have run in the 9.60 zone in legal trim, one was here on this board 2-3 months ago. A couple of those cars that have run a low 9.70 have been called "paper cars", but no one has claimed they have ported heads and a ported intake.

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Alan

I was just reporting on the Stats and how they compare. You have to decided for yourself, I don't have a dog in this fight. But I really do enjoy the entertainment.

If you people don't realize it by now.......Big Ed is just having fun with you. You know he really is a funny guy.

Later R J

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Seattle entry: 6633 SS/CA Joe Sorensen Woodburn OR '69 Camaro Chev 427 IRRGON MOTORS/BAM

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

L Petersen is missing Ed and Fred's point. IT"S NOT ABOUT BEING TORN DOWN BY A TECH INSPECTOR. IT'S ABOUT WHETHER THE HEADS AND INTAKE ARE PURE PURE PURE AND UNTOUCHED OUT OF THE OF BOX BESIDES A VALVE JOB.

TEARING AN ENGINE DOWN MEANS NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING IN REGARDS TO ED AND FRED'S POINT............................................. ..........

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Oh No the point is we dont answer to Fred and Ed !

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

How long do you think he'll be able to keep that record if the guys with the blown Mustangs decide they want it? 136 mph is a long way from 140...

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

I personally got to witness the nhra officials do a engine tear down on Joe & Hal Sorensen AA/SA RECORD HOLDING 69 CAMARO.I was so impressed with the nhra tech officials with the time they spent to make sure that everything was done properly, professionally and legal(two nhra tech officials spent almost one hour inspecting the intake manifold taking all kind of measurements).Even Cal Method came by to congratulate Joe & Hal on their great accomplishment and that my friend is great sportsmanship.Congrats Joe & Hal on your new OFFICIAL RECORD!
David Huff

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

OK, so Sorensen went 1.28 under and is a cheater.

My buddy went 1.27 under in V/SA at Topeka. Is he a cheater too?

1.28 under isn't exactly bombing an index.

My buddy wants to be torn down to prove he isn't a cheater.

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

I wonder how long before someone starts saying Tiger Woods cheats. I think he could be using loaded golf balls or something. :)

I have to say I think some credit is due here on this record guys. And some are so focused on his motor....what about maybe a perfectly tuned chassis to that track that day at that hour. How many of you know if there wasn't a slight tail wind during that run to help aid. There is many more varibles here than just a fast motor. I think some credit is due.

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

bear in mind that there is a .4 difference between AA/SA and A/SA. 1.28 under in AA/SA theoretically would be 1.48 under in A/SA. now THAT would be bombing the index. Not taking sides, or saying he's legal or illegal, just pointing that out.

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

....wow

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Hey Ed.....I just got home and I'm gonna get me a "Cold One" so cut loose any time, I'm ready.

RJ

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Just pop in your "Borat" DVD. It'll be just about as pointless. :rolleyes:

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

I'm rolling on the floor laughing my *** off

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

As usual, Ed, you recall wrong. I said they were LEGAL, I did not say they were stock. However, I did drag an old 427/425 piston out and compare it to new pistons on the list, and guess what, the dome is the same height and basic shape, and the valve relief is the same depth and location.

As I recall, and others do as well, you claimed several well known racers in Stock had hidden devices in their transmissions, because they had consistently good reaction times. You were wrong on that, too, and I proved it. Not only did we own one of the cars, with the transmission you claimed was doctored (I've since built it 3-4 times), but I also built one of the others (by the way, it won the very next race). Neither of them had anything in them except regular internal parts. Nothing there at all Ed, your claims that those drivers were cheating was completely and utterly without merit or factual basis.

As far as this particular discussion goes, you do not even really know who you are accusing of cheating. And you have ZERO proof. All you have is your completely baseless opinion, with no evidence at all to back it up. You claim a set of heads and intake, that you have never seen, is cheated up, and you claim that NHRA Tech is too stupid, blind, or corrupt, take your pick, to find it.

I suppose that you, and a few other people, find your nonsense to be funny, amusing, or maybe "witty banter". The thing about it is, all your baseless accusations of rampant cheating are bad for the sport. There is absolutely nothing positive about your "contribution". To anyone that lacks the experience, or access to the factual information and the truth about the sport, it gives the appearance that the only way to win, go fast, or set records, is to cheat. That's a crock of crap.

And they made you an offer Ed. So if you are so sure of yourself, put your money where your mouth is, go on out and pony up the protest fee, and prove they're illegal. Especially since you think their Stock Eliminator pistons "won't pour" in Super Stock. To hear you talk, you've got an ace in the hole. But evidently, you don't have enough faith in your "opinions" to put up the cash. Talk is cheap Ed, if they're cheating so blatantly, and you're so sure of it, take them up on the offer. I think we'll find out that you, Ed, are "all hat and no cattle". You'll hide behind your monitor, and accuse people of cheating, but when offered the chance to prove it, you'll bring nothing but excuses.

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Very well put Alan. I agree with you 100% and you know we dont agree on much. Maybe everyone on here should put up the money and have Ed protested? I'll bring my 4 year old son and he can show Mr. Ed what hes doing wrong....

Re: AA/SA Sorensen @ Woodburn
 

Ed,
Are you or are you not claiming the Sorenson's engine was illegal this past weekend? Gracia wasn't there, last I heard. And they (Division 6 tech) had the engine apart. So you're saying Sorenson's engine was illegal, and Division 6 couldn't find it.

I never said no one cheats. Not once. But I proved you wrong once already.

We've never been faster than 9.89, running the same combination the Sorensons do. So if they're cheating, I'd feel a Hell of a lot better, since they're 3 tenths faster than we are. I build our engines, transmissions, and rear ends. I've been back at it for 5 years. They've been flogging the exact same stuff for probably 20 years. So I'd expect them to be 2-3 tenths faster. Especially since we've not had the time or money to test that much. I'm not so arrogant or egotistical as to think we'd be as fast as someone who's been doing it 4 times as long with the same car. They've had a lot of time to figure out what does not work. And that is what makes you fast. Knowing what not to do is every bit as important as knowing what to do.

I'll let you in on another "secret". Those castings, intakes and heads, very dramatically. The quality of cast iron closed chamber rectangle port heads varies enough to make 30HP difference. Out of 20 sets, you MIGHT find a decent pair. And you might not. I know a guy who has 5 sets of new in the box heads, and 8 new in the box manifolds. And I can tell you that some of them are absolute junk. Some are fair. He does not have a set of raw castings good enough to make a killer set of heads.

The first official 9.99 pass was made about 10 years ago with the same combination at A weight. Now, AA weight for that combination is 212 pounds lighter. So, 212 pounds is two tenths, or 9.79. And you think ten years of progress in cams, intakes, and headers, never mind transmission and torque converters, is not worth another 2 tenths?

I never claimed anyone was pure as driven snow, in fact, far from it. I've been racing in one form or another since 1978. About 1980 or so, Jenkins said "What's NOT in the rule book is more important than what is". ANY restricted class is about how far you can stretch the rules and still work inside them. If you aren't stretching the rules and pushing the limits, you aren't racing. Everyone who is racing and going fast is pushing the limit, unless they've got a gravy train combination.

I never claimed Glendora was faultless, either, far from it. In fact, several of the REALLY good tech men they won't let do their jobs are good friends of mine.

By the way, Ed, none of the other 427/425 guys are complaining, or calling them cheaters. I don't see any of the other AA guys complaining, crying, or calling them cheaters, either. Funny, isn't it? We're the ones that have to deal with it if they get us horsepower, we're the ones who have to race them heads up for class or eliminations. We're not crying or calling them cheaters. Go figure.

Oh, yeah, it's 9:30 here, so the sky is sort of a real dark blue/black, with broken cloud cover. Why do you ask? Is the tint on the glass in your belly window making the sky look funny?