Re: Lencos in SS
 

I'd have to disagree about having the same clutch setup for both trans. I ran a much softer setup with the clutchless, alot less "hit" on the gear change than the clutch assisted. As for the trans, guys saying you must have clutch slip in the gear change that mostly is to cover their *****, less hit means less damage. I've been through it, the clutch guys say one thing so you don't burn up their clutches, then the trans, guys say exactly the opposite so you don't hurt the trans.Been there done that. I can only say from my stand point I used up $300 worth of fluid and clutches this year with a tweak over 100 runs. That same number of runs with my G-force would have used over $1200 worth. Buy a Faceplate and a slider a few times, it adds up. Now, Do I hang a cluch pedal in the stang? Joe

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Jeff-

On a clutchless 5-speed (and I assume 4-speed) the only gear that it will lock in is 5th - meaning you don't have to hold (the shifter) it in gear when you are off the gas. It will come out of all other gears when you lift off the gas unless you physically hold the shifter in that gear. This is how they check for clutchless tranny's, put the car in any gear but 5th and rock the car back in forth. If it pops out of gear it is obviously a clutchless unit. -tg

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Very good point!!!!!!!!!


Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane NHRA-IHRA

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Travis

I driven a clutchless tranny before in a friend of mine's bracket car, and in the pits, if you let off the gas, the trans popped out of gear. You are not suppose to hold the trans in gear! If the trans pops out of gear, than you have to come to a complete stop and start back over again shifting! I was told that by g-force yrrrrrrrrrrrrsss ago.


Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane NHRA-IHRA

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Danny Gracia informed Rob Youngblood at last weekends Vegas race that the clutchless trans will be acceptable for use next year in the Super Stock classes.

On another note, Rob told me you could send your G-Force "clutch" trans in and could have them convert it to a "clutchless" trans. Price is reasonable but you should contact G-Force for a quote based on your particular trans. I'm not aware if this can be done to an old Jerico like I have.

I've seen racers pay $500+ to convert their traditional Long in-line to a pistol grip. Nobody forced them, it wasn't even a necessity. They just wanted it. And I doubt the shifter, traditional or pistol grip, is responsible for them winning or loosing a round.

Don't forget, those that race other than NHRA SS may not want a clutchless trans. Just about all of the nostalgia and even the local stick racer clubs don't allow clutchless transmissions. If those are issues to your racing schedule, keep what you've got. I am. I'm tapped out and a new trans doesn't fit the bill for me. And I'm not worried either.

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Steven-

You Ford guys confuse me?!?

You basically reiterate everything I said, but missed my point. My point being that the tranny will only lock in high gear, and what gear are you usually in when getting on and off the gas when bracket racing? High gear maybe?

-tg

Re: Lencos in SS
 

i was using 4th

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Tony........It looks Like "DANNY BOY" is one of the likely ones who lit the fuse on the can of S&@T you mentioned.

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Allowing a clutchless trans in SS is more bulls**t. I wonder who was lobbying for this. This just seperates the have and the have nots even more. I was warned about getting into SS and I should have listened. Hard work only goes so far. It takes money to go fast and alot of it. Super Stock racing is fun, but where do all these rule changes stop.

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Jeff,

I sent in my Long shifter this past summer to be updated to pistol grip. i looked up my receipt and paid 209.00 including tax. Ed

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Well As Tony Knows(And Many Others Here That Class Race)There's NEVER Any Certainty To ANYTHING In Racing...How Many Times Have You All Traveled To And From An Event Without SOMETHING Unplanned Happening?!If You Can Count On Your Hands You Musta Not Been Racin Long OR DAMN Lucky!!...I Have Traveled To Tracks And They Nit Pick Your Equipment To Death(Little things)and the Next Guy With A HUGE Name rolls in and they Wave At Them..Shake Their Hand And Pass Them Without Them Ever Bringing Their Vehicle into Tech......I've Seen It Happen WAY TOO Many Times....Even When Records Are Set There Are Short Cuts For These Same People When My Car Is Scattered For Twelve States To Verify....This Is A Game..We Will Continue To Play And Pay...We'll Bitch,Well Kick,Well Scratch But We Wont Bite And Well Play By What Rules They Make Up For Us Because We Want To Play...NOTHING Will Ever Change..It Hasnt In 50+ Years and Aint Now because Some Of Us Are Bitchin About It...I Found This Out YEARS ago....
I Dont Even Have The Dough To Be Competitive Right Now...BUT Assure You..As Soon As I Do I Will Be Back And Am Seriously Thinking About SHAKING HANDS Again In My Car.
We Used to Go To National Events with at least 4 trannys...2 Autos,2 Manuals...Change It All And Race At The Track with the Lighter(Less Entries)Class..Hell Me And Phil Rohr Changed Up Between the Two Of Us YEARS Ago in My Car in Cajun Nationals...1 in Manual 1 in Auto...Those Were The Days...Those Were The Days......Sad Theyre Gone And The Modern Pencil Pushing None Race Driver Concerned Track Managers and Rule Developers Are Here Now...My Cousin "Bullet Bob" Just Bit The Wall in his NEW Car at Charlotte This Weekend Because Of LACK of CONCERN on the Tracks Behalf.....


Oh Well...Like Was said Before..These Are Just Our Rants And May Be Heard But Will Not Be Cared About by the Officials.....



SS

Re: Lencos in SS
 

I am sure this will become all too obvious. As in most investigations, follow the money and sometimes the family tree too.

Re: Lencos in SS
 

I run an automatic so I'm talking about myself here. But giving a weight break for an automatic is a 30 year old rule. Make them weigh the same or maybe 100 lbs. not 250 or 5%.

Re: Lencos in SS
 

I guess you did not read my prior post. Can we say Gracia as in Danny and his "Family Tree" SS/AH project unless my under cover "spies" have it all wrong. I guess he cant drive a "real" 4 speed running in the 8's and needs all the help he can get.....LOL.

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Great minds think alike! I was thinking the same thing and have been told that he can't !! Funny how the word gets around! As I remember when GM supplied him a Pro Stock Truck he had a hard time with it!

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Maybe he should put a automatic and a mechanical delay box in it like everyone else.
Hell the Auto's have the record even with the added weight.

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Tony, I raised hell for years about all the Loooong buttons might as well be talking to the wall. I was told once by the IHRA nat. tech director that the guys had to have them or they'd red light, nearly floored me with that answer. I've come to realize "when in Rome". Joe

Re: Lencos in SS
 

I've wondered about the "slip when you shift" mandate. If you zoom into the timeline, the shift is made and the shock load goes through the driveline. The additional load of the higher gear then pulls the engine down, reducing certrifugal clamping force on the clutch and it slips.
By the time the clutch slips any damage has already been done. Just a thought.
Cam

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Sorry Terry, I didn't scroll back.Just to be clear, are you telling me that Danny Gracia would use his positon of authority to further the racing program for his son? Does his son own the car or is there a Big $$ team involved? I thnk the N in NHRA would have to mean Nepotism if that was the case. That has to be an unfounded rumour. I can't believe that a person in that position would get anywhere near that! In Illinois, we only allow our Governor to do that type of thing...for awhile anyway. :)

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Who knows.....It may be all just rumor??????? I have come to believe nothing I read, very little of what I hear, and almost nothing I see. Just passing on what I heard and giving the stick racers on here food for thought for those who wanted to find out who lit this fuse on the s##t bomb.

X STOCKER........Nepotism means helping a relative, next of kin, relation, in finding and aquiring a job, help with the job, or just making it easier for them to acheve an objective by giving out special favors.

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Hard enough following these long threads as it is…..now us dumb welders have to get out the dictionary and look up words. Thanks Jim
Mike Szcz….

Re: Lencos in SS
 

James,
Did you see former governor Rob on Letterman? Told Letterman he always wanted to be on his show
in the worst way. Dave replied Well your'e on it in the worst way!!!
With clutchless IF YOU HOLD in gear at slow speeds like going to water box as example when
you slow down trans will ratchet on sliders and stay in gear this is barely above idle in low gear, but going down track racing if you lift or blow tires off bad will come out of gear and if you try to put back in goes to high and will wipeout slider and face plate on high gear,when in high gear you can lift off/on gas but have to hold trans in gear.
I don't know about any other stick guys but my hand never leaves the shifter anyway.
I'll give up stick cars when they pry my cold dead fingers off the shifter.
Mike Taylor 3601

Re: Lencos in SS
 

I'll give up stick cars when they pry my cold dead fingers off the shifter.
Mike Taylor 3601

now thats a diehard stick racer...

Re: Lencos in SS
 

I don't know about any other stick guys but my hand never leaves the shifter anyway.
I'll give up stick cars when they pry my cold dead fingers off the shifter.
Mike Taylor 3601[/QUOTE]

I second that! ;)

Re: Lencos in SS
 

For the record, the Cars with fully automatic transmissionwith converter may remove up to 5% OR 250 pounds which ever is less from regular class weight.

Re: Lencos in SS
 

amen:cool:

Re: Lencos in SS
 

On another thread Mike Crutchfield, who is a member of the SRAC (remember them?) said that the committee had voted on the clutchless in SS and it was voted down. For those who forgot, the SRAC is supposed to be the sportsman racers representative group to the NHRA guys that actually make the rules. If the clutchless is permitted, it is just another example of the ineffectiveness of the SRAC, the same problem that caused several of the original members of the committee to quit after less than a year since their input was being ignored.

The question posed about where this rule change was coming from is the real issue. This happens time and time again. Who benefits? Who is pushing for the change when the racers representative body has voted it down?

Note that Danny Gracia is mentioned over and over again as the source of the information that the rule will change. Also note that he is not on any of the rules making committees as listed on the NHRA website. So is the situation one where if someone with clout can convince Mr Gracia, it becomes a "done deal'?

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Nobody's figured this out yet?
Just another step towards combining sticks and automatics .

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Shoot; just give the sticks clutchless shifting, and some sort of electronic clutch release, and to "level the playing field," give the automatics transbrakes, and lockup convertors...

I'm talking Stock Eliminator, here...

That ought to keep the contingency sponsors happy for awhile... and, everybody will be happier, except the guys who have to quit racing because the increased cost of funding the new-order (read: QUICKER), is impossible, in this down economy....

OH, and NHRA can lay-off even more tech people since they won't have to be policing clutchless 4-speeds and looking for transbrakes and lockup converters (they DO do that, don't they???) :)

Re: Lencos in SS
 

This is NOT a bad thing with current technology.

Re: Lencos in SS
 

To anyone thinking clutchless is 'easier' may be unhappily surprised. Once you take your foot off the gas, you're done.

On a side note, I suppose if money is no object and you can use a clutchless trans then you might as well hook an air shifter to it? I mean, autos in SS have an air shifter for their ONE shift. So, I suppose air/electric shifters will be legal also?


____________________

Andy Stone 1102 A/S 1112 SS/C

Re: Lencos in SS
 

as i mentioned in my intro post me and a friend are teaming up to build a 283 4 speed nova we are both new to super stock ive been racing et handicap pro for a few years got boring, so were looking to have some real fun i was pretty pumped until i read this thread if clutchless is allowed we wont be able to afford it.and we'd have to use an automatic and that would just plain blow. so keep the clutch assisted transmissions!!! even though i have never raced in s or ss i say clutchless is for comp and prostock!

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Are there any real stick cars in SS that really use the clutch. I mean all you Jerico guys dont use it.

Re: Lencos in SS
 

I DO and my G-Force G-101 is thankful for it! :cool: If you can't/won't drive a stick car like it is suppose to be driven, get an automatic...;)

Re: Lencos in SS
 

I Dont Use The Clutch In My Semis Either BUT That Dont Make It An Automatic When Theyre Anywhere From 9-24 Speeds........I Dont Use The Clutch To Shift My Harley When Racing It Either.

I Only Used My Clutch Off The Line On The Old CRASH Boxs Back In The Day Also!...Thats The Whole Reason To MODIFY The Gears..

Put This Into Perspective As Well....You Are Allowed To Have:
A Mopar,Chevrolet,Pontiac Etc.. Engine
And Ford Rear-End...This Never Came In These Cars Either..WTF..


SS

Re: Lencos in SS
 

283 Nova,

Don't worry, a "clutch" racing 4/5-speed will still be competitive. There's more to be gained with the right clutch than the "right" trans. I'm going to a Sportsman dual 7" from a Sportsman 10", both adjustable for base pressure and counter weight. A little 283" in SS may prefer something similar but maybe a single 8" disk with a 142T flywheel. I'd also look at transmission gear ratios. Everybody will tell you to run a super deep 1st gear but I would tell you to pay more attention to 3rd gear and compromise somewhat on 1st gear. A little 283 doesn't make enough HP to pull a high ration 3rd gear into 4th gear.

I've looked both ways, keeping my Jerico that I bought in 1997 and have not had one breakage issue, or converting the same trans to clutchless, assuming tomorrow the new rule is out allowing such modification. On the one hand, I hear about more breakage on a "clutchless" trans; at the very least more maintenance. But it will go faster just because the spread between the gears is less; less time zinging it between gear changes. A true clutchless trans will also allow for more finite tuning of the clutch by use of pressure settings and levers.
I've looked at the issue both ways. My bottom line is, if NHRA does not allow the change, I won' care at all. But if they do, I'll probably spend the money for the conversion. Jerico wants $1500 or less, G-Force wants about half. G-Force tells me you need a pistol-grip shifter / linkage for some reason but Jerico says a pistol-grip is not needed. So if you look for a used unit (and maybe there will be some more on the market at discount prices?), keep all this in mind. My advice for a newbe would be to buy a clutch trans like a Jerico or G-Force now and convert it to clutchless at a later date when funds are better. It's not a necessity today.

Regardless of the trans type, true clutchless or clutch assisted (without a clutch), the critical factor is the clutch. Too much pressure (base pressure, counter weight pressure or lever pressure) will destroy not only the consistency of the car but parts behind the flywheel. For those that shift with a clutch, it requires more pressure applied to the clutch. Nothing wrong with that but it does have an adverse affect on performance, consistency and breakage, in that order.

PM me if you need more specific help.

Good luck with your new toys!

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Has anybody heard anything new? I want to place an order for a DR4, but am holding off for fear of this clutchless deal going through. - Tom

Re: Lencos in SS
 

as of 2 wks ago, a certain tech man said, that clutchless trannys would not be legal next year.:confused: I'd like to know because that way i can order a clutchless 5 speed...oops...did i say that..;)


Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
SS/D NHRA-IHRA RecordHolder

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Re: Lencos in SS
 

Yes, both offer clutchless trannies.