Re: Live from las vegas
 

Lol.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Class Day Comments............

The 08 Blower Fords have made a joke of Stock Eliminator......they just let the other car and drive around them.......they ran fast enough to get a 3.25% HP hit for running more than 1.40 under the sea level index......nice cars but they don't belong in stock with the joke HP rating they have........maybe like the FI cars the system will finally catch up with them in 5 or 6 years and have them race with the proper HP rating.

Here are some pix from today and I even got a shot of Terry Andersons SS/H car as requested

Friday is a day off for Stock & Super Stock other than teardowns.....

If I find out anything on Friday I will post it.......

Re: Live from las vegas
 

The hemi cars don't have to add any weight, there index got hit by .15 ... 9.60 at sea level ...

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Lol now thats funny. Why is it that when something new comes out "they need to be in there own class" STOP! You guys cried about the fuel injected cars now about the cobras. Just stop.... They are doing a fine job on there own of adjusting there power..

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Congrats to my buddy Bob Cruzen for his class win in SS/GTEA. Only GTEA car in the nines.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

The CJ discussion has nothing to do with "new" and everything to do with blasting a hole into the Stock/Super Stock categories. They, along with the bogus Mopars, are just the beginning of what nhra has planned for Stock and Super Stock.

A bunch of us figured out what nhra was up to in the early part of the year - so they got no Cherry. nhra wants to run this little game like a business, then a business it will be - but without our tax dollars subsidizing it.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

The new sea level index is 9.60.
Bill Seabrooks - superfan1
Bridgeport, Ct.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

He was also the only "small car" in GT/EA. Do you think there is an advantage???

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Is there any cars being taken apart and checked?
Casey Miles
248H

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Probably. I wouldn't expect that much of a margin, but I never tried to run one both ways. Can barely afford the junk I have now. I'm glad I don't run GT, especially the newer stuff out there. Bob's MPR Cavalier isn't as bad as what I'm seeing now. If the driver can't reach the dash, how's he/she going to turn the radio up when a good song comes on? Some of the drivers sit so far back in the newer small cars, they look more like a Comp car, or Pro Stocker. Makes me thankful the hp factors are different for regular SS and GT.

As for tear downs, Chuck Norton says Stephanie Wong's SS/JA (Chuck's old car) has to tear down this morning. Good job there, her winning SS/JA also.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Face reality guys.......stock and Super Stock just isnt what it used to be.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

You got my point Ed.....well said. Unfortunately, I do run GT against these cars and have felt the pain of them running my combo!!!

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Terry, exactly what in modern life is, as you say, "what it used to be?" Do you still enjoy B&W TV with no cable, no Internet, etc?

Like life, EVERY racing class evolves and most don't have a problem with that. I'd rather have a Stocker with aftermarket brakes, a fuel cell and a stick transmission that doesn't break every five runs.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

I agree, I went to the 1963,1968 and 1971 Winternationals. I like it much better now than then. You do not have to win class to get in to the eliminator.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Yes, I agree on the brakes, fuel cell, and upgraded trans BUT have you really taken a close look at some of the FWD conversions? They are more like slow Pro stockers with the driver locations, engine set backs, etc. Some builders really push the issue and the NHRA tech people just let it slide. The B&W TV and cable has no relationship with what we are talking about. It dosent really matter I guess as long as they are kept seperate for class from the traditional S/S cars and the index reflects that style of car.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

IN THE BARN......

This is not a complete list as we slept in this AM...

Larry Rush SS/DA
Stephanie Wong SS/JA

John Schloe D/SA
Leo Glassbrenner E/SA
Robbie Irving I/SA
John Cooper B/SA

I think that they all passed tech

Here are some pix

Re: Live from las vegas
 

The other Super Stock Car in teardown was Gary Swensen SS/H

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Hi Bob, I
I don't see a barn in those pics.
Looks like they are out in the back forty, wow looks pretty dusty out there.
By the way, Thanks for the up dates and photos........Great job

Rich

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Bob,

Thanks for the pics!

Makes those of us who have a race car in the garage wish we were there!

I could have won Class! LOL! Before I die, I WILL race in Vegas!

Jeff Goss
6990 SS/MA

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Don Kennedy's new Sunfire

Attachment 1734

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Yea, there were two SS/H competitors there and it would have been a fun class race. Shop has promised me January delivery. I hope I don't die holding my breath...

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Yep, last time I looked at the rule book the SS steering column had to be stock length and stock appearing. SS/GT rules said everything is the same as SS, except where noted. Steering columns were not mentioned in the GT section last time I looked, which would mean the GT steering columns should still be stock length and stock appearing, right? Not long chrome plated tubing. Also, instead of factory swing pedals many have fabricated pedals coming through the floor, a foot or so back of the firewall. Of course, the drivers likely could not reach pedals in the original positions anyway. I don't remember too many stock vehicles in which you have to lean forward so you can look out the door, do you? <G>

Glad I don't have to race them heads-up.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Some observations from Thursday. After watching yesterday I am glad I sold my car and let my numbers/membership lapse. What a mess 250 cars trying to get scaled and fuel checked. The later rounds of Stock and Superstock class was annouced by what appears to be the Las Vegas bracket race announcer he didn't have a clue about class racing and seemed confused and unprepared. The A/SA final was a joke Hajek had a nap on the line and Holzman shut off at 1000 ft and coasted so Hajek could catch up and pass. Then Hajek stomped the brakes to slow down before the finish line. If Hajek wanted the Wally that bad he should have had Holzman redlight.
The 2 best things about the race were the track was very well preped and I only had to buy tickets for Thursday. I had a great time visiting with my friends in the pits.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Evan,

Oh, how your tune has changed. You posted earlier this year that nhra staff would have egg on their faces if these cars were as fast as some of us said they would be. Looks like the nhra guys have more than egg on their faces. You also posted that you told the Ford guys that the CJs would not be well received if they came in and ran huge numbers. You posted that it would give the appearance that Ford was running a ringer. Well this ain't evolution that we are talking about. This is a damn fast factory race car that is in fact a huge ringer and the new Mopar cars are no better.

Most people? Who are most people? Do you think that most people want to their sport ripped apart by greedy OEMs? Do you think that most people want to see their years of hard work go down the drain? I don't think most of us want to see this happen!

Re: Live from las vegas
 

The fact is that both the Mustangs and Challengers come with production V8's in numbers from the factory and those are the ones that should be used in Stock Eliminator...right now it's just a BIG JOKE...

Should be interesting to see when the specs for 2010 Ford is coming...maybe they get a bigger pulley and even a lower factor once again...i'm truly starting to believe that this is NHRA's way to get rid of the class without the lawsuit!

and by the way Bill...SS/AH was absolut the right thing to do..thats the only fair game out there with the games played now!

p.s. I also like to know where all the people that said "let them Mustangs run first before we speculate what they can do" have gone now...did they really not have a clue??

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Bruce,

I was speaking directly to X-Tech man, not to you or anyone else. X-Tech, (Terry) is often on the negative and rants and raves about how great the old days were and how much things stink now. Well, I wasn't old enough to have raced in the '60s and '70 and I'm sure it was a great time, but get over the fact that this is not 1970 anymore. Geezzz. My comment about evolution had nothing to do with the CJ's, and everything to do with the state of the sport. Look at any modern Stocker and you'll find technology and evolution: data-loggers, O2 sensors, adjustable stocks, $5,000 automatics and sticks, trick oil, coatings, lightweight brakes, and much more. That is just the way it is. I agree that some of these conversion GT cars are crazy, but they are GT cars. Find me a sport, be it Golf, Tennis, or any motorsport that doesn't have constant evolution. Tennis players don't use wooden raquets and Golfers don't use real woods anymore. I'm sure there are some who say those sports aren't what they used to be either. CJ's aside, there are plenty of people who are having a lot of fun now, just like you did when you won your Jr. Stock championship.

I have not changed my tune and would be glad to hash out any differences in person and not on the Internet. I've done more than my share to help the Stock and Super Stock racing and the racers involved, be it in the print media or with my participation in the SRAC, so don't try and drag me down. Most others get on here and cry about this and that. I'd rather focus my effort on positive things.

I still stand by the fact that Ford's intent was not to ruin the sport, which many of you claim. My tune has not changed. Sure they took advantage of the system, just as other manufacturers have for 40 years! I'm sure Terry can give us some examples from the past. If it was a GM car that had CJ potential the tables wold surely be turned and that is a fact. If the NHRA couldn't see the potential of this car then shame on them. It's obvious that we all saw it. Nevertheless, in the end, guys like Fezzall (not sure of spelling) and Hajek, will ruin these cars in quick manner anyway. I believe that both the stick and auto will have 14 hp on them by Monday and I'm sure 14 more then next time they decide to do nothing more than qualify 1st or try to win class.

Evan

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Evan, a two or three tenth advantage would be one thing. You know damned well that 14HP won't even slow them down enough for DeArmond and Sorenson to come close to catching them, never mind for the rest of us to even get close. Those cars make Henson's Hemi car look like a slug. Hell, even Hawk wouldn't have a prayer.

Is it great that at least Ford and Chrysler are interested in Stock? Sure it is. But cars that have never had a screw turned on them dialing 1.48 under the index in bracket mode is a joke, and we all know it.

"Taking advantage" of the rules would be having a car that would run 1.5 or 1.6 under the index after having a full Stock Eliminator style blueprint build, and running at the class minimum weight. What is going on now is making a mockery and a farce of the class.

Some of those cars will approach 2 seconds under the AA index if they'll hook up, and the engines haven't even been apart. Even with 14 HP on them, they are not factored as heavy as a ZL-1, an L-88, a real Hemi, or even one or two of the FE Fords. With the 14HP, they're only 4 HP worse off than a 427/425 carrying the 10HP aluminum head penalty.

The truth is that you can't safely or reasonably add enough weight to any of those cars to reign them in. In fact, before you even get close, their "natural class" would be about a pound and a half lighter per HP than AA. If they get close to the HP they should have, they won't be able to add enough weight legally in order to make class minimum..

The cars are cool. But they need their own class. If they hang enough weight on them to make things close to fair, the cars won't even be safe.

NHRA has a nasty habit of making very expensive and well developed race cars obsolete with a stroke of the pen. And they've done it again. They've done it at a time when racing is already in deep trouble, when the economy sucks, and Ford and Chrysler are knowing and willing partners and accomplices.

Spin it all you want, this isn't even close to the same as when the fuel injected cars, LSx or LT1 either one, came into the sport. And even if it was anywhere near close, it would still be wrong. In fact, it is worse. Doing it once could be excused as an honest mistake. Doing it a second time is nothing other than blatantly screwing the racers to make a buck. "*** for tat" or whatever you want to call it is not a game to play with other people's money.

I'd feel exactly the same if GM had done this with the Camaro. In fact, when GM was considering a Camaro Stock Eliminator program, I can tell you for a fact that the racers told GM they were not interested in pulling a ringer stunt like this. The racers expected NHRA to factor the Camaro correctly, and no one expressed a desire to have some sort of bogus ringer combination. The idea of using a supercharged engine was specifically rejected.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

This is a continuing example of how Factoring has been Broken for years as far as NHRA was concerned. If SS/AH werent so expensive it would be PERFECT.Only drawback besides cost is the moving rule book on what is acceptable each year.... Maybe a SS/HA class only for ONE CAR combination would be fair for a more BUDGET race car for many other racers...
Factoring proves to be wrong at about a %95 average... Unfortunately the Mod classes of Cubic inchs STILL makes it more even for anyone...

Re: Live from las vegas
 

I agree with Alan's post.

Evan,

Glad to read that you are standing by all of your earflier posts. You constatnly pull out that old 60's stuff and the dirty deeds that GM pulled off with their cars. But, most corporations have grown into the 21st century and don't shove their customers around like nhra does. I'm at the Vegas race right now and the racers here don't like what they see. They fully understand what is happening with nhra and are just shaking their heads.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Bruce, you don't have to be in Vegas to know that many of NHRA's customers aren't happy. (I'll be there Sunday and we can arm wrestle or something, only kidding). In my opinion the whole SRAC was a complete waste of my time and I'm not thrilled about that. The members who I was involved with have a real passion and we gave our all to make some simple changes to enhance the racing, but we got nowhere.

I've said a million times that I agree the CJs are way underfactored. Everyone gets this. I don't disagree one bit with that and I never have. From the start I've only chimed in when there was misinformation about the CJs, of which there was a lot of.

There is quite a lot that needs to be fixed with the current State of stock and Super Stock. I tried to do my share and didn't get far. Maybe the CJs and the Challengers should get a seperate class, maybe not. I also think there is some validity that they should be in SS since they are not street-legal. All good ideas. Maybe NHRA should have a better AHFS system that can work quicker than the one it has.

Regardless, you can either fold up, complain, or go out and have fun racing with your friends. Win, lose or draw, I have fun at the track. If was even fun losing to that Camaro of yours because I really enjoyed that style of racing (of course I wished you would have run in 2008). In time it will shake out and there will be another killer combo for everyone to complain about.


Evan

Re: Live from las vegas
 

The next combo is already coming and its the 2010 CJ with a bigger SUPERCHARGER. they need their own class, if they want to run Stock they need their own Index. Well that seem to be to hard for nhra to figure out. Alan is correct.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Evan:
Take this from someone who has been around this for a LONG LONG TIME for far and up VERY CLOSE you can not ride the fence to see which way the wind is blowing, DON"T worry about protecting the FORDS cause you have a interest there!!!!!! JUST DO WHAT IS BEST FOR TOTAL SPORT and you will come out ahead in the BIG Picture!!!!!!!
JMPO
Ralph

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Bob,

The 2010 CJ with the 475 hp engine will be Super Stock only.


Evan

Re: Live from las vegas
 

This is how it was in the 60's. "The big 3" went at it with C.I., H.P. and then small cars with big H.P. How do you think we got the Hemi's? Now GM has to join in.

As was said in the past "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday".

Re: Live from las vegas
 

That fine Evan but thats after the horse got out of the barn in my opinion. All I see are guys with AA and A cars that spent a pile of $$ to run AA wasted most of it. Bruce is not the only one with a vette for sale.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

The question would be, are you going to sell your car because you can not win class. I thought the name was Stock Eliminator not Stock class!

Re: Live from las vegas
 

FLASH.........FLASH........FLASH.........FLASH


New all time low by FORD "SPORTSMAN" racers

In the semi-final round of A/SA there are 2 Ford "SPORTSMAN" racers and 2 Chevrolet racers.

The Chevy guys think that it would be a great idea if the Chevy guys raced and the Ford "SPORTSMAN" raced, so that it would be a Chevy vs. Ford final in A/SA.

They approached the Ford "SPORTSMAN" with the idea but the Ford "SPORTSMAN" declined and suggested that they put numbers in a hat and draw for who raced who.

The numbers used are 1, 1, 2, & 2.

The racers pull the numbers from the hat and the Chevy guys out both of the number 1 marked pieces of paper and the Ford "SPORTSMAN" racers pulled out both of the papers marked 2.

Now it really gets interesting when the Ford "SPORTSMAN" racers say that the Ford "SPORTSMAN" racers would race the Chevy guys because Ford "SPORTSMAN" number 1 will race Chevy guy number 2 and the other Ford "SPORTSMAN" racer would race the other Chevy guy.

Number 1 should have raced number 1 and number 2 should have raced number 2

The Ford "SPORTSMAN" should have raced each other,

That is how the semi-final in A/SA went down....Ford "SPORTSMEN" racing the Chevy guys.

Ford has some really NO CLASS guys representing their cars

That would have never happened on my watch

Just goes to show you that people and corporations will do ANYTHING to win no matter what.

SPORTSMANSHIP AND RULES BE DAMNED.

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Evan,

Those turds just ran into a couple of nice guys and took advantage of the situation.

Bob

************************************************** *************************************

The above post was in response to a post by Evan Smith and he has now deleted his post making this reply to his post non-responsive. Below are my thoughts on Evan Smith

************************************************** *************************************
Posted on 11/02/2009


ATTN:
EVAN SMITH

What happened to your post about the no-class Ford guys?????????????/

Not enough seeds to stand up for what you believe????

Are you just another opportunist riding the Ford wave????

Nice no guts move

Bob Mulry

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Hi All,

7:15 PM in Las Vegas.................

Still working on getting Alcohol Qualifying done.......

Next Pro Mod

and Super Comp

and Super Gas

Stock next

and Super Stock

It will be a late night getting in the 2nd round of Stock & Super Stock

That's all for now

Re: Live from las vegas
 

Evan,

There has not been any misrepresentation about the performance of the CJs from our side. And it isn't called complaining when lots of people feel they are getting rolled-over. As racers and members of nhra we have several options that were not on your list.

New word from SEMA and the nhra national event: All classes from AA to J (stick and automatic) will soon feature lots of new under-factored cars - from all the OEMs. It's nhra's way of saying thank you to many of it's most loyal members.

Tony,

Most racers still want to go class racing. 255 of them came to Vegas with dreams of winning class.