Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

If it wasn't for the "Original Cool Older (ANTIQUE) Cars" you wouldn't have the new ones...;) I accept the new cars with red carpet, but let's not push out the original iron that was the reason for Stock/Super Stock classes to be created. Those are the cars that have true character! :cool:

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Hmmm.....only took 40 years to build something that's getting as much or more attention as those COPO cars did, and it had to have a blower bolted on top to get it done, but Ford deserves all the credit w/the CJ.....they're throwing plenty of sand in everyone's jock strap right now....you can't blame them for enjoying it either. :D WJ

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

It tickles the **** out of me to see people crying about the CJ's ....When I complained & asked for a fair chance regarding redlights....I believe in worst redlight not 1st redlight... give slower cars an even break.
I was told tough **** build or buy a faster car... Guess what...buy a CJ if you dont like the current rules...
Its a bitch when the rules dont favor you!!! **... LOL....Gotta love all the crybabies who dont mind
screwing a slower class car, pay the price now!!!!!!!

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

I say the only fair way for the new cars (includes Mustangs,Challengers & Camaros)
is to put them in their own class -A/FS (A Factory Stock) at 7:50 lb. break and let
the horsepower battle begin. In very short order the E.T.'s will dictate who needs
horsepower and who doesn'r because it will be Factory Wars again.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Thanks SE, Just like I have been saying all along.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Makes sense to me. I won't hold my breath, however.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Well, Ford is already there w/the CJ car.....Mopar is very close w/the Challenger.....GM is very busy tightening its own noose and trying to get more govt. bailout money to stay afloat rather than worry about much else....The new Camaro needs some work to be competetive w/either of these cars, IMO....like a little more refined LSX motor, straight axle rear, and major lightening to end up w/32-3300 raceweight....hopefully it'll maybe happen and the war will be on once again.....and yes, these 3 new cars really do need a new class to compete against one another in all fairness to everyone involved in this sport... just my .02 cents.... WJ

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

I agree with S.E and Bob Pagano, but I think, because of the horsepower factors they'd have, it needs to be a 7 pound, not a 7.5 class. They may end up with a 475 HP factor, which would require them to weigh 3,733, with driver, and that's a LOT of ballast, and leaves them nowhere to go (but S/S) if they pick up even more factored HP (a likelihood), down the road.

A half-pound drop, to 7 pounds would alleviate at least, a little bit of that weight problem, I think.

Just my 2-cents...

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

As I see it, these new cars don't need their own class to race in. What they need is a realistic HP rating.

The argument about "they're not street legal" don't fly either. No competive stocker is street legal
(e-brake, wipers, horn, compliant exhaust system, etc. Ford made the required 50 and provided specs. for them.

The whole thing boils down to the NHRA giving them a realistic HP rating and how slow NHRA is to react to the obvious bogus rating they have now. Even with the additional 14 HP. It shouldn't take several months or years to get them where they belong because in the meanwhile the guys that have spent years developing their combinations and boocoos of bucks in the process, are getting hosed.

I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said already, but it just seems so obvious. I guess the only guys that are really being hurt are the guys that run in the same classes as the new Mustangs, but those are the guys that have the most invested in their cars. And we're talking about alot of them.

Do I have a dog in this fight? No, I'll always have a mid to low class car. But it just pisses me off to see such an obvious disparity that could be so easily corrected.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Bobby, that's just it. They do need a realistic HP factor. But when they get it, they will be factored out of Stock or have to carry a stupid amount of ballast that will will just end up breaking driveline parts in the end.

The new cars need more HP but the factors should be below what we have now. Kind of like a SS/AH class for Stock, but for all 3 manufacturers and their "Factory Experimental" cars.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

As long as Ford is the NHRA official truck they wont do any more then they have to

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

the initial hp factor these CJ's got was only given so they would fit the Stock Class guide...there's no other reason that could explain it!
I truly believe that this is only business for Hajek and co.he's got 10 of them or so i heard..Crushing the competition performance wise,winning class,qualify at the top all the time is probably only to the enhance the future value on these cars,NHRA showed thier face when they did let this happen to the rest..
The Challengers is no better..only a more realistic hp than the CJ's..but when you pop the hood it looks way outa line..SS crate in my opinion!

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

SO....Whats your point? Let them go to S/S if they dont want to carry the weight. I dont think many would cry about it.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

I'm with you on the tree updating, NHRA hasn't paid anything for low qualifier in Stock for a long time so does it really matter how fast the CJ's can go? I can purchase an awful lot of shoe polish to even up the cars, it's just a little tougher knowing when to tap the brakes and send them when they are going 35 MPH faster then you.
Casey Miles

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Actually Casey, If you had one in your class, you'd see that it really does matter.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

I have one in my class, it's just a 2002 Mustang Cobra with a five speed and it's fuel injected, as long as I don't meet up with him and I probably wouldn't, it doesn't matter.
Let's just get the Tree straighten out and all is fine! It's ET racing.
Casey Miles
248H

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Here is another point showing they are in the wrong class. First read the post by Jimmy Hidalgo, Jr.in this thread, 9.50 run ok, we know they can go 40s at what mph 144 or better ! Hell the AH cars everyone loves only just got over 150 in SS. NHRA really knows how to kill off a couple of classes.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Casey your not comparing 02 to a 08......there is a LARGE differance.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

RE: "They do need a realistic HP factor. But when they get it, they will be factored out of Stock or have to carry a stupid amount of ballast that will will just end up breaking driveline parts in the end."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

Not if a 7 pounds per HP Stock class is introduced.

What is so hard about realizing that? You could call it AAA/S and they'd have a place to race without having to add beaucoup ballast.

What is the problem wirth this? It could serve the '08 blown Mustangs, the Drag Pack Challengers, and the new, blown Camaro Z28 (if it ever shows up.)

There might be some '64 liteweight, Hemi MoPar sedans, a couple of T-Bolts, and maybe a Swiss Cheese Pontiac, or two.... (if they're legal for Stock.)

Is it such a huge deal to add another class on top of AA Stock?

I don't think so..........

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Bill - All of those things would be great but I don't think the NHRA ever wanted to have cars that weigh more than 3000 lbs on nine inch tires recording times in the low nines ( or possibly in the eights ) at close to 150 mph ..................

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Casey,

The 1999-02 Cobra is not supercharged and is by no means a killer, nor does it hae killer potential at the current rating.

Evan

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Bill,

That's the same point I was trying to make to Bobby, which is explained in the second 1/2 of my post you partially quoted.

"The new cars need more HP but the factors should be below what we have now. Kind of like a SS/AH class for Stock, but for all 3 manufacturers and their "Factory Experimental" cars."

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Myron,

Am I to understand that you want to "sequester" or "segregate" these new cars from the rest of the Eliminator, like the Hemi '68 cars are?

I fail to see where that would be necessary, if you just create a 7-pound class for them to run in. Other cars could enjoy that class, too... older ('64), liteweight, Hemi Mopars, T-Bolts, etc...

What would be the downside of keeping them as regular Stockers, but in a 7-pound class???

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish by taking them out of "Stock," or, am I mis-reading your intentions?

How about some clarification for my thick skull???

Thanks for any information!

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Bill, the Hemis are not "segregated" from the rest of the Eliminator. If they were, then Bucky couldn't have won SS last month.

My .02...they really belong in SS. Don't need to reinvent the wheel.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Those are the models that had a factory recall for low power output, right? Those were dogs. I have several local guys bring theirs by for a dyno pull before and after taking them in for the dealership updates. PCM calibration and some kind of exhaust change, if I remember correctly. About 10 rwhp gain is all they saw, and and that put them right up there with my stock (but mildley tuned PCM) 1997 350" Vortec pickup. A lot of unhappy Cobra owners back then.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Bill,

As mentioned by others, they would still be in Stock with the lighter weight break. Call them AAA, FX, or whatever. Of course if the HP numbers and ET's get much faster, they should go to SS only instead of coming up with even lighter weight breaks. The Mustangs appear to be on their way and the Challenger may also if it ever gets smaller, lighter, a 6.4 Hemi, or whatever.

I brought up the SS/AH cars because I had thought that if any parity is ever established between the brands, those cars can have their own exclusive shootouts - late model factory race cars that represent what's available on the showroom floor. But as Paul said, they would still race in Stock regular eliminations like the '68 Hemi cars do in SS.

Re: How about those Ford Cobra Jet's at Vegas
 

I had the opportunity to run heads-up against one of the CJ's (Semi-finals in class, LVMS) and THAT is when you realize how very wrong the situation is. The CJ had a R/T that started with a 3, hit the brakes at the thousand foot, TWICE, and still ran a 10.02!! It made my 10.36 look totally inadequate.

The two CJ drivers showed a complete lack of "Sportsmanship" when they refused to accept the standard method of pairing up cars. They wanted an all Ford final, we wanted a Camaro vs Ford final. We knew we were going to get our asses kicked, but it would have been fun. (Remember fun? Isn't that why we're here?)

I hope to pair up with them in regular eliminations the future. I don't believe either of them can cut a light.

My 2-cents

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

>>>"Bill, the Hemis are not "segregated" from the rest of the Eliminator. If they were, then Bucky couldn't have won SS last month."

No, in the Eliminator, they're not segregated, but in class, they are. You can't win SS/AH (CLASS) with a Ford or a Chevy.

I think their case is an anomaly; no one ever built a car in their class that could outrun them. Only makes sense to put them in their own class, for that reason, alone.

That may not be the case with the Mustangs; the Dodges are knocking on their door, and should improve with some track time. Who knows what the supercharged LS-Corvette motor that is going (supposedly) into the 2011 Z-28, will run....

I think all these cars could fit into a 7-pound AAA/S class without having to make a separate class just for certain cars. A shootout might be forthcoming, yes, but that's show-biz; a whole different deal.

Just my 2-cents, again...

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

I'd say 6 pounds would be closer, but then you would have to deal with the problem of 9" tires going low 9s. They just need to go to super stock in my opinion.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

I'll repeat myself one more time. Then again, with my short term memory loss from years of Nitro Racing, I may repeat it again. Or did I already say that? ...(laughing) ... We ALL know there is no STOCK in Stock Racing Anymore. However, if a car was never titled, has no vin numbers, could never have been licensed to drive on the street and drivin' home from the dealer, It's A SUPER STOCK CAR ONLY. I don't care how many were built or who built them. For a car to be a stocker, you should be able to have purchased the car off the show room floor at the dealer and drive it home. Period End. If the "powers- to- be", along with the manufactures, feel the need to continue this BS, then, the PURPOSE BUILT CARS should have their own class. This needs to be addressed RIGHT NOW !! Or when the Drag Pac Challenger filters down into the lower classes you'll hear whinning like you've never thought possible.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

That's just not gonna happen. Do the math, those car's would be 400 pounds heavy for a six pound break. And BTW, they're in Superstock!

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

If they were factored what they should be they could fit in a 6 lbs/hp easily. At 500 hp and 6 lbs/hp that would be 3170? And I mean they should be in Superstock ONLY.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Thought to ponder: a W/SA Pinto Vs. any one of the new AA/SA 2008, 140-mph Mustangs.

Finish line MPH disparity = SIXTY MPH~ or, more...

Is that even SAFE?

I realize Comp may be even worse...

But, is it time to split this thing at, say, F Stock, and welcome in the new JUNIOR STOCK (G thru W), in the interest of finish-line safety?

Just a thought...

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Good idea but NHRA would cut the win money in the upper classes in half at the min. The Jr. racers would get a trophy and a swift kick in the *****.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

S/S isn't any better. Compare SS/AM running against a SS/P or SS/PA and you get almost a 60 MPH difference too.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Bracket racing on any Sunday, at any track on the planet, has the same mph disparity. That's why they won't insure race cars in competition. They call it a high risk sport. I've been passed in the lights by a 200 mph dragster, in my 125 mph Mustang.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

In regards to us being unsportsmanlike I would like to comment on that. When the semifinals of class came around the two chevy competitors came up to us and told us (Brent and I) were going to run each other and they ( Mr Belden and the other competitor) were going to run each other. So if anyone was dictating who was going to run who it was them not us. I responded by saying that didnt seem right and suggested using a ladder, drawing numbers, or flipping coins. Nobody objected so we drew numbers. I drew a 2, Brent drew a 1 so therefore I ran a Chevy and so did Brent. We did not bully anyone into racing us it was total luck of the draw we could of run each other just as easily. Also I recall in a previous post before Indy that there was no accepted method for pairing cars in class it is however the competitors in that class that decide how to do it and i've noticed that even these methods change from round to round. So if there is a common practice please let us know so that we dont make a mistake again.

My 2 cents worth

Chad Holzman

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

I think the new iron in town is great. I love the LS-1 F-body Camaros and Firebirds, the late model LS-2 GTO's, the Zo6 Corvettes, The Drag-Pak Challengers, AND these new rocket CJ's from Ford.....awesome engineering, technology and craftsmanship...I say welcome to the new world of drag racing. Surely it's about time the 40-50 yr. old stuff had some company out there anyway. Make some intelligent necessary changes to classes, and let everyone have a go at it.....otherwise, this sport will be dead and gone alot sooner than we all think....and they'll be jamming more of those those fart-can jamboree cars down our throats, maybe even powering them with acorns and pine cones.....again, my 2 cents... WJ:)

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

Wow this post was at 12:50 PM and it's 4:50 and no one is going to comment?He seems to have spelled it out in black and white for all to see.

Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas
 

You had me up until this point. Your thinking in the earlier part of your post applies to those "fart-can jamboree cars" as well. We all love well built race cars. Forced induction, n/a, fwd, rwd, awd, 4 cyl, 8cyl should not matter. Thinking any differently about "fart-can jamboree cars" is as senseless as racism.

I agree with you however on one part. Intelligent decisions on how to class these diverse crowd of cars would go a long way. Until then, I will race in whatever class I fit the rules for.