Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

In no way am I saying that the modified indexes are not soft, but if you look at the cars that run fast in those classes, they have owners who spent enough money on them to run 1.20+ under with any decent combination (Guys like Arnie Martel, Jimmy DeFrank, James Caro, etc.). However, there are a lot of guys who run the modified classes that don't have cars that can run fast enough to be competitive in comp, and where would they go? It takes a fortune to run comp nowadays. In my opinion, the indexes for some of the classes (specifically the lower modified classes, modified stock classes, and modified experimental classes) need to be lowered based off their comp counterparts, for the ones that have them, but I think it would hurt the car count in Super Stock too much.

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

Being a beginner in this super stock thing....I wouldn't mind the faster cars out of super stock.....then ours would be the faster car more often....but given the current economic situation...any rule changes are not good...they just cost money....and nobody wants that....

I have always been a bracket racer mostly in s/g and s/c....but this class thing is a lot of fun....it consumes you....its all we think about...its a riot...and I have a 170 mph super gas car...............(we have a new challenger going together...SS/HA)

and for the guy that said the CJ's need a hit....in case nobody noticed...Brian Oakes and his awesome big block 69 camaro...handed our butt to us...that car is every bit as fast as we are........maybe someday we will get to run him....but until then we can verbally jab on the internet...(all in fun)......you don't do that bracket racing....

.....not to mention several rules added to the rule book for us...nice...spend more money

so leave the rules alone......

I like the little grey mustang with the hoodscoop anyway....

Rock Haas
SS/DA 08 CJ

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

Why is everyone wanting to throw rocks at the hood scoop cars?? Is it just because of the looks and wanting SS to get back to it's roots or does every one just THINK because it has a hood scoop it's faster? I don't have a qualifying sheet in front of me, but if you were to take a sheet and block out the people that can spend big money, where would most of the modified cars fall on that list? The scoop car is NOT always, automatically the faster car. The honest reason why I have one is because I don't want to be subjected to tearing down like the true SS and GT cars have to and I certainly don't have the money to go run comp. So I guess I would be one of the ones that would just quit and I assume there are several out there just like me. Then, like Beard said, you've not helped comp at all and in the end you've just hurt the SS count. I remember counting one time and assuming everyone could run one second under the index (I can not by the way) SS/CS was just barely in the quickest half. It would also be interesting to see how big of a percentage of the true SS and GT cars run around one second under versus how many of the modified cars can do the same. OK, go ahead and beat me up....

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

Bpotts : there is or was a strong rumor going around that at one time the possibility that NHRA was thinking about moving the modified cars in Super Stock to Comp to increase the car count in Comp > Nothing more nothing less

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

I'm the guy that said the CJ's need a hit but I was referring to the Stockers. I should have specified. As for this comment , "Being a beginner in this super stock thing....I wouldn't mind the faster cars out of super stock.....then ours would be the faster car more often...."
I just don't understand why you and others think that other people should be punished or moved into another class just so you can have an easier time of it. Didn't you know that the Modified cars were in Super Stock when you built your car? As I said before I am a Ford Man and I'm glad to see the new CJ's involved but I don't like it when people start trying to change the class just to fit them better.

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

Agree 100%

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

people who spell brian wrong must also run comp, if he is a twin.

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

IMO, Comp is unique for a few reasons, and those are directly affecting the car counts. First is the money it costs to run it. I do it out of my own pocket, but many of the guys are business owners and we all know how the economy is affecting everyone right now. The second part may be class structuring. So many new ones in recent years and soft indexes to start, many of the lower qualified cars just parked from being beat up or not even qualifying. And maybe the last thing that chases alot of people off is maintenance and the effort to run one. It takes alot of time and patience to run a car in Comp, especially ones like mine or some of the oddball combos. It's not a make a pass and have a hot dog category, and you need crew help.
I think it would be a real reality check going from SS to Comp. Lets face it, once you qualify in SS, it becomes a bracket race, unless you have a heads up. So essentially, you don't need to have the best parts and keep up on constantly changing technology to win. Not so in Comp. It may seem attractive to be able to put a SS/Mod car in Comp, but when the factors above come into play, that's where the party ends. It's the only class I've ever raced in, never even bracket raced, made my 1st runs in the class I run now. I've seen many people come and go, and unfortunately more are going right now. Hopefully the trend reverses.

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

Don : good posts so what is the answer for comp if there really is a problem ? or am i just wrong about comp being in trouble ? i really like comp and other than Super Stock and Stock i watch comp by the way

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

LOL Hey Rock i know ya have alot more in that CJ LOL, the tongue was hanging out of that 427 on that run,anyway who had the Mustang at Rockingham testing a couple of weeks ago, was it RED or Silver, going 8.8 something LOL ,Brian

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

John Stock, you hit the nail on the head For me anyway, Pump, Weigh, you're good. I really love racing, however after leaning over fenders all week pulling a head or a rod and piston on my race car isn't at the top of my list. I admire all those who chose to do it and anyone who knows me is aware I'm not afraid to work. For me racing is like a mini vacation, I'll work on my junk if I have to, but I prefer to do my work in the shop. Hey if I could afford to run Comp I'd probably do so but it's just too far out there for me. I think if you look at the fastest scoop cars you'll see for the most part these are the guys who have the funds and other resourses to have a fast ride in any configuration. Joe

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

to you comp guys, my hats off to you. you are good at what you do. it does take hardwork to run in there. i am a little to old to get that interested in it, but my partner in crime steve thompson will work that hard if we decide to get serious. no threat to you guys, but you would see us improve as the year goes on.first time out at test and tune at eddeville went 5.86, 119.90 1/8 on 5.91 G/SM. not great but beats a kick in the ***. my question is why does comp not have 1 or 2 classes with spec heads and limited mods to bring the car count back up. also, brian potts, how are you doing? we just 2 months ago got the cobalt to 60 ft. with your camaro, with the same exact drivetrain it went 1 hundreth quicker.

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

There should be no hood scoops allowed is ss!!! Unless.... They came from the factory that way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...................

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

It's really hard to say what an end all answer would be. It's such a unique class. Minimizing costs and increasing the purse might help, but I won't hold my breath for those, especially the latter. I can't imagine it going away, yet I know of at least 4 or 5 more cars that won't be in comp anymore. I even questioned myself as far as building a new one after my old one got wrecked. Here in D1 car counts are still decent in comp but not what they used to be. I've been at a few races not too many years ago where we had 50+.
On another note, what would happen to Pro Stock if Comp went away? Comp has been a natural stepping stone for a good percentage of guys in that class.

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

Jim Storms, so what about the GT cars. When did they build a rear wheel drive Escort or Cobalt or Avenger or G5 ? When was a V-8 available in these cars? Careful what you wish for......Joe We need to face it FWD conversion cars changed the complexion of S/S for better or worse, I personally like them. Without some of these new cars and classes S/S would be pretty slim on car counts. IMO

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

In 1999, NHRA proposed several new "entry level" classes for Comp that were designed to be somewhat affordable. The idea was quickly shot down as they didn't think it was fair that someone could compete in Comp on a much smaller budget than everyone else.

Virtually at the same time, Billy Nees had an idea for a new heads-up class that would have taken a huge amount of the development expense out of racing. The idea could have also been applied to Comp and in the long-term reduce expenditures for everyone. I and others did extensive computer modeling on the concept, and it worked amazingly well. It made too much sense to actually implement, though. :rolleyes: Since it was his concept, I'll allow him to spill the beans if he so chooses.

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

both good concepts michael, i remember the 1999 class concept, and wondered what happened to it. they will eventually have to do something or it will price itself out. i would not care what head or mods they allow, just stick with one and go. this (get the latest head trick) has got to stop.

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

Michael, basically "our" idea was pushed aside by what became Top Dragster and Top Sportsman. I have resigned myself to the fact that NHRA and it's Sportsman Racers do not want an "affordable" way to go racing and they don't have room for any more Eliminators. NHRA wants us to pump as much money into its coffers(and those of its sponsors that it no longer has)and that's all there is to it.
If you want to waste your time starting a new thread on the subject, I will respond and add to it.

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

Please do.....Id like to hear about it. Ya never know what might be on the horizon.

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

I'd like to hear about this new class idea also. Anything like a "Spec" head class? Door slammer hopefully.

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

Joe,
The whole point here was that the modified cars can run comp and could be moved to comp to save the class from dying. Your comparison of the GT front wheel drive conversions really doesn't apply to what Don brought up. How many GT cars run 150+mph? Plus, none of them fit into a comp class.....which the Modified, Modified Stock and Experimental (X) Class cars do.

Super Stock as a class would not be hurt if these cars were put into comp. I personally don't think this will happen, but if it did it would be good for Comp. How many races did you see a full Comp field this year??? How about Super Stock? I'm sure the SS fields would have filled up even without the modified cars!!

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

"no one read into this post"?? lmao

I guess its really easy to sit on ones ever widening butt and lobby for a rule change that "supposedly" helps out another class, and also conviently benefits ones self, all at no cost to ones self, but at a cost of literally tens of thousands of dollars to a fellow competitor whom several of which probably don't have pockets any deeper than your own irregardless of the economy. And I realize that it seems it was done tongue in cheek, to possibly "rev up the troops" so you can have a laugh at someone elses expense or whatever it takes for you to get your jollies?.. But all kiding aside I personally have had a class eliminated and was left with thousands of dollars in parts and years of effort invested somewhat down the drain. And after spending $30,000 additional costs to "re-tool" ended up in Super Stock because thats a class "they" said I could transition too. To now have to "transition again" would be really unacceptable. Wouldn't it be alot more sensible and decent for you to just invest in your program to make your car faster or more consistent or generally more competitive than to offer up my wages? Honestly I think your petition is quite irresponsible and selfish. And I personally am not laughing anymore..

Have a good day and best of luck to you in 2010

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

It seems to me that most of you guys that think the "scoop cars" should or could be moved into Comp are assuming we would go. I personally would have to quit before I started. Maybe someday I can afford to be competitive in Comp but right now I don't have any desire to be an "also run". IF anything needs to be done to move the scoop cars out of SS then I think the NHRA should just re-instate Modified Eliminator but with indexes and dial-ins. Oh wait, that is what SS is. You guys that bitch about the horrible scoop cars ruining SS are full of it. As has been stated by others, when did a FRONT wheel drive Cobalt or GXP or Escort or any other FRONT wheel drive car ever come as REAR wheel drive with a V8? As far as I'm concerned Stock Eliminator is the new Super Stock and Super Stock is the new Modified. Things will never go back to what some of you want it too and the sooner that is realized the easier it will be for all of us. If it is SO reasonable to expect the scoop cars to JUST move into Comp than why is it any less reasonable to tell the guys that are bitching about having to run a 150plus mph car in SS to JUST build a faster car? What is the difference?

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

how about leaving them in superstock, but make the rule say you can only run a hood that came from the factory?

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

I don't have anything to do with this but I say leave stuff alone.Pretty much any Mod car could run comp with engine-trans changes so most likely if those guys wanted or could afford comp they would be running it already. Comp car counts are'nt low because of lack of cars or lack of interest I'd say it would be lack of cash comp is high dollar and I would race it at the drop of a hat if I had the money to do it and I'm sure this forum is full of Comp wannabes just like me.
Mike Taylor3601

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

Why? The cars will still go 150 plus so what would that change? My engine will not allow the carb to be under the flat hood unless I have someone make a horrible low profile intake and that kind of defeats the purpose of having a Modified. and it will still go 150. Would a 8 in. cowl hood make anyone feel better? Just leave it alone. It's NOT broke. If the original idea is to get more cars in Comp then make a couple classes in Comp that are more affordable. Of course "affordable" is a relative term in Comp. Maybe a "spec" head or engine class. Then we can all spend a ton of money trying to cheat........................

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

But all kiding aside I personally have had a class eliminated and was left with thousands of dollars in parts and years of effort invested somewhat down the drain.

This isn't the first time nor will it be the last time this has happened in NHRA Modified Elmin, Pro Stock Truck, Import Series and just reading the Smoke Signals out of Calif soon COMP! In IHRA Super modified, Factory Exp. and modified. It will happen again and it affect a lot of racers. so quit Crying about it!!!
JMPO

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

As long as people post irresponsible posts, I'll have to defend myself so p.o.

jmho

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

This thread really seems to be getting out of hand. Me, I've got a scoop car because it fits my budget and the class appeals to me . Without the help of a few people Donn Rhode @ Precision Engines and Mike Lyons I probably wouldn't be out there racing. I, like many require some help with my racing and it's nice to have some people whos knowledge helps me be more competitive. There are as many varying view points on this as there are racers, not everyone is going to be happy about what ever rules or classes are there are but that doesn't change the fact that .......there are classes in the rule book that allow S/S cars to have a hood scoop like it or not. the S/S guys need to worry about S/S and let the Comp guys worry about their class.IMO...Joe

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

don i have a car that i am trying to run in both classes, comp does not run everywhere nor does super stock,instead of having two race cars i chose to have a car that will fit in two seperate catagories running one engine combo and only minor weight change (ss/dm-g/sma).
did you ever ask any s/s modified car owners why the chose "hood scoop cars" in s/s, i bet everyone you ask has the same answer and it is not soft indexes, the reason my father and i built the avenger was to eliminate the tear down bull *****, check the carbs and pump it! pass go collect $200.00!!!!
after years of tearing hemi's apart at the track and at home and everywhere else owning a modified car is a walk in the park, maintenence is no more than enyone else should be doing.

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

Ditto

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

You are exactly correct!!! That is why if you knew me at all ???? you would see that i now have a 70 Challenger!!!!. GT cars do not have hood scoops...thank you very much..

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

Jim, you're welcome. My point is I;m unsure why some think just because a S/S car has a hood scoop it's somehow less of a S/S car. Is it just the scoop? Is it the supposed big MPH? None of these arguments hold water. The big MPH, heck my buddy Tony Depillo nearly spins me around with his SS/B Honkin Hemi, of course it does have a "factory" hood scoop. I think we can all agree we will NEVER all agree. You're right I don't know you and we disagree on some things .... but I'd be happy to meet you if the oppritunity ever comes up.Joe

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

As Worner said!! most of the cars with scoops are comp cars... or at least they have comp motors hows that...its just the easy way out of a teardown....It realy don't matter to me anyway it's all a bracket race after we all qualify anyway write?

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

that is exactly correct! WINNER "the easy way out of tear down" you guys are starting to get it, that is why i have a modified car less nhra enhancement to deal with.... no pouring heads, cc's to deal with, compression ratio to worry about , valve sizes etc. but yet i still get to run the class i love.. oh by the way the modified stuff does not cost anymore and in some instances less than conventional s/s engines.

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

Im not against any combo here!. everyone has there preference in the brand or type of engine combo they choose or like to run..but the whole point was!! HOOD SCOOPS???.keep the modified classes take the hood scoops off!!! if im not mistaken here isn't that what superstock & stock are based on when it comes down to it!!! whos legal and who's not?? maybe we should have modified cars in stock as well... ???

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

then what do you do about factory s/s cars with hood scoops? hey im for it i hate the scoop on my car, i have been plotting out a big cowl bulge hood to fit over the carb and intake.

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

That is what my orginal post was!!! if it was not factory,,, then it shouldn't be there.....

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

I want a scoop for my stocker LOL so for modified cars that run superstock if u cant run comp maybe you should run super gas or super comp and for the guys that do it so u dont have to tear down GET THE F**K OUT OF THE CLASS if u dont want to tear down you should tear down just like the rest next we have pro stock cars running in superstock and they have even been tear down to oww wate they not to lazey to work on there cars

Re: Hood Scoops to Comp
 

Change the intake manifold rules and make them keep the carbs UNDER the OEM factory type hoods. They can be lite wt. fiberglass or whatever but make them look stock. Let them use 8 each 4500 dominators or a blower if they want but keep it all under the stock appearing hoods. Those tall bulged hood scoops look like s##t.