Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

IF a new blown Mustang had been there and entered in Pomona and it didnt red light John Shaul would not have had a chance in a heads up run. John was fast but he was also very lucky that none showed up. The problem is the new cars (Fords and Dodge) have a soft HP factor and NHRA is buying the BS. It takes forever to get it right because of the ineffective AHFS and games people play on the track.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Agreed. I have seen, with my own eyes, some of these new cars dialed more than 1.4 under at a combo race in bracket mode. And they're doing that with engines that have not even been "built" to "blueprinted stocker specs", and in fact have never even been opened up.

We're not talking about one or two cars (that have been thrashed on for twenty years) out of twenty like it/them in the country that could run 1.4 under once, and then not be able to do it after the HP hit, we're talking about a dozen or so cars out of twenty in the country that could not only run 1.4 under, but could do it at least once or twice more after the HP hit, and probably still not have to go into the engine to continue to run 1.2 under.

Anyone who thinks things like that are going to help Stock or Super Stock isn't thinking too clearly.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Before the advent of these purpose built race cars with their purpose built crate motors stock eliminator has always been cars that could be bought at a dealer, liscensed and driven home. I don't care if it was an L-88 Corvette it was street legal. These cars are no more stock eliminator cars than a 37 chevy super gas car. A stroke of the pen changed all that. What's basically been the same for more than 40 years get's changed without input from racers or much if any thought to what the long term consequences are. If you all think taking 3 tenths off the indexes will hurt car counts, wait till these crate motor cars are in every class from AA to J. NHRA let's them in with bogus factors with no regard to us, their customers , who have been doing this for 30 years or more.

I truly think this will have a long term detrimental effect on stock and super stock.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

I agree 1000%. They should ALL be Super stock cars and have the HP factors looked at ASAP without waiting 2 or 3 years or more for the AHFS to do it.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

I couldnt agree with you more Evan, and to add to that Jimmy Defrank has one of the most feared cars in Stock eliminator, as far as being fast.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

I said EXACTLY the same thing almost a year ago Greg. They didn't hear me then and they won't hear you now! They won't care till one shows up in their neighborhood!

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Can someone tell me what the difference is between a IHRA crate motor and an NHRA never been street legal motor?

Like are Wavy Lays different than Ruffles? Or are they both non stock potatoe chips?.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

I seriously doubt anyone with a new Cobra Jet or a new Drag Pack Challenger is the least bit afraid of Jimmy DeFrank or John Shaul. I don't think they really have much fear of the Sorensons, either.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

its like the terminator movies. the only one who can kill a terminator, is another terminator.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

The L-88 is not the best example. Chevrolet built those cars for the track and did their best to steer them in that direction.


That is absurd. These cars are what you get if you do away with all the stuff that the Feds have mandated over the last 40 years.


The last time that I looked, a lot of the guys involved in these cars have been Class racing for quite some time.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Kevin and Evan, You cant say that about Shaul there were no CJs at that race for him to run. The out come would be who did not red light, we know what car would have won headsup. The old cars are only in the mix when no CJs show up and as good as the DeFrank car is he could not out run them either.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Bob, I can say that. You proved my point: There were no CJs or Dodges because there are not that many of them racing, therefore, if they are not racing, how can they ruin the sport? You can say "what if" all you want, but the fact is that Shaul won in a '64 model year vehicle. National Dragster did not report that Shaul won because no CJs showed up. You speculate all you want, but the fact is that an old car won and they will continue to win.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Bob, you could say that at any race, its not always the fastest car in the class that wins (the eliminator) and that has nothing to do with late model CJ'S or Challengers, etc.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Evan, ummm, I just looked at my trusty Nitro Joes and 7 08 Mustangs made runs in AA/SA this year and only 6 63, 64 Max Wedges. And seeing as you are talking about AA.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

I am talking in general terms, as it could relate to any class. My point is that regardless of how fast any one car is, or may be, Shaul won the race. That is the fact I was referring to. It is not opinion or theory, it is fact. We don't race on paper so it's not right to say this guy or that combo will always win and/or ruin a class until it happens. So far, it has not happened.

For the record, my vote was to move the triggers and leave the indexes alone.

Evan

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Last year it was "Oh Shucky Darn them cars ain't that fast" and now it is "Oh shucky Darn there ain't that many of them out there." And next year it will be......

It's only human nature to attempt to avoid the consequences of our actions but there are times when those consequences will come back and bite ya right in the backside. And the old dog is getting close.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Bobby DiDomenico, The difference between IHRA crate motors and NHRA new mopar and mustang is electronic`s, they can hook up there laptop computer to change a lot things, maybe they need to change back to fuel injection and carb. class`s in NHRA. Tom

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

I just wish the new factory cars were in some kind of FX class, racing each other (IN HEADS UP SITUATIONS) for three years until the HP factors get worked out. Kind of like the FI cars were when they first came out. They could have what ever dial in (index) and factored HP they want.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Sure, "Vintage" for the carbs .... They arent producing any cars in the US with carbs on them from the factory that I am aware of, I "think" the last one even imported was Korean (kia ?)

I was dissapointed when I first started WERA vintage with a motorcycle, but oh well, it kept the playing field level for the antiques.

The present, and the future is FI period.....a carb will never see the light of day on a mass produced street car again. That for lack of you having it or not is a stock car now, so is electronic controlled shifts.

I (and Im NOT saying you are saying this and sort of agree in principal with you) I think that an electonic fuel injected car with electronic controlled transmission represents a STOCK car now a days, the rest are quite honestly antiques, and growing more an more so with every passing year no matter how beloved they are, I saw the same thing happen in motorcycles, and there came a point where 2 strokes got nixed from a lot of classes, that was sad, so I got into "Vintage" racing where my iron was still competitive, can I run a new GSXR ? Hell no , even with the power the chassis isnt there on the old iron, it just is whats representitive of stock NOW......

My worthless 1 1/2 cents....

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Maybe NHRA and IHRA should go back to pre electronic FI days like NASCAR rules. NOTHING newer allowed unless it has a carb, and no computer like the early SS/GT cars....lol. Now this should get you fired up.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

It dosent get me fired up, and if there is a draw for a class like that for the spectators and the racers then maybe it makes sense, but its not STOCK.

I think its kinda funny that the many of the cars running competitive stock out there are as old as I am, there are obvious reasons, the "muscle car era" the factory package cars from days gone by etc.

Its really been a HUGE gap that has taken Detroit 35 friggin years to catch up, EPA, Customer Demand, etc....I mean when was the last 425 crank HP Dodge out there like the SRT8 ? Or Camaro, or Mustang, 1970 ?

But now those DO represent stock cars....

I believe there is a slot for everyone in racing , it dosent mean its the class they think they should be in.....

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

I case you havent looked lately but STOCK isnt STOCK anyway. Just look at the new Dodge Challengers, Ford Mustangs BOTH without EPA certification and ya cant tag and register them for the street. Stock hasnt been STOCK eliminator for years. Neither is Super Stock a S/S catagory anymore. Its more like Pro Stock of the early 70's. Maybe NHRA should just change the names of the eliminators to Super Pro and Pro?

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

I have been reading this thread with interest.

Can anyone update me on the latest on Ford's 352 (8.2 based) and 428 (351W based) engines as the OP was referring to ? Have they been run in competition yet ?

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Stock isn't stock. I am sorry but I have a stock carb,intake head castings, wheelbase,hood(with no scoop) trunk,doors rotating assembly that is the same as it was in 1975, (except we get after market parts to keep from braking parts) . Stock front seats,I even have a stock driveshaft. They sold my car at the dealer, and it has taken years to make it run like it does. As for those who can only make underfactored cars run under the index, so be it. I am proud off what I have done to make my car run fast.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

I understand that Tom,

Was just funnin' that neither of them came that way street legal from the factory so why do folks bad mouth IHRA?

Since there is no where near 50 or 100 of each of these cars built, that would seem to make the Buick Stage 2 455 and some Pontiac over the counter items open for approval right? Just wait till they take that little 600 cfm carb off the 351C and add a 780. ;-)

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Amen! You should be proud of what you've done!

Greg

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Since they were actually sold at the GM dealers for street use, EPA certs and all, and the minimum production run no longer exists, maybe they will let the '97 SLP LT4 Pontiac Firehawks run SS. Just wishing.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

By that same token, the 67 L-88 Corvette should be legal as well. :eek:

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

You ready to start bangin' gears?

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

I always did un til this time around. Last summer I made a pass in a stick car. Like riding a bikd. The Jerico shifts nicer than the old Doug Nash boxes. I thought you could buy an automatic Firehawk, am I wrong? Would be nothing new. :D

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

For 2013 the 352" SBF has been increased to a 363" with a bigger bore of 4.125. Being this engine is listed for S/Stock as well; can it be installed in any other Ford body for a SS/GT build ?

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

I honestly don't think it matters what engine the new cars have....fuel injected cars should have their own class again. What difference does it make if stock has 100 different classes, with cars having to run combos for class why should NHRA care but at least it would be carbs vs carbs and FI vs FI. Indy and any other class race should be broken up into 3 calls to the lanes...
1. Factory Super Cars
2. All other Fuel Injected Cars
3. Carb Cars
and for eliminations bring your shoe polish.

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Tony 5022,
ya need to relax a bit, all of the current BS is not a carb and EFI issue, I believe it goes way, WAY deeper than that!!
Just say'in

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Not wanting a political rant, simply asking if the 363" can be installed in anything other than a 2013 Mustang for a SS/GT build

Re: FORD, 5 NEW S/SS Engines
 

Yes you can. Mark Nowicki from Mich has a 5.9 DragPak motor in his Avenger for GT/EA-FA-GA. So does Michael Beard in his Volare. I think Nick Morris from KY has a 'new' 352 in his '96 Mustang for GT/FA. And so on. So, yes, a new CobraJet (or COPO or DragPak) motor can run GT in another year car. But, be wary of the high-horsepower motors for GT. GT/A and GT/AA are 8.00-8.49 pound classes (same as SS/E and SS/EA). Meaning some cars in GT will be pretty heavy. So, a 330 cid, 425 hp CJ motor rated 425 for GT (when they hit the horsepower on, say, Rock Haas' SS/DA '08 Mustang, it doesn't affect the GT rating, and vice versa) will have to weigh 3,570. Basically the same as, say, an '89 Camaro with a '71 454/425 motor, so nit a huge deal--yet. But once people start hitting the HP in GT, we could soon see 3,800 pound (or heavier) GT/AA cars. Quite a lot, compared to some smaller motored, late model FWD conversion cars that can get to 3,100 pounds (or less) for GT/AA.