Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

How about NHRA gets a moble chassis dyno and they pick and chose cars to put on the chassis dyno when a cars on its way back up the return road and start factoring all combos by there "real" hp. Everybody wants to bitch about everything let take the BS out of it and just show everybodys hand.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Then the CJ's wouldn't be in Stock!

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Well Alan it's not 1969, sorry. How many parts do you think dealers will sell for those cars (zero)? I still can't understand you guys, auto companies have had a big influence on stock and superstock for 30 plus years when it comes to hp rating’s and the parts they come with. There are alot of 1980’s Oldsmobile’s with parts and factors that are bogus. It would be cool to see these old cars in stk and ss but it won’t bring any new people into our sport. If you look at our sport it’s mostly males over 45 right now. While that is great right now what will happen in less then 20 years? How many people race more then 5 races when they reach the age of 65 plus? I still see these people at the track but watching. Just step back and count how many people in the last five years have stop racing or are no longer with us in stk or ss. We need all the help we can get to keep our sport alive. And I feel that things like this will help our class over time.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

There is nothing on the DP Challenger I cant walk right into the dealer we bought the car from 4 doors down and order, nothing I can think of , everything has a Chrysler part number and its all in their database, and they get it.

I got my SFI Flexplate there, my spare high flow injectors, gaskets, all kinds of crap with more to come, the price is a little higher than I could "hunt" for maybe 5-10% but they get the stuff in like 2 days, and I just pick it up.

Just my 2cents....at this rate Im going to go broke...of throwing my 2 cents in that is...

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Can I go to that dealer and buy a challenger off the lot with the same motor that is in the DP cars?

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyR0cfqEqcA

620 at the wheels.
I don't make that at the crank.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

David:
The silence is deafening...
Ouch!

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

What year it is has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Sure, there have been poorly factored cars in Stock before. Is that a valid excuse to do it again? If someone robs your house, does that make it okay for the next ******* to rob it?

Screwing the current participants of the sport by bringing in ringers and then making it possible for them to avoid being correctly factored doesn't sound like a real good way to bring in new participants.

I don't think that many people under 45 can afford $75K for a car plus another $15K or so to make it work, so I doubt the ringers will bring in that many new participants, especially young participants.

This little rewrite of the rule book completely changes the character of NHRA Stock Eliminator. Stock and Super Stock are not being "saved" by this, they're being changed. And not necessarily for the better.

Sorry Charlie, the rest of us are not buying it.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Neither do we. And we're at only 4HP less than the recently refactored Cobra Jets that do.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

That dyno is out of calibration.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Which one? Are you sure? Because the dyno numbers sure match the performance so far.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Yeah you're talking about a speed shop that make the dyno read what ever they want by a stroke of a few keys. Look customer your car came in making 500 hp and now it makes 600 hp and all we did was change the tune (and the DA on the dyno) and look we made you 100 hp more. BTW here's your bill for $1,000 have a good day.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

$100,000 to build a new cj is a little high. And the year has everything to do with it you just don't get it. As far as dyno numbers go what do you think a good LS1 makes for power? I know for a fact some LS1 make over 535hp and there rated at 373hp. If the cj makes somewhere around600hp and is rated at 435hp it's really not that far out of line.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

The Cobra Jet makes over 700HP at the flywheel.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Really? Gee, I know nothing about dynos, I've only been operating them for 20 years or so.

You can make a dyno lie, but it is hard to fool the clocks at a drag strip.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

So basically you are saying JDM has no integrity and they lie to there customers? Is that your stance on JDM?

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Before all is said and done all of you are going to end up with very EXPENSIVE "Door Stops and Flower Pots".

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

No argument here. But, each of the cars that you have mentioned was built with Stock Eliminator in mind. They also conformed to the rules of the day. History tells that there was a lot more interest in Stock back then. Almost every local track ran trophy races for Stock.


The way that the Challenger/Mustang combos are being introduced I don't see why they couldn't allow the L-88. It wouldn't bother me one bit.


I think that Roush has actually done all the work that the Feds require to make those cars legal just like SLP did with the Firehawks. Why can't you run an L72 Yenko? The Motion cars were pretty much built to order cars, so I can't see how they can be part of this conversation.


I really can't agree with this statement. The new factory cars are being built to fit the "current" NHRA rules. Just like all those cars that you mentioned earlier. In 1969 you could drive your car out of the dealer lot, do minimal work, and be competetive at local events. That is not the case today. I am glad that these cars take a lot of waste out of buying/building a new Stocker.


My understanding on this one is that it was entirely a marketing deal for GM. I have two of these cars. I have upgraded the front end on both cars, because I can. But, I really don't know why the NHRA allowed it. Nothing would be gained by fixing this.


I have said in the past that I question the power plant choices allowed. But if this is the direction that Stock is going, I will be following it. It would be a shame to miss being a part of the biggest factory involvement in 40 years.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

You can race a Yenko 69 L-72 Camaro or Chevelle. But not a 67 or 68 Yenko L-72 Camaro. You can race a 70 LT-1 Camaro or Corvette, but you can't race a Yenko LT-1 Nova. The point being you can now race what amounts to a crate motor car built by a tuner that doesn't even have to meet a minimum sales number, where before there were rules in place specifically to keep such cars (Yenko cars, and Baldwin/Motion cars) OUT of Stock, and even Super Stock.

You can't race a 67 L-88 Corvette, at least not as anything other than a SS/GT car, and yet it is absolutely no further from a real showroom car than a new Challenger Drag Pack car, in fact it is closer, far closer.

Now all of that is legal, and expensive existing cars of current racers are not only being rendered obsolete and uncompetitive, but the means of recovering some sort of ability to compete is being almost completely removed. If this is the way Stock is going, it is going to die. I suppose if you can get excited about being a part of that "history", more power to you.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

I am not at all opposed to OEM participation, in fact, the opposite is true.

But I am diametrically opposed to NHRA and OEM's blatantly, obviously, and intentionally screwing everyone who does not buy one of the new cars. The class cannot stand it, and the racers cannot afford it.

And no, this is not "just like the original factory wars", because in this case NHRA is a knowing and willing accomplice colluding to screw over anyone not willing and able to just pony up for a brand new factory Stock Eliminator class killer. And in this economy, that is the vast majority of racers, because the vast majority could never afford to to it, even if they could sell their current car, which they can't, because even without the market being flooded, cars aren't selling, unless they're nearly given away, and a lot of them aren't selling even then. Imagine what cars would be worth if a large segment of racers began trying to sell them in order to build these new killer cars, if they could, or wanted to.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Alan do you even race stk? You should really spend more time working on your race car. If you spent as much time working on you race car as you did posting on class racer you would not haft to worry about the CJ's.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Alan-

Racers that are already competing in these "new" car classes, are already vested deep with the car they already own. If you were wanting to build a '69 Camaro for AA, A, or B, you would already know that to run with guys like Sorensen, Richard, Defrank, Shaul, to name a few, you would have to realize that you're going to spend over a $80,000 to field this car. This number might be light, unless you're going to do alot of the work yourself.
So the new car prices are not entirely out of line for a very fast, high class car. IMO

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Charlie, I'm sitting a season or two out, the car I drove last year was sold early this year, as the owner couldn't afford to keep two cars racing, even with me spending a little money on both cars. Doesn't mean I'm not working on a race car, or working towards another car for myself. I spent yesterday evening working on the AA car. Maybe you should learn more about me before you assume you know what I'm talking about or where I'm coming from. It doesn't matter how much I work on the AA car, it can't hope to run with the new cars. It doesn't stop me from working on a new engine, I was working on it this week. But no matter what I do to it, it can't run 9.20 in A trim or 9.0 in AA trim, at least not legally. If you spent nearly as much time trying to find out how it really works as you do trying to tell me what I do or don't know, you'd be able to offer a good argument. Just so you know, last year I ran at Bristol, Bowling Green twice, and Reynolds.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Sean,
I work on a AA car already, I know exactly what it costs, right down to the last penny. I work on nearly every single piece on the car. I don't do the body work, and I don't build the carburetor, although I can do either.

Thanks for making my point for me. Because the expensive AA Camaro I work on can't possibly hope to compete with the new cars. Even Sorenson can't run with them.

It's not that the prices are out of line for what you could have bought or paid to build one of the older cars. It's that the older cars are now unable to compete, so all of those cars lost some value, and can't compete against the new cars in a heads up race.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

I am 29 years old, and still consider myself a young man. I started at 12 years old in a jr. dragster, then straight to super pro, and now to stock. I have a G/SA Nova, but mostly due to time and money, stay very close to home when it comes to racing. I spent my own money buying this grandma car, turning it into a stocker, and racing the thing unsupported by anyone. For a 1972 Nova, its a rust free, no bondo, cream puff. Then you have racer X, Y, or Z. He goes out, buys a 2010 CJ, and spends an assload of money and now he automatically shoots to the top of the ladder. I will walk by that car, may even mention that I think it looks decent. However at the end of the day, I have an admiration for the guy that did himself, who can work on the car without his engine builder there, and doesn't need to call his injector specialists between runs to know what tune he should be running. How does that guy think he or his car is cool??? I wouldn't bat an eye to take Greg Hill's car, Larry Hills(even in pink), Arnetts camaro, or Craddick car that Alan works on in heartbeat over one of those things. If dad didn't like this **** so much, I would stick to strickly nostalgia races, because those people have a great time doing it. Almost like what I used to have when I started stocker racing.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Chad, you have a good car, and you're a good driver, guys like you are the future of Stock and Super Stock.

Also, Kevin Cradduck and I appreciate your comments on the orange AA/SA 69 Camaro. We hope to be faster next year, I am working on our program this winter. We're hunting a problem that has plagued us all year, while I'm also looking at places to find power, and get it to the ground. No, we cannot run with the Challengers or the CJ's, but we are not quitters.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Kenny, have you seen the rest of the specs. for these engines, ie: head castings, cam lift/duration, crank material, etc.? I checked NHRA, but they don't have these listed yet.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

That is a Dynojet dyno, you can't screw with the numbers as much as you seem to think. You can Mustang dynos, and some others, but no big changes with a Dynojet. The times those car run, that dyno is pretty close if not dead nuts. I don't think you should try to taint that shop's rep that way. They aren't known for that kind of crap.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Man you guys need to relax. I was trying to make a funny but you guy take everything to heart. I know Big Jimmy and Little Jimmy and they are straight up guys I respect what the they do for the Ford community. My point to all of this was to dyno every combo and factor them accordingly. Now everybody is bitching about the cj's but I wonder if the 396 combos and the LS combos were dyno'd in front of the world just how far off their factored hp would be from real world. Now I know that there's not a chevy guy out there that has the balls to run there combo all out -1.3ish under and then take it straight to the dyno for the world to see just how far off their factored hp is from their real world. So you guys just keep bitching cuz thats the easiest thing to do. Merry Christmas everyone.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Make a funny? I don't think anyone will buy that line. Tell you what, I'll bet you the CJ is about 100HP further off from their factor than any 396 or 427. And 1.3 under? The CJ will run 1.5 under, off the gas at 1000 feet. The Challenger will run 1.4 under in bracket mode, easily.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

I hope like hell the Chally can run farther under than that (not now but in the next few months)....(sorry for the ignorance "Bracket mode" ? I just looked at my tuning software and I dont see a checkbox for "Bracket Mode".....yes that was a joke...) If youre talking trim what weight/setup for "Bracket" ?... just trying to learn he be nice....

Cheers

Chris

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Bracket mode is a "soft" tune up, usually the engine is warmer, the timing may be lower, maybe a little extra ballast, launch RPM is lower, meaning you're set up to run consistent and go rounds, as opposed to getting the last little bit of ET out of it.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Check......

Does anyone know then the 2010 CJ's are shipping or will be trackside ? Any availability dates on these combos ?

Cheers

Chris

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

I know the body in whites will be shipping late winter, complete CJ's I have no idea. I would think someone that is motivated and has the right resources can get a car ready for Indy.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

INDY sounds good to me ken.

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Divisional..........................

See you at the races,
Wayne Kerr

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

Sean -- I was looking for you boys and Dad to show up with one of these CJ's --Get back to Dad's roots --so to speak !! Tell Brian to write the check --Seriously hope all is well with Dad

Re: CJ engine options and HP ratings.
 

We're working on it. Looks like next week Ford will start building them.