Re: Drooze
 

What valve springs are you using?

Re: Drooze
 

Right now weve got a rod hanging outta the pan....

Wow.sorry to hear it was a rod. been there done that dont feel to good... just remember it only parts they are replaceable. you health and time together is not... so dont sweat the small s***.

As for the trigger it was only one and it takes 2, I let off on my bye run and 2nd round eliminator and only went 57 under. I have it fixed for now, but we will see after Zmax

whats ur nex step???

Re: Drooze
 

Good ones :) .... secret squirrel stuff.....

Re: Drooze
 

Couldnt agree more I told the old man better there than half track.

I was yanking your chain about the review, Ive been waiting for a reason close :p

Next steps, buy my Stocker project here in Atlanta (Maybe Super Stocker) Drop it off, (I found something Ive been looking for for a while, dono what to do with it yet.....lots of options, Ill be looking to Art for advice on this one)

Head home and put a pair of 5.7's together at the rate were going next run Ill just build em by the six pack.

But weve got 2 5.7's at the shop to go together, and well....well set em each up a bit different. Different cam etc.

And hopefully be in shape for Charlotte (Pistons are the biggie) so Ive got to make some calls Monday and beg plead and throw money at the only people that have them.

Gots everything else.....

Probably order another trans, this was our "Phase 1" trans and planned to be our backup, so if Paul can build us one in time, but also thinking of going stick....that will be a bit of fun... as option 3....

That is Zeee Plan before Zeee Germans get here....(line from a movie)

Cheers

Chris

Enjoy.....

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4050/...87b41f285c.jpg

Re: Drooze
 

What about Joey's run at Phoenix?


-Toby

Re: Drooze
 

I was driving when the engine let go....

At least we broke it on the track and not on the dyno...

But if anyone needs instructions, I can probably show you how to take a race car and turn it into a paperweight in 3 feet of track.

It was more than a little disappointing, but as many said to me today, and has been said here too.... it is just an engine, and next time it will be better.

But meeting a lot of the guys from classracer and the other racers her was a great experience... I am now more determined than every to get this car back on the track again....

And as far as the comment about toyota tuners doing our car, well I can only say that our problems have not been due to anything fuel/spark related, and these guys are too good at what they do to even look elsewhere...They have had a hand in cars that win everywhere they go, including road race, land speed records and more... Jerry and his crew have been super. And eventually we will get this car sorted out and everyone will see what a megasquirt coupled to a new hemi can really do.

Tomorrow is another day, and as long as we have tomorrows, we will keep at it.

Thanks for all of the encouragement!

David
The New Hemi Guy
________
Satria

Re: Drooze
 

Re: Drooze
 

Proven parts > Secret Squirrel.

Re: Drooze
 

Nah....

Not a whole lot of room for secret squirrel stuff here, valve spring are one thing we HAVENT had a problem with....lol

Kinda hard to pic the "wrong part" when only 1 set of pistons, 1 set of rods, etc, etc are legal...

Re: Drooze
 

Then what's the problem? What is the issue with the EMI interference? What's it causing?

Honestly, the datalogs should tell you exactly what's happening, if they don't, something is seriously wrong.

Re: Drooze
 

Where's that BS you just deleted? How can you compare your 4 cyl. w/a brand new 6.1, boosted, eh???:rolleyes: WJ

Re: Drooze
 

Chris, You get 2 different choices of rods. H beam or I beam Scat rods from MP. Personally, I don't like either choice. Talked with Randy Longstreet from Manley and they submitted a Pro Series rod. I also plan on sending one of our 5.7 pistons to Ross. Hold tight and don't rush your next build. I'd wait for the quality parts that'll show up very soon.

Re: Drooze
 

I deleted it because it's irrelevant.

Regardless, you shouldn't be going through motors at this rate.

Re: Drooze
 

Fact of the matter is the word's out that Drooze is not the only DP racer experiencing coming apart issues w/these 6.1 motors....:( WJ

Re: Drooze
 

So what does that mean? There are plenty that aren't having engine problems as well?

Tuning???

Re: Drooze
 

Phoenix was a rain out all runs there are aborted... When ever it resumes you will get another shot then random pairings. Also Joey made 2 shut off runs at 10 + seconds.
By the way nice pics you posted

Re: Drooze
 

Thats one of the problems, the AMOUNT of interference....its zipping logs on BOTH the Ecu and the Wideband logger totally seperate units, its THAT much.

It happens over about 7 grand, below that its ok, but well, lots of EM, it looks like thats solved however.

8 20 amp igniters zapping over 7k and 16 plugs well....a lot of EMI,probably more than its obvious you can imagine. Im pretty familiar with EM and how to shield it, from radio electronics and all my XY expereince when my dad owned his vending company (atari XY games were notorious for that) and it looks like my "super nuclear Drooze 100MEV Faraday Cage" solved it, but hey no hating, it works.

The OPTIONS arent plentiful, not for a hot spark, not on this engine because of the coil rules in regard to numbers, so if you know a way to fire 16 plugs with 8 coils let me know, and a coil that over 65k volts on both sides. May be an import unit but we cant find one.

So the option is use a hotter igniter and spark booster, but with the igniters they were enough so we removed the spark booster, and we were still good.

Now for a new and improved non-trackside built one.....(em shield) Time to dig out all my old HAM radio gear.....(I KNEW it would have a use again !) I had to make this one out of roof flashing, alluminum window screen, anti static mylar coated bubble wrap (sun shielding) and a few other handy items I grabbed at Home Depot.

Its enough EM its zapping the flash ram....seriously.....And Not just on our ECU, but other systems, including a laptop if its in the car......when the FCC comes knocking Ill know why....its like running a magnetron in the open.

I can also throw an arc HOT across a .060 gap at over 8k....so no spark issues :D But the lack of spark issues are causing other issues,

I got logs outta the last "Catastrophe" however.......so now I can print em out and hand em to the old man any time he gets "punchy"

Were aware of the issues and working to resolve them....that didnt cause a rod to aerate the pan, other things, mechanical did.....simple, 2 seperate issues.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2790/...c8aaacf41a.jpg

Re: Drooze
 

I don't know, but it could end up being poor quality rods, or pistons if I were to guess, but we'll see what happens at Gainesville....there should be some DP's there.....Irv Johns seems to have the strongest one so far, but only he knows how high he's spinning it....See if Irv, Gartlits and Jeggie and maybe 1 or 2 more show up at the Gators....see how fast they go down there....Neat cars....but NEW, and new almost always means there are gremlins to deal with....my opinion only.....WJ

Re: Drooze
 

Drooze, are you looking at the data logs after every run?

Re: Drooze
 

Nope, Im letting them all accumlate, then I figure I will print them out wallpaper my trailer with them and get a Ouiji board to divine the location of Elvis Presley.

Sorry couldnt resist, we are reviewing what we get yes....

What logs are going to tell me about Oiling issues I have no idea, but yes.

On the Oil side were running what supposed to be the best windage avaiable and a 3 quart (3 full quart) accumulator......

Noting more will be known until I get it home and tear it down.

Re: Drooze
 

You are assuming what went wrong, data doesn't lie. You are just throwing out a wild guess that it's oiling. You could be hammering the **** out of the motor and knocking the bearings out of it. Given your ET/MPH you aren't making crazy horsepower, the motor should live more than a couple passes.

It's absolutely foolish to be running that car down the track and not closely look at the data, actually, you shouldn't even of gone to the track and your tuner should of realized this as a MAJOR PROBLEM.

Case and point, similar situation as you, except I didn't talk **** for months building up to this so it didn't attract near as much attention. About 10 years ago I build a turbo'd car, lost a motor. I did the same thing as you and just guessed what went wrong. My datalogging system was screwing up, but I didn't think anything of it as I was convinced I knew what the problem was. Build another motor, and pop it. Same issue. Didn't have data. Built another motor, figured out my data logging issues, and found out that we had a wastegate problem and the car was seriously over boosting (data doesn't lie). Something that was so simple cost tons of money. Could be the same in your circumstances as well.

You have the "technology" so you say, use it. Your tuner should know better than to send a car down the track without knowing 100% sure that the datalogging system is working.

Re: Drooze
 

Wasnt their call, was a consensus and a bet on me and the old mans part.

We knew the issues, we knew the risks we knew the reward, we played our cards, we lost the hand not the game.

The old man has a quote he likes to use when he makes a bad bet, or just simply gets beat in a hand "Sometimes you just gotta pay the man"

Such is life.

Knowledge told is good if it comes from a trusted source, but it is still no replacement for knowlege earned.

As you found yourself, well get there, it is what it is and it will be handled,

Knocking the bearings out, no, plugs clean, det cans good on dyno, aki logged clear and a visual inspection (I pulled the heads ... yes really ) before we tracked....everything was as perfect as could be....and out AFR was fat and timing low, EGTs right in line (those are logged seperate, or I say can and were) Not totally blind, just partway.....

Re: Drooze
 

If your AFR was fat, and timing was low, EGT's would be high, not "right in line" Your tuner should know this. Just FYI ;)

And as far as your other choices, hey, it's your money and your car. It's just going to be hard for you to back up all the **** you talked if you keep making some of these decisions.

Re: Drooze
 

I must have a severe case of brain fade. I think I remember "way back" in my turbo days.
I would add fuel to lower egt's. And my turbo cars all went up the track without a datalogger. The only way I could tune the car was with the adjustable fuel regulater
And the only data I got was from the EGT gauge. No wideband or anything else, but somehow or other I managed. Ronnie Sox, Bill Jenkins, And Don Nickolson seemed to get by without data loggers for a number of years
New cars go through a learning curve. As I mentioned in an earlier post I couldn't get past the starting line 2 weeks ago. A lot can go on in 11 runs as shown on DRC.
This was their first time out with a completely new car, they will get it right it just takes time

Re: Drooze
 

Chris,
Sounds to me you have the money or right resources to spend on the right stuff, I would make a call to Irvin Johns and who ever is doing his motor work on the Dodge i would hooking up with them.

The right engine builder is going to send you out on the track knowing everything right and most of the top notch engine builders are at most events to help out when needed.
Never feel to shy to ask for help in the SS & Stock pits, they are a great group of people and i have never seen anybody not wanting to help out a new comer to SS/Stock racing.

My father is a engine builder for over 40 years and we have a lot of customers running in Super classes and we go out of our way at the races to make sure everybody is running ok and we have even given them our spare motor, transmissions or what ever if needed.

Hope the best for you guys and remember call if we can help in anyway with machine work.

Re: Drooze
 

You made due with what you had back in the day, as did many others, and most weren't EFI, big difference. When I first started turbocharging cars, it was much the same as you described. However, with the technology and products of today that you can take advantage of you no longer have to guess.

You also didn't have the internet where everyone is in everyones business to see how many problems people are really having...haha. I'm sure tons of people were blowing stuff up learning.

I understand the learning curve of a new car. Believe me.

And retarded timing = Higher EGT's. Regardless of A/F

Re: Drooze
 

WIll do, thanks for the resource. I have over the years enough of these engines breeding around the shop to scab parts, I have 2 ideas of what happened, both conjecture until I tear into it...

I dont know who is going to do the machine work, I have a guy I use but it all depends on what his schedule is he does mostly av work and right now everyone is getting ready for the racing season and the airshows. He can be as backlogged as crazy or doing nothing.

I need a good machinist I havent found one local. Not one I would trust with anything other than a lawnmower.

I asked Irv and I know who did his motor and have talked with them, they are an option, I think Ill be doing the next 2 myself. I have the stuff less pistons at the shop, so...1 mild, another wild....well start there, the old man has seen my motors and driven my cars, he knows as do I what I can and cannot do, so were both looking forward to one of :"Our" motors.

The guys in the pits have been great, no doubt and some very very good info, some insights into others things tranny and chassis setup we simply dont, didnt know and would have had to learn the hard way, the people it came from I have no question as to its validity.

Thanks Joe, I will very possibly take you up on it.

Cheers

Chris

Re: Drooze
 

I NEVER said Retarded timing, NEVER, I said low, maybe it was a communication lapse you thinking I meant something I didnt.

These motors are just about PERFECT at 20.5-21 degrees total timing at WOT, period, just about anyone out there who knows these will tell you that , we were at 19 on 1 run 20 on another, thats what I mean we werent throwing 24 degrees at it, these heads have a stupid amount of flame travel. 20.5-21 seems to be the "Magic Number"

Low is "relative" I guess.

Re: Drooze
 

I'm glad to hear that you know what the perfect and magic numbers are. That paired with all the secret squirrel stuff has proved to be a killer combination.

Re: Drooze
 

You are new here and don't know peoples backgrounds or what they run or have ran. My turbo dodges must have had some secret squirels firing the fuel injectors. Or was that EFI? I ran turbo stockers from the mid 90's till 2002 But I couldn't make them run any faster than 2 seconds under the index. I'm sure with some knowlege they should have run 5 seconds under.

Re: Drooze
 

You also stated that more fuel equaled higher EGT,s On a diesel maybe But not on the turbo cars I ran
You are new here and don't know peoples backgrounds or what they run or have ran. My turbo dodges must have had some secret squirels firing the fuel injectors. Or was that EFI? I ran turbo stockers from the mid 90's till 2002 But I couldn't make them run any faster than 2 seconds under the index. I'm sure with some knowlege they should have run 5 seconds under.

PS those fuel injection firing squirels have migrated to my Neon

Re: Drooze
 

One message for all the world champion typists.
These guys have had the car to the track ONCE, They had some bad breaks. I believe before we all tell them everything they did wrong. We should allow them some time.
Dooze and his Dad can now post in the section reserved for actual racers.

Re: Drooze
 

Will said Artie

Hammer

Re: Drooze
 

I said most weren't EFI. You are taking everything I'm saying out of context. Same with the EGT comment. My point was if you have retarded timing, your EGT's are higher since the fuel is now burning in the pipe and not the combustion chamber. You should know this. But since I've only been on Class Racer for a couple months, maybe I don't have enough knowledge, or clueless of the topic on hand, nor am a real racer...haha.

As far as the world champion typist award, that goes to Drooze.

And Art, if you have followed all of the stuff that Drooze has said up to this day, you wouldn't be a fan. Perform, then talk. Nothing is expected of a new car when the expectations aren't set by the owner to break records.

Re: Drooze
 

I think there are about 20 other people running / building this engine that will tell you exactly what the total timing should be, Hemidup, Staton, Mopar, Irv, Doug Duell, Leo Meany and Big Stuff and on and on.....

So........thanks were glad we know it to.

You have obviously never built one of these engines, I did NOT do the bottom end on these 2 , simple time didnt allow and well, they were supposed to be good as it.

Glad somehow YOU can cast doubdts, its apparent only you can know something about something you know nothing about.

Re: Drooze
 

I'm not casting doubts. I asked a few questions and find some of your decisions pretty foolish. Just my opinion from my experiences. I find it ironic that you can tell anyone that they know "nothing about it"

Short of a bunch of **** talking, you have proven nothing about your knowledge, driving, tuning, etc.

Like I said, you should of just went out, sorted your bugs out and got it running well. But instead you insulted, bragged, and talked **** about how you were going to perform pre Gainesville, which is next week by the way.

Re: Drooze
 

boostedf22c, you are embarassing yourself more with every post. Art has never met a racer he didn't like. You are making a huge mistake trying to make him a bad guy! Before you try to make *me* a bad guy let me tell you I ran FWD Stockers for 20 years and one of Art's turbo Dodge's for 5 years. Chris (Drooze) may not have gone about this the way you believe he should have however we here like him and I personally think he is a colorful character. Please enlighten us of *your* accomplishments. Jim

Re: Drooze
 

I never even said a word to Art, until he was questioning me. I don't know how i am trying to make him look like a bad guy, nor why you would think I'm going to make you look like a bad guy?

Embarrassing myself? With what, facts?

Re: Drooze
 

All I am saying is you come off as confrontational and you seem hell bent to show us that you know much about everything. I've seen this many times here, slow down, gain our trust, then start slamming Drooze. Jim

Re: Drooze
 

And all I was saying from the get go was that if you have datalogging capabilities, use them. It's not smart to be making passes in a brand new car without getting data, that's just a fact. Yes, people have done it in the past, and now, but it's not good practice. You can save a lot of money with data these days. Find problems before they turn into larger ones, etc.

I'm not here to prove what I have accomplished and what my knowledge is, I'm just here to slam on Drooze. :)