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Alright Ive decided to use the "nuclear" option. Nuff bitching and moaning. You wanna complain, hows this. Suppose the NHRA Created a NEW Class, built a bright shiny playground YOU can play in ? BUT We can still play in yours ? And even HP got factored close in S and SS ? How you like them apples ? So Im new to Class Racing, so what, I have seen my "Combos" moved up and down the ladder in bikes for years. I had (just sold) a 200cc Bridgestone GP Bike that was ONLY Allowed and still competitive in 350 class... yes really. Not only that but it would tear an NEW 250 anohter ***. That from a 68. Things are changing. Adapt or persish simple. "Stockers" ala 1970 are NOT representitive of todays iron, It took detroit 40 years but its here and now. AND Its STOCK. Adapt ot perish, no amount of crying will fix it from yalls perspective. I think a "vintage" class is in order. Would that make you happy ? I dont negatge the blood sweat and tears put in any combo, but that a lot of you are saying is we cant play too. Careful what you wish for.....very careful....... |
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All anybody has been asking for is a modicum of common sense, and I think 98% of those who take issue with what has been done with the new cars have NO problem with you and others who have built them. You're playing within the rules. It is the factories and NHRA that have made it a complete and utter joke. |
Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
Thanks, much needed, it wouldnt have mattered where we ended up just to be a part of it was enough.....
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Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
Drooze, you're full of crap. You all haven't even made a decent pass down the race track and you're trying to tell us our cars belong in vintage stock. Bull ****. You have the car that needs to be in a different class not ours. I've listened to you tell everyone how much you know and how smart you are , The thing is, you don't know jack when it comes to stock eliminator. Your car is bogus,the motors for it are bogus, and until you can get it down the race track you are bogus. How do you like them apples?
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In as much as a new class.....like I said be careful what you wish for...... A bright shiny new playground where youre NOT allowed but we are in yours.... THAT I know for a fact. So..well its gonna be fun this year, it alredy has been. And it will continue to be, today was a "short" day the onl man had Chemo, but hell be there 8 sharp tommorow.....can you say you would be ? |
Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
I see it now...it's not just the cars that will change in this class,alot of the people or there attitude will change too...one thing is sure...it wont be the same anymore!
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Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
A new class is being formed...... B.S./SA Only new cars are allowed. Make up your own HP number and weight sticker......Run a power adder if you feel like it.....but it's still a legit Stocker.......New Breed Stock it's called....
You don't actually make any runs....you just see who can brag the most and make up all kinds of stories and distractions...and tell everyone else they don't know what they are talking about....or they just don't get it......or......blah, blah,blah..... It's regodamnediculous ..... But I'm having fun with it.....and I don't take myself all that serious.... and Morgan Fairchild is my girfreind...yea thats right! |
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Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
She's a switchitter Ed and she likes short bald old guys.....
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I've got just the class for the new cars. Super Gas for the Challengers and Super Comp for the blown Mustangs.
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Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
Ok Rich......lets see..
First where which exact post have I ever told someone they dont know what they are talking about ? Thats your MO not mine. Post a link to the exact post. DP Items dont count, that I hate to say I probably do know more about that you, as hard as it is for you to believe, BUT Links, LINK, the BS falls on your side of the fence here my friend. My understanding is you dont even have a current class car , is this correct ? Not, had, not will have not in the garage apart, do you have a current class car ? In as much as blowing it up, rebuilding it and lather rinse repeat, well keep doing it. Do we have now to do it to "your" expectations ? Weve run in competition, and blown it up there.....next. In as much as stories and distractions, ok hows this, ? My son is 13, hes had cancer and a liver transplant, no BS absolute fact, Now, he races, and enjoys it, what kind of example would I set for him if I did as you would desire and quit ? Dono what kind of father you are, but I know myself kids learn from example and I am proud of the example I set for him. Isnt Morgan Fairchild a lesbian ? Odd you would pick her.......very odd. Shes also about 100, you can have her. And no you shouldnt take yourself too serious, I dont, nor do I myself. Sad you seem to. Oh well..... Hes also ace at blowing them up:D I will say it again, please post links here to where I am telling someone they dont know what they are talking about.....you opened the can lets see if you can back it up .http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4040/...a55a31a417.jpg Quote:
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Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
Rich, I'm not short, but I can slump. I am overqualified on the other counts. I will give her my Social Security check. Greg, I tried to call you yesterday, but no answer. I had to go to my fish camp and have a few beverages. I'm glad you found a new class for the new cars. I was starting to worry. Anybody going to Houston in SS. The entries in SS are really low, but it's still early. Course no Stock could be the issue.
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I am sorry if your son is/was ill.......I wish him a full recovery..... I have a son and his name is Rich Biebel Jr.....he is well liked and I raised him on my own since he was 7 years old.........and he's 42.....He's the service manager of a Powersports dealer........I am proud of him and always have been. He was always with me when I raced when he was young............I also have a daughter. She also was with me as I snuck her into the pits a few times when she was very young....She is married to Vet...as in pet doctor(surgeon) and is 36.....fortunatley both are and have always been fairly healthy.......so I know all about kids and setting a good example..... I am not the perfect parent........but I think if you ask my kids they will tell you I did just fine...... |
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I congratulate you on what sound like fine kids, but holy smokes how old are you ? Lol....no seriously, I put you at mid 40's guess I missed that one. lol....your son is in his mid 40's.....wow....I dont think I could have been farther off on that if I tried. Well, sitting at mickeyds watching the little ones play.....my daughter is 4, SHE is the rotten one......But I can say I dont think ill have to worry about "the boys" more that they will worry about her....little thug she is |
Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
See, we have more in common than you think........Chris
I am 62+ but a very young 62! Except for when my body reminds me how old I really am......and that's every friggen day usually..... My son was and is a huge 2 wheeler enthusiast.......Built bicyles when he was a kid......he rides everything and anything on 2 wheels.......from bicycles to road racing big rice burners....at places like Pocono, Loudon, 3 Mile Point, NJ Motorsports park.......alll just "club" racing for fun.......He also owned a small Suzuki dealership for a number of years........He is good on a road course and took some pro lessons with some big name Suzuki factory riders teaching..........He scared the bejesus out of me one day when he brought a bike to the race track to drag race. I couldn't watch ! .....He went 10.70's on a Street bike.....a GSXR 750 or a 1000 I think it was. He rides with a very serious group of friends and they have some very cool bikes...... Me.....I'm a H-D type ....a Sportster fits and I am seriously tempted to get one.....but I remind myself about all those stitches I required once upon a time.......... |
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Hey Rich...
I could point that since you pulled a quote from Drooze's post that might be the reason he thought your comments were directed at him....But never mind. Now that I know we are about the same age, I can look past all of that. Hey I am 64, with 65 coming along in a couple of months... I only had one child, a son Chris (Drooze" to you.) We figured out what caused it to happen and quit that immediately. And only having one child, has allowed me to be a young 64/65. In fact I was 62 before I ever had to spend a night in a hospital, and was on absolutely no medications. Then came lung cancer, but as my doctor tells me, I am atypical, responding well to the chemo and a great attitude. I cant do much about how I respond to the chemo, but as for the attitude, the alternative would be to give up , or live....And I chooose to live it up.. Don't worry, be happy.. And to Greg Hill, Drooze had a 10.68 run when he was bouncing off the rev limiters that we had set for the dyno and not removed, in 1rst and second gear, so I guess you might say he made a pretty good pass there. I expect it would have been very low 10s with a higher rev limit. My best in the car was in the low 11's as I was still getting used to the car. And had we not blown up coming out of the burn out, I imagine we might have gotten back into the 10's.... And with a 5.7 we will be in the low 10's or better... Do we have good advice to give? Knowing what not to do, is as valuable as knowing what to do. But we also know a lot of what does work. Yes, we have good advice to offer, and those who actually have a DP and/or 5.7 or 6.1 know they can, do call us for for any kind of help we can offer. Working with a brand new car. A brand new class. A brand new engine combo, is not a simple thing. But just because it isn't the easy road, doesn't mean we won't take it. To say that someone is "full of crap" seems a little harsh.And when you don't know the facts it is just plain wrong, and frankly it seems a bit nasty.. But that is OK. Just keep making your personal attacks and showing people what kind of guy you are. We really don't care. David The New Hemi Guy |
Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
David......
One thing about the interent...it gets people wound up and unlike a person to person discusssion it often turns somewhat ugly for some reason.....I think people are very opinionated, and especially us older dudes. If I was standing right next to you and we had some of these conversations it would never be like via the internet. We can fuss and argue and usually disagree or agree about issues but it would usually just be a very civil but maybe spirited conversation....... I got my start in drag racing by racing a Jr.Stocker and that is where my roots are in the sport.....I have raced Stockers and a SS'er a few times but it was more than my budget could allow usually. I always built my own cars and engines. I can live without the bickering, rules issues and never ending controversies but I allow my self to get caught up in it sometimes.....and spout my opinions. I presently race a dragster in brackets and S/C........It's fits my budget for time and money.......I enjoy racing and have fun and always have.......These are legitamite racecars even if many Classracers think otherwise. I won't go into a diatribe about that subject........It's to bad that we all don't stick together and support all categories. If we did maybe NHRA would treat US all better and racing conditions would be better for all. David...I wish you good health so you can eventually race the DP and make some good runs.........Us old guys gotta stick together....... |
Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
Just wanted to say that I've known Greg Hill for quite a few years and they don't come any better, straighter or helpful than he. Don't know you and your boy, am sure you are just "good old boys" having fun with a new toy, but I don't think you understand or can appreciate what Greg and racers like him have gone through the last 20 years or so and it just makes it a little hard to try an swallow all the BOGUS hp/combo's that people can go and buy and that NHRA lets it happen.
You earn respect you don't buy it. Later RJ |
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Here, here! RJ and Bruce have nailed this one! Jim
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Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
I agree with the last three posts ,too
Listen here , some of you newbies and returning racers (no names mentioned) Guys like Greg Hill and Mike Walter have been severely beaten up by NHRA's lack of competence for the last 15 years. One could argue that the FI , high tech cars caught them by surprise , and they eventually dealt with it. Not this time though... I'll save some of you the trouble of replying now. For the record ,I'm not against new cars or progress. I remember the 50 Oldes being replaced by the Tri 5 Chevies, which were ,in turn, were obsoleted by the 1st gen. Camaros. Such changes are inevitable. What's going on now, is totally different . NHRA knows exactly what they are doing. This current crop of minimum run, special built factory ringers, kit cars , and way bogus rated combos in Stock Eliminator is a travesty and totally inexcusable. Once again, it shows what they think of the MAJORITY of racers. |
Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
Aw shucks RJ, I didn't know you cared.
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Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
Calm down Greg was just stating what most already know. I know how you feel about the HP/Combo's and well........it just don't taste real good.
Like you and most others, I am not opposed to the new cars, I welcome them. What I don't understand or like is the down right ridiculous hp ratings on these cars and engines. They seem to be sending us a message and its not what I want to hear. The people with the money to spend on the new cars do not have a clue or just do not care to see the other side of the issue. I cannot blame them on one hand for wanting to have a killer combo, just pony up the money and you have a Class winner, but on the other hand it like stealing our money when you have to run one in Class. I just don't understand NHRA's thinking on this and I for one agree with you about just staying away from National Events this year and see what happens. My best to you and your family Later RJ |
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Clueless? RJ, from you that is a compliment.
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Hey Jeff your welcome!
Really you fit more in the second part of the sentence. How quick one forgets about being on the outside looking in. I can remember in the old days how you loved to bash all the "paper cars", and now you are one. LOL. Like I said I welcome all the new cars and engine combos, too bad NHRA did not do the rightful thing concerning HP rating. PS Please stay in H/SA with that animal, at F weight you can probably run in the 9's. See you soon Later RJ |
Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
I have no issue with Greg Hill, other than his telling us we are full of crap.
As for having been through the wars, I completely respect that, and with all of the other guys I respect standing tall for him, I can understand what is being said. But in my opinion, bad manners and name calling just don't make a point as clearly as directing comments to the issues... As to the points being discussed; Are the current HP factors fair... we have admitted as other have, that they probably are not.. But what are we supposed to do???? Everyone looks for a favorably factored car to run. We just happened to have one already.. And we are working to move to an even more favorable rating with the 5.7. And we have no misconception that you just have to find a good combo and ride it forever into the sunset. We know it takes work to keep competitive, and I respect those who have done the same over time. Maybe it is because I am new here, but can you tell me how calling us names, and telling us that we don't know what we are talking about helps anyone with the NHRA and the current factoring system?? If we don't know what we are talking about, then tell us where we have erred. I may be slow and old, but I am still trainable... So be specific and tell us where and why we are wrong, and maybe it will serve a better purpose than calling names. We know that we stand on the shoulders of giants in this sport. We are not, as some seem to believe, totally new to drag racing. And we are far from new to engine building... But like most honest men, we are willing to admit that we don't know everything, and we may never know it all. But we do know a bit. We don't want to be at odds with anyone here or anywhere else, but when attacked without justification, we will tend to defend. ....Unless we are totally wrong, and then we will man up and admit it. Was I wrong to call out Greg Hill for name calling? Just because he is an experienced racer and has been on the wrong end of the stick with the NHRA? I do feel for the guys who are looking down the wrong end of the NHRA gun... But again I ask what am I supposed to do? And how much good does name calling do? So let's start over. I won't, and so far I haven't, called Greg names...And if he chooses to call us names, we simply will not respond. I am not asking for respect. I have spent my whole life earning respect in the my chosen vocation, and my chosen hobbies... If you respect us, and some here do, then so be it. But if you do not respect us, then so be it too. We aren't here to battle. We are here to learn, and to share what we already know. If you think we are full of crap, then just ignore what we say. That seems easy enough.. David The New Hemi Guy |
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I don't believe anyone knows who you are. Why don't you use your full name? |
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No problem..
It is David D. Wertman I live in Akron Ohio. Born and raised in Ohio, with stints of living in Pittsburgh Pa, Chicago, Ill, LA, and the Washington DC area. And those who don't know me by my name there, know me by face and my cars. New Hemi is my License plate on the 2008 SRT8. I use it because I identify with it. David The New Hemi Guy |
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We dont want that car in H/SA It isnt a H car and only hurts our class A one of one crate motor car passed by NHRA for what is in it for them $$$ Jeff what you did was just wrong and you know it Try looking out for stock and not hurting it.... |
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He knew that the car isnt right As said before isnt this a one of one car? Isnt this basically a crate motor car? And most everyone knows this car shouldnt be in H . I understand that isnt a big deal from where you sit but to me it is a very big deal I spent alot and work alot to get my car to where it is and what he did hurts my class And as others have said just work more and spend more wont work in this case All I am asking is for respect for what all class racers are trying to do and I for one dont feel he did.... All said with all due respect... I feel it is important for the racers in S/SS to do the right thing and because NHRA didnt doesnt mean we should take advantage of it and hurt our fellow racers |
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That 's funny (not really) all you guys that used to make fun of the IHRA crate motor cars. At least they have reasonable HP ratings (for now anyhow). And you can put them in $1,000 bodies. You don't have to have to purchase a $50,000+ car to do it.
I don't have a crate motor car, I just think it's ironic. |
Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
For most this is a hobby so "playing fair" is not an unreasonable request. BUT I doubt there are too many people that race Stock and Super Stock that do it just becuase they like to drive a car fast. The want to race, and they want to win (that's how you get to race more).
Now factor the investment. It doesn't cost $75k+ to build a car to run 9.70's, you could be going alot faster for a third that money with a dragster. People choose to spend this kind of money for the competition. You have to be on drugs to think anyone would CHOOSE to spend that kind of money on a combination that isn't or can't be competitive because they don't think another combination isn't "fair". The only reason some people do that is because they are have some non-competition based motivation (always wanted to race X kind of car or diehard Y-brand fans). Now I feel bad for anyone who is now not competitive and needs to spend more money to catch back up (if that is even possible in some cases). But I see people on here that sound serious when they have asked people who are racing these new combinations to tell NHRA they have an unfair advantage. Seriously? This isn't some cheap legal show on TV where if I turn myself in I can get a plea deal for a lesser HP adjustment because of my honesty. |
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Again -- I *love* the new cars. Just put them in the right place, with reasonable HP factors. Got no problem with the people that've bought or built them. The blame is NHRA's. |
Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
Well said Michael!
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Re: Yet another bogu horsepower factor
Forget all the nonsense Mustangs, Challengers, etc. If you want to be the bad boy in the country get a Cadillac. It may not go into the eights, but it will go further under than anyone else.
Now that some new cars can obliterate the rest of the field everyone is crying and bickering amongst themselves. I totally understand the situation as I have been in it more times than not for over twenty years. The thing is anyone who wants to race Stock only has to look in the Classification Guide and pick the combo that they want. How fast do you want to go? How much money do you want to spend? Some combos are soft and some are not, but you do have a choice. Some people want to run these new Fords with say unfair HP ratings. These individuals know that they are just scratching the surface of their true potential. Same goes with the Mopar clan. The bowtie people have had an advantage in the past, but it only has taken several years to realign them with the HP ratings. The sad thing is that these newer cars will eventually be corrected but the other sportsman racers will have left the sport due to frustration. In the true form of competition we need all the new cars we can get. It will keep the sport alive. We need the older cars as they are a real representation of the sport and is the greatest car show as well. And believe it or not we really need the imports if we are going to draw in a new generation. It all still comes down to HP ratings whether new, old, domestic or foriegn. The manufacturers know how to "play the new game" with HP ratings. Remember that well. The technical staffs and crews can see the descrepecies in HP ratings as well. The regular racer can see the differences. Everyone knows what is going on. Even the NHRA people in the Competition Department know the situation. We have representatives and comitties but it does not help. If you want to reach the individuals who are casting a blind eye to this and are the ones responsible for changes then look no further that the five members of the Competition Committee. They are the ones who are running this HP game. Get ahold of them and you have the culprits. Good luck. Now leave each other alone and go after this Committee. Ron Ortiz U/SA no further questions. |
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Somehow I think we got a little off base here. It is not Jeff's fault, or Chrysler's fault, or Ford's fault that the NHRA has totally thrown out the rule book and allowed these Mustangs and Challengers into Stock. All of you know that if you were able to, you would build or have one built and go racing. Do I look forward to seeing Jeff in the other lane? NO! In fact I hope he will let us H/SA guys know when and where he will be running that beautiful mechanical work of art! This all comes down to the fact that NHRA has broken their own written rules and put these cars into Stock while giving them an indefensible HP rating. Hell, if they want to rate that 360 combo at 275hp then put my 360 back at 175hp! It makes just as much sense. I think maybe Jeff was sort of thumbing his nose at the NHRA when he let it all out on Thursday at the CajunNats and ran 10.50 @ 127. -1.65 under the new index! -1.95 under the old one! Jim
I guess since these engines use full aluminum roller rocker arms it must be ok for all SB Mopars to use them now? ."Ron has a good point If these new cars fit into CF/S or U/SA, would the choir be singing as loud?" The answer to that one is very much a yes! I received everything but death threats when I qualified #1 many times with both the Cadillac and the Turbo Dodge! What nobody remembers that? And remember Mike Senia's Cadillac in T/SA and U/SA? We were driving Cadillac's before Cadillac's were cool! . |
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