Re: oil retention devices
 

I disagree with this statement,especially the last sentence.It is a big deal if the diaper WON'T fit.My sbc camaro has no additional room between the stock front crossmember and my oil pan.I don't know any bracket racer,in this division, that runs 10.00 and slower that runs a diaper in a stock chassis car.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Do you have a stocker or an ET car?

If you have an ET car, why are you concerned?

If you have a stocker, why is your pan that close? Those cars have plenty of room for a diaper---unless you have moved the engine or are running an aftermarket pan.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Stock and Super Stock do not need a diapher .. we are not the problem case closed

Re: oil retention devices
 

Another issue I have not seen addressed is oil temperatures. This often does not relate to the bracket or Super Class racers as they are not "typically" running as us; the "performance based class racers".
I think you'll find a lot of the former running 50wt oils and changing the oil once or twice a season. The later will often run 10 wt oils and change it as often as every race. But maintenence, although an issue, is not the real concern I have, it's oil temperatures. Personally, per my engine builder, I don't want to see oil temps above 150 degrees based on the oil and clearances I have in the engine. He says if it hits 200 degrees, park the car until it drops. Even if it means loosing a round. Some may have a differing opinion but it's my engine and that's what I go by so I really don't care what Smokey Yunick said 30 years ago. Hardblock or similar products retain heat already.
Call it a diaper, call it a blanket, but no matter what, it's serves to retain heat in the oil pan. I see no way around this. I'd like an independent party to analyze the change in oil temp and the amount of time to cool down with a blanket as opposed to without a diaper.
And I'm with everybody else on this, I see no problem in the class. The issue in the sportsman ranks is the classes that seldom maintain their engines and continue to race when performance is suffering. A Super or Top racer that slows two tenths is more likely to adjust the throttle stop or ad more NOS than to pull the pan and inspect the engine. That always leads to trouble.
I'm sending this post to the S/SS committee
Tech@nhra.com

Re: oil retention devices
 

I think I'll save money and have my bogus Impact firesuit made into a diaper !!!!!!! What Next !!!!!!!! Must be certified by Pampers at a cost $100 every two years.

Re: oil retention devices
 

First let's get over the notion NHRA is making any money on this. This rule is to prevent oil downs to speed up the races, a safety measure and
help meet the DEP standards. We have all been at races where they have
been delayed from one form of oil down or another and NHRA biggest concern is with National Events vs. the Lucas Oil or National opens for the obvious reason, TV which is great for our sport.

Second the SRAC committee has asked to see the "oil down report ". We have been told that NHRA does have one but we serious doubt it will separate engine oil downs from transmission, radiator or rear end leaks.
NHRA is going to report to the committee engine oil downs vs other track problems for Stock and Super Stock.


Woodro's post is absolutely right on. If you have a combination where its going to be virtually impossible to install a diaper or installation of a oil retention devise will create a some form of hardship ( the cost of a diaper doesn't constitute a hardship ). You need to not only
document it BUT take pictures so we can present to NHRA. Pictures are
probably the best thing you can do. Send or email this to your SRAC representative in your division.

From what we have been told NHRA wants to make a decision by Englishtown. Reason being is if we have to run an oil retention device in 2011 we have time to prepare for it. So you have until the end of May to get the letters and pictures to your reps.

In Division 1 I am going around with Bob Lang to look at various cars and to see what the real viability is for installation and servicing cars with diapers on. So if your going to be at Atco next week for the National Open and you feel there is no way to satisfy this rule without a severe hardship let me know.

When you submit your letters and photos be sure to include your name and car number. If you're not a current stock or super stock racer which means, current NHRA membership with a current license and car number don't bother submitting anything.

We are all working hard to represent you but you have to help yourself and us by submitting the letters with pictures.



Kent Hanley

Re: oil retention devices
 

How much to build and install it???? I'm sure it's more than I want to spend!

Are we going to have to diaper the transmission and rear end too??? I've seen just as many broken transmissions and rear ends that have put fluid on the track as I have blown motors!!

Re: oil retention devices
 

Every car at the Division 7 ET finals in 2009 that was quicker than 10.00 and faster than 135 MPH was required to have a diaper. I would think there were a number of cars in Pro that fit that requirement and had stock front sub frames as well as a few in Super Pro.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Who will be liable for the fire that happens because the oil is trapped in the diapher and the race car burns down ?? Just curious ??? or the diapher gets hung up on the steering?? who is liable ???

Re: oil retention devices
 

Why worry about it....your dad spends his money and does all of the work on the stocker anyway....lol.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Well i mas well speak me piece, i have to say FJ had good points and he should know, he has build enough of these cars. in my case i also have about 1/8 of a inch between pan and subframe, oil pan is 4" past the flywheel, draglink is about 3/16 under the oil pan, headers are right there also, Ken i will not be at the open, but i will be at Div. please you and Bob come by my trailer, i will put it on the lift for ya's and i have my spare in the trailer also you can look at, i have a idea what it would cost, ya mas well let us use a dry sump system, i seen the 2 rods come out of a ford a few years ago and not one drop of oil on the track, i have even been looking at putting a pan under the car, but all i can see is alum. going everywhere when it come down front a uncontrolled wheel stand, i know too many cars with these big pans that will be a problem, another question how ya going to drain the oil between rds, to pick it up, just look at Charlotte Stock and Super Stock final's both heads up, i have spend last year 1600.00 on a chiller, just to be faster cooling and also keeping any water for getting on the track, aka for ice cubes, just spend $750.00 on a Chute, when is this stuff all going to stop, i think i was crazy buying another Stocker last week. Guys and Gals i hope all these inputs help solve this problems

Re: oil retention devices
 

How often will NHRA pull these diapers on a stocker to ensure racers arent hidng fabricated pans with kick outs, etc...

Re: oil retention devices
 

They shouldn't really worry about Stock or SuperStock cars seen as we only run 2 quarts anyways. An alcohol funny car sprays more raw fuel and oil out the pipes in a burnout than we do in an engine failure.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Yes, I'm sure there were a few just as there are a few Stockers and Super Stockers that diapers will fit with little problems, however the majority of these cars DO have insurmountable fitting issues! Jim

Re: oil retention devices
 

Due to the fact of possible oil contamination will there be a 2 year rule for replacement,
like belts?
Maybe NHRA will partner with Safety Kleen to snoop inside these diapers and make an environmental issue and causing further cost to the racer.
Only speculation but you never know,

Re: oil retention devices
 

Jim,

I asked the question about trays for a reason-Comp was originally ordered to have diapers and those were going to be a hassle, in part because of the dry sump systems we have on our cars. Trays became an alternative and they proved to be a better solution. I was asking if trays are a possibility, not saying they are easy. For us they were a better alternative than diapers, which I why I asked IF they could work for you as well. I did not say they could work for you.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Ok Dave, sorry if I came of as hostile. Nothing personal believe me. I, as others on here, are very adamant about this. When I wrote NHRA about this I told them to do their homework and they would see why this is a bad idea. Jim

Re: oil retention devices
 

With all due respect to all racers, I will be using a retension device on my 60 Corvette. I have no clearence and/or fit issues. The reason I'm using it is to protect my investment. I build my own cars, and spend a huge amount of man hours to build the finest car with maximum attention to detail. If $160 dollars keeps oil off of my tires, and keeps me from destroying my car AND/OR SOMEONE ELSES CAR, I would buy a new one each season. I'm sure anyone who has torn up their racer and/or themselves after oiling the tires would have loved to have had the device in place. It's a real bitch when your sittin in the water and it's 90 degrees in the shade, and the guy just oiled 1000 feet of race track/shutdown area. Your in there sweatin your *** off, Your pissed off, your B/P is boiling, your emotion is taking over (your "A" game just became a "B" or 'C" game at best). Think about it, you'll have a year to get it done anyway!

MAKE YOUR CAR AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE!....YOU OWE IT TO YOUR FAMILY.... AND YOUR FELLOW COMPETITORS

Wade Mahaffey

Re: oil retention devices
 

Wade,in the case of S/SS cars the diaper is going to slow down the rate that the oil in the pan is cooled down.Super catogoriy cars are set up a few hundreths soft as you already know.

Re: oil retention devices
 

With all due respect Wade..... you drive a tube chassis, no clearance issue what? Roadster? Corvette? Super Comp/ Super Gas what? Jim

Re: oil retention devices
 

Bryan, the custom built one that I got from DRE wa about 400 dollars. Even with the center link going through the diaper and Stef's pan, my little mishap last year concentrated the cleanup in a much smaller area. I believe the cleanup only took 10 minutes and I was able to get my car stopped without sliding around in 5W30. Some track are even paying you extra if you win a local event and have a diaper on the car.

Re: oil retention devices
 

My thought is let the diaper guy look at Brian's car....his looks like one of the worst cases I've seen....If the diaper guy says he can't do it...I guess it can't be done....Brian's car will at least speak for the many 69 camaro's...that should be enough to stop it....you would think...

I think both will be at the Norwalk Divisional....

Actually I think Brian should put a stock pan on his car so the diaper fits and we stop breathing his exhaust.....lol

Rock

Re: oil retention devices
 

I have been to a lot of races over the last 20 + years brackets, combos, divs and nationals and have broken a few motors a long the way which have never oiled the track knock on wood. We now can run aftermarket rods better pistons and the latest bearings. Most of us are not running 10 qts of oil or dry sumps. Nun of use wants to oil the track most of the time its just bad luck. Nascar have tons and tons of money in there motors and they blow up just like anybody else, they don,t have dipers, there on TV and have a fleet of sweeper trucks and jet dryers. Why are we such a problem the pros have caused more down time at one race than a years worth of sportman runs. We could have a honest poll on this fourum to just how many times one of us has oiled the track that has caused a cleanup of any kind. Tom

Re: oil retention devices
 

Jim and Ed, I have been under enough cars and built many also. I do undestand the clearance issues and cost involved. I am not feeling the pain of the average guy because I build my own headers, car, suspension, engine placement, everything. So for me it's not a big deal. I know the average racer does none of that, so he/she has to spend more money in fabrication/parts. I am done with the 90 cars....I still like them and respect the drivers and builders. To me it's all racing...a set of rules....and see if you can beat the next guy. I haven't raced in ten years on that level. The Corvette is for S/S and I surely have a great deal to learn. So when I get this little 283 red car done, be sure to set yourself up on my side of the sheet so you can get a free one! My point with the device is that I will use one and not that NHRA should mandate the use for everyone. I don't have any data on incidents or incident potential. I do have a family that depends on me, and that means minimize your exposure to danger and take all precautions possible. That's why I'm ok with my little "L" car. I don't even need a cage, but it's caged up real nice...even a window net. It's my opinion that an oil retension device is a good idea, hopefully I won't need it, or the seat belt, or the fire suit, or the cage, or the trans shield, drive shaft loop, etc. For my fellow racers....it will be nice for them to know that I am doing everything I can to minimize the chance of me getting into them on the run! The guys behind me will know that I'm doing my part to keep the track clean and safe for them.
Ed, I might be wrong but I thought it was...hot oil...cold water was the ticket for fast. That's what the guys that use chillers say....If you see one in D-1, look at the sticker or ask them who made it...you might get a surprise !!

Re: oil retention devices
 

Terry,

I probobly haven't met you since I was about 12 years old so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are making a joke about me on here. There is no doubt my dad throws alot of time and money at both cars. Stock eliminator is his passion and he works very hard to make sure both cars are competitive and fast. I also appreciate every opportunity in racing that has been given to me since I was old enough to start driving. I consider myself very lucky and very fortunate. But honestly you don't know me, what parts I spend money on, what work I do to the cars, etc. So please keep your opinions to yourself if you're being serious. If you're joking....sorry I took it the wrong way.

Re: oil retention devices
 

So 7 pages into this I guess I'll ask; Why do I need an "oil retention device" on my 13 second Stocker when a Bracket Dragster doesn't need one till 7.49?

Re: oil retention devices
 

I'd like to see one of these on an FE powered car. I dont see it happening!! the headers are so close to the oil pan, and it will have to fit around the crossmember??


Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane NHRA-IHRA

Re: oil retention devices
 

Stephen I was thinking the same thing. I've looked at my car and I just don't see how it would work. I'd be curious if anyone tried it on a car like ours.

Re: oil retention devices
 

All the talk on the news now with the health care reform legislation about the federal gov. forcing us to purchase something that we may not want.

Seems like the NHRA is now 'our' gov. forcing us to purchase something we don't want and don't really need.

I can't believe how many of you candy a$$es would even consider this for your car. It shouldn't be required, it should be optional.

Isn't it expensive enough to put a car together now?

Re: oil retention devices
 

Well I know about you and I do know your dad and have my connections. I did meet you several years ago at Maple Grove when you were drivng the "Box Top" coupe. To bad your so sensitive...lol. I do know that you are a very good driver. You are just one of the new breed of racers. Several on here can drive like a robot but can not even lash valves or set the timing. Your dad builds beautiful cars and I wished I had his talent. Hang in there...this racing crap isnt life or death.

Re: oil retention devices
 

I feel a need to respond to this. An oil retention device would have saved me a lot of pain and damage last season at my local track. I threw a rod at the top end and put a lot of oil on the track and under my back tires causing me to have an impromtu meeting with the wall. In the process i crossed in front of my opponent and he had to do some quick driving through my oil to avoid hitting me and the wall. A diaper would not have saved my engine but it most likely would have prevented a very unwelcome ride into the wall and almost causing damage or injury to my opponent. My theory is that no matter how good your engine or your engine builder is, they didn't build the parts, if a rod cap breaks you are going for a ride. I say this as I would never want any harm to come to any racer. As far as a short clean up time, mine was only 2 hours that could have been avoided for a mere $300 diaper.

Have a fun season.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Well being you think I'm too sensitive....I guess you were just joking! Sorry I took it the wrong way! Thanks for the kind words about my dad and I. Hope to see you at the track! If you do come to a race make sure you pick up Mr. Shannon on your way. I haven't seen him since the mid-90's

Re: oil retention devices
 

Since you're incident have you bought and installed a diaper?As of now they are OPTIONAL.And that's the way it should stay.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Yes, there will be a brand new DRE diaper on my engine as soon as it finished and dynoed. You can guarantee that I would never even consider going down the track again without one.

I know they are optional in some classes and I wasnt infering that everyone should use one but my point was that they are definately cheap insurance against a really crappy day at the track.

Have a safe season everyone.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Some at NHRA don't see it that way.No reflection on Dennis,but I'll bet if it gets approved he'll be reaching in his pocket.After all, Isn't NHRA into partnering with all comers now?

Re: oil retention devices
 

Ed, this is why I stick to my local track and just bracket race. NHRA is like an evil Robin Hood, they take from the hard working and give to themselves. They want a piece of everything. The owners of my track are not that bad, they are just super cheap and need to work on the prize money.

The horror stories I have read on various forums for all types of racing make me happy that I just stay a half hour from home and race a dozen times a summer and have some fun with some truely excellent racers. If I feel the need to watch some sportman racing I will go to a Divisional or National event for a holiday to cheer on the sportsman guys. I have seen enough fuelers and funny's in my lifetime, sportsman racing and promods are what I watch.

Re: oil retention devices
 

One thing that I don't see mentioned is oil temperature and therefor viscosity and therefor the ability to take load without metal to metal contact. In my SS car I run 11 quarts of oil! At the beginning of a run the oil temperature is about 140F; at the end of a run it is about 160F to 170F; by the time I get back to the pits its about 180F to 190F. If I let the engine sit with the hood open it takes over 1/2 hour to get the temperature back to where I can make another run assuming the is no long trip to staging. When it gets round robin time (not as often as I would like) I have to cool the oil with water or I loose bearings! What will happen when the oil pan is in a snuggie blanket insulating the oil pan! I think diapers will cause MORE engine failures than before especially with the snake oil currently used and the small quantities used in the performanc based classes. The racer looses! My vote is HELL NO!!

This my first posting. The subject just irritated me big time!

Re: oil retention devices
 

Vic, I honestly have no ldea what the oil tempurature issue would be. As for snake oil, I run 8 liters of Joe Gibbs finest in my engine.

I do have the utmost respect for the stock and super stock guys. My father ran SS/HA in the mid 80's and other good freinds have been running SS forever in Division 6. I dont plan to know all the in's and out's of class racing but my whole post was just saying that a diaper can reduce the chance of a pretty serious mishap and I have seen far to many of those in my lifetime. I most definately prefer it when all racers and race cars leave the track in one piece.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Vic Santos,
I agree with you, below is what I posted on this subject earlier on post #44:

Racer 6x64,
Another prior post from a Division S/SS representative went something like this....If you are not a registered NHRA member with a current S/SS number, your opinion is not wanted by NHRA.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Oil retention my ***. It's just a bunch of **** ( thats what diapers are for). Haven't you guys figured out what they do. Anytime we start having some real issues with things they divert our attention to crap like this and get us to stop thinking about real problems. Like the AHFS with the newer under rated cars. Especialy the one that Charlie is building. ( SORRY CHARLIE ) . I just couldn't help myself. Now if there is a real problem and it's costing money because we are not using diapers it's real easy to get most of us to put one on. Give anyone that uses a daiper a $25. discount on our entrance fee's. If there is a real problem they will save more than that with no down time from us and no extra track prep. Barry