Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Better round money? Not everyone can win or runner up at the events and better round money would go a long way to help pay the towing gas bills, etc. to make the weekend a little less expensive.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

IHRA and the Stock and S/S association here in Florida use the 3 tenths slower index for class cars NHRA used before the wack job.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Ya cant count food if you cook your own because you still eat when your home.....dont you?

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

It's not worth picking apart point by point, but I could do the same trip for nearly half. I've even gone to San Antonio (2,600 mile round trip), for less than $1,000.

@Mike -- Travel costs are a moot argument anyway, as you didn't go to Pittsburgh, Thompson, Norwalk, or Columbus. If you can't go, you can't go.

It does seem that travel costs are the biggest factor, and once again it comes back to things that aren't even race cars... look at some photos of the pits 10, 15, or 20 years ago and compare them with today, and you'll find your answer. It not only costs a lot more to get the bigger rig in the first place, but it costs twice as much to feed it. Anyone worried about the cost of racing but getting less than 10mpg has the answer right in front of them. Even when I had borrowed a truck and enclosed trailer to make the San Antonio trip one year, that combo got 13mpg.

Double races do cost more on a given weekend, but your cost per race is significantly lower than a single event that is dragged out over the course of 3-4 days. Are you going to race, or just to get away from it all and hang out, and maybe make a few passes?

JohnD brings up the most important point. Regardless of the why nots, what are the why FORS? Personally, I select events based on where I can get the most racing done for a fair price. Even when I make a long trip, I'm looking at how I can get the most out of it, like running 4 races in 1 weekend at South Georgia. When I go to the national event in Michigan this summer, it's a Fri-Sat race. I'll hit a $2K BottomBulb Series race in Kentucky on Sunday on the way home. I try to run points in multiple series. Last year, I ran a bracket race in South Carolina on Saturday night, came home and got 2 hrs sleep, then drove 6 hrs to MIR to get 1 time shot for the 2nd day of a Pro-Am. I've gone to races with double-digits in my checking account (more than once, I'm afraid). I'll sleep in the truck, in a tent, on the floor of a buddy's trailer, or on a friend's couch. The bottom line is that racing is my life, and I will do what it takes. I may not be keeping up with the Jones's off the track or in the pits, but I make up for it on the race track.

$.02,

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Yes, Sure do. My point was if you had to eat at the track hold on to your Shorts!!
Our tracks around here charge 6.00$ for a hamburger I would not feed my Dog...
Just trying to point out that is does cost more than Mr Beard's figures.
I know he is a very successful racer and is doing something very right so maybe he
should let me move in with him for a year or two lol.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Whats that have to do with costs?

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

So... don't buy them. That's what they charged at San Antonio a few years ago. I drove 3 miles or so down the road, got a $5 footlong from Subway, and made two meals out of it. The most I'll spend at a race track is typically $3.50 for a BBQ. I don't eat a lot on race day.

Some of those weekend days that I'm *not* at a race track end up costing me just as much if not more... try going out for dinner and a movie, and hit Target and Sam's Club... :eek: At least I can *make* money at a race track! ;)

I don't even play it as close to the vest as I used to. You want to learn how to pinch a penny, hang out with MYRON! :cool:

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Michael, the best quote I heard described a racer you and I both know very well.

"_____'s not cheap. He's frugal".

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Nothing, I was just curious.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

I lost 1st round both days. So my take for the weekend was 0.00

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Well My Closest race is 250 miles away, and Indy is about 470 miles one way so fuel costs play a big factor. I stay at the track and take my own food. So for a trip to Indy it's.

Entry $150
Food $40 depending on how I want to eat.
Propane $10
Fuel $290
Misc, Tols Etc $40

= $530

And thats not even getting Beer, or time off work..

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

I don't even play it as close to the vest as I used to. You want to learn how to pinch a penny, hang out with MYRON! :cool:


You are soooooo right about that! I can vouch for this statement! Myron squeeks when he walks, but he will kick your ***** on the track! Jim

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

At least you are honest, hopefully you had some fun.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

That's exactly what I proposed for Top Stock, cut the winner/runner up purse a bit and give everone of the 16 round money. the more rounds you go the more you get, but everyone gets some.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

John i think one of the biggest problems is having to take days off of work. Yeah once in a while is fine but for some its hard. I still dont understand why the NHRA can not complete a divisional in two days.

I have been hanging around some scca guys, 1. you could not believe how cheap you could get into a road car, 2. the track time is unreal, 3. its usually one or two days on the weekend!

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

A few words and some dont want to hear this.......Alcohol cars, S/C, S/G, and S/ST before PLUS now its T/S and T/D also included into the mix. Its like putting 10 lbs of poop into a 1 pound bag.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

I won my first points race in 1986. It cost me $60 to enter and I made almost $5000 (in Super Street). Today It costs me $170 to get in the gate and if I win the race I can't make $2300 (in Stock)! I've heard all the stories about how everyones expenses have increased BUT (Beaver Bob's words) put the pen to paper! I'm spending 3 times the entry for 1/2 the earnings IF I win. I just can't keep from feeling like someone is laughing their a** off and wondering just how stupid I really am. That is why I've been sticking close to my local track, racing a car that I can't possibly take seriously and trying to learn how to have FUN again!

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Billy,I bet you still have some of that $5,500 left:>):>)
Someone said earlier "how bad do you want to race"?.I do what I have to do.First off I'm no spring chicken anymore (65).Reasonably good health.My car is low budget.I haul my car in an 18' enclosed that has all the amenities I need to stay at the track.Sleeping,cook
ing,entertainment,shower/toilet accommodations.I do it by leaving the car outside and covered.My truck is a1999 Dodge Dakota with a 5.2 (318) that gets from 9.5 to 11.00
mpg on plus grade gas.I just did Norwalk for $700(1K miles round trip).Englishtown for $340 (I live 5 miles from the track.Luckily I made round money at both.I also make racing money towing cars on the side,when the jobs are available.I don't have and wouldn't want a motor home or any of the big monstrosities at the track.I own all my stuff.I don't have to worry about any notes being called in or a repo co. tracking me down.And I enjoy myself with my circle of friends.Some races we suck at racing,but we eat well.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

[QUOTE=Ed Fernandez;195822]Billy,I bet you still have some of that $5,500 left:>):>)

As a matter of fact Eddie, I spent the last of it buying the GEO!

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

[QUOTE=Billy Nees;195823]Money well spent.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

I have been watching the car counts go down. Something though, look at Denver 11 Stock and SS, and 128 Super Classes. They don't travel any cheaper than us. And I know in the Midwest and Northeast is more populated by S/SS and those seem to have more S/SS. Just a thought.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Do any of you guys/gals have young children in competition extracurricular activities? If you think racing is expensive try competition dance with 2 girls. Entry fees for solo's are around $85 and the only payout is if you win first overall, usually 30-40 dancers, and that money goes back to the studio. Then there are entry fees for duo's, trio's, and all the group dances. Your child could be dancing in 12-13 separate dances. Add the cost of costumes for each dance, private lessons, tuition and the nationals usually require travel also for the whole family. At least at a points meet you have a chance of winning something. My shop neighbor competes in the Trans-Am series with a $100,000 + car, he went to Wisconsin a couple of weekends ago, placed 4th and won $0.00, they do comp the fuel though! lol, drag racing is not so bad. Ashton 4373

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

scca trans am pays out to the racers $3000, 2000, 1000, 500, 250 plus contigency money. Plus for $100k look at the seat time he gets, compared to $100k for a stang stocker. Plus they get some tv coverage as well.

I love drag racing, always will, but for the money $100k for a stocker think of what you could get for that. And even if you build a $20k or $30k stocker its alot. Just an example, to buy a legends car $10k, porsche spec 944 $6500, American iron mustang $14000, karting $3000 to $8000.

I always wonder how some do it, traveling, taking off from work, the expenses. When i ran my stocker i figured $1k a weekend, hotels, entry, gas, tolls, gas for the car, food etc.. It sucks because the sport is great but nhra is adding more classes, less track time, less money to win more to pay.

hopefully something will change!

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

NOTHING will ever change (it will only get worse) unless ALL of the racers stick together and demand it. You know that will happen.......LOL.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

I've been reading many of the posts in this thread, and most seem to be on the same theme.... cost of entry vs payout, cost of travel, ect.
I have no dillusions of ever having to worry about the payout. For me, I find it totally rewarding to make my car go as fast as it can, knowing it's within the rules.
So why am I not racing ?
well....
I was supposed to make the IHRA Rocky Mountain Nationals in Edmonton last weekend.
Ordered parts from Comp Cams, well in advance. My local post office failed to notify me of their arrival for 5 days. Now it was close.
Opened the sealed package of spring locators, and after drilling the centers out approx .060" larger, so they would actually fit, I proceded to install them ( engine was still on the stand ). this is when I found out that one of the reatiners in the package, was the wrong part number. I wasn't going to take a chance and race with last year's combination, because it was one of THOSE tool steel retainers that took out my engine. So, just for break-in purposes, I assembled everything, and got the car all together... just in time to not go to the race.

just putting it out there...
there ARE other reasons for not making it to the races

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Ok, I'll have 6 div. and probably 4 natl. by years end. About same as last year. That is down from 10+ div. and 10+ natl from previous years. About 75% of my customers are down by this much for many reasons stated in previous posts. My reason has nothing to do with the economy it has to do with potential for enjoyment.

1) The more money I win the more I enjoy it. That is when I am fortunate enough to get to the finals.
2) The more heads up races I and my customers win, the more I enjoy it.
3) The more contacts that I make the more money I make and I enjoy that.
4) The less BS I have to contend with from the sactioning bodies the more I enjoy it.
5) The closer the factoring is, the better the competition is in class and heads up, the more
I enjoy it.
6) The more the rules are adhered to the better my stuff looks going thru tech which brings
me and my customers much satisfaction. I enjoy that.
7) The less dumba$$ DOT officers (not all, just most) I have to deal with the more I enjoy it.
8) The higher on the ladder that my customers qualify the more I and they enjoy it. (BS
bogus factoring tends to hender this).
9) Rule change of the week instead of a year off tends to lower the level of esteem that I
have held for certain people over the years and therefore lowers my enjoyment level.

Lately my "potential for enjoyment" has been drastically decreased by greedy people in positions that they are not fit to hold, much less qualified to hold. As of lately I choose to test more and race less as I think that these situations will eventually be rectified. I am optomistic. Glass half full vs. half empty.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

I can agree with about all of the above!

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

That's all well and good. But racers have to start looking at the round money rather than just what's on top. As an example, we've had dozens of high dollar bracket races that pay big money on top, but you have to go four and five rounds to even get your entry money back.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

I think john is right about the round money, anything and everything helps. When i raced i never raced to make money, i would have loved to win a race (best i went was three rounds) but racing and the people were what brought me out.

The other problem with track time is the curfew some tracks have or the starting time. I think if they could cut it down to two days more people would run the events.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Love your car......It takes me back to a better time. I applaude you for running an "09".

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

In order to cut the race down to 2 days some of the current classes that are open to these races will have to be left out. Which ones get the axe? Who decides this? Its a numbers game.....the more entrys that show up the more money the track makes. The associations usually get their money even if only a hand full of cars show up due to the contract.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

thanks, TECH MAN... now if I can only "run" it a few times this year !

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Good example will be next weekend,Jul 10-11,@Beaver Springs. Stock Super Stock combo race as part of the York US 30 reunion show. Come Sat. test&tune all day for $30 camp or park your rig overnight and be part of the show Sun for & $125 100% payback and a fabulous show and great time. The only excuse can be it's to far to travel or you died.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

We intended on racing at Clay City this weekend, but the mechanical issues of one of the two tow vehicles thwarted that. If it had been a closer race, we would have forced our way there, but an 8 hour drive each way on little to no sleep after working hard all day to correct the issue - we pulled the plug with safety in mind. For both us and those who would share the road with us. We are "die-hard" racers, but not with a death wish.

We run three cars, two ride on an open trailer towed by a crew cab truck, the other rides in a small enclosed behind the motorhome. We looked for 18 months to find our motorhome, used free flights to fly to Florida and buy it with cash and drive it home. Saved over half what a similar model near us would sell for and got exactly what we wanted. We owe no money on anything with wheels in our household. Nothing.

A motorhome is a huge quality of life issue for us, and me in particular so that makes that part of the financial equation priceless! We have two large dogs that go with us everywhere - I wouldn't race if we had to board them every weekend we are gone, and there are 40+ other weekends in the year we are home so I don't allow what happens on twelve weekends to decide who is in our family the other 40. Try renting a hotel that allows one dog, let alone two dogs that aren't teacup sized. Nowdays you end up paying more to let your dogs stay with you than the original rent for the room. And I would argue our dogs are cleaner than some of the people who have stayed in these rooms!

AND the motorhome allows us to enjoy an equally important part of the racing experience - more time with our friends at the track. The best part of the day is cracking a drink and breaking bread with your friends after the racing is done. It's hard to do that when you have to leave asap to drive the half hour to the hotel so you can get enough sleep to see straight when you get up at 4:30 am, get everyone in the shower, grab breakfast and get to the track at 6:30 so your car is warmed up and cooled down by the 8 am call to the lanes. I love being able to roll out of bed, brush my hair and my teeth, warm up the car, then shower while it's cooling down. Quality of life . . . .

The main rule is when the checkbook is empty, we don't go. We will not go into debt to do this. But we will love every minute when we are there!!!

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Im coming up from Florida just to watch.....No car yet......Im not dead YET even though some would wish I would drop dead and not post on this forum anymore.....lol. . Will be at York on Sat. and Carlise on Friday. Hope the weather is good and no rain.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

I agree with the motor home deal. As we get older quality of life far out weighs other things. One dosent HAVE to buy a 1/4 or 1/2 million dollar motor home and stacker trailers to be more comfortable. I see lots of motor homes in like new low mileage condition for less than a new pick up or crew cab truck. By the way Alex......I thought your vast winnings was supposed to pay for the racing......lol. Take care and hope to see you again someday and would like to meet Beth. The U.S. Class Nationals will forever be one of the high points of my being a tech guy even though the weather was about 150 degrees .

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Jim,

For me it's the money to finish the car.

I'm a disabled vet with a fixed pay day, I haven't had a pay raise in 3 years and I won't get another for who knows when. that means that I have lost 3% of my pay each year due to inflation.

Converting the car to legal Stock has cost more than I estimated.

Other costs: new roof on house, new well pump, someone vandalized and totaled my '99 Dodge truck so I had to buy a new truck, Max the Wonder dog almost died from an infection and that cost $800.00, lawn tractor died, and a hundred other expensive little things just ate away at my budget.

Once done I will still only race with the SSSSA even though the car will be IHRA legal due to the expense of long distance travel.

Note: for those that think spending $800.00 on my dog is dumb I would point out that I'd throw away the race car before I'd let Max down.......Jim knows about that.

JimR

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Jim,

Fantastic Post! Everyone is dead on with the economic times,cost, rules migration and the aging population of Stock and Superstock racers who are slowing down as retirement age approaches.

Although the factors covered so well in this string are contributing to the immediate reduction in car counts, there is another issue that needs to be brought to light as well as some potential solutions.

Like many of you on this forum, I eat, sleep, drink and dream about drag racing. As I get older I am really concerned that the nostalgia stock and super stockers (1975 and earlier), the essence of this sport, will go by the way of the dinosaur. Shy of a few father/son teams, the youth of today were not raised in the 60's and 70's and have little appreciation or interest in these cars not to mention the science of class racing.

The new muscle cars are cool but so expensive that young people cannot afford to own one let alone set one up for class racing. In my opinion, the only way to get new blood into this sport which would help the industry in times of economic downturn, is to figure out how to attract the youngsters of today to the muscle cars of yesterday.

I am not sure how each of you became interested in the sport of drag racing? For me it was two of my "cool" uncles who took me for a ride across town in their SS B/Mod production Mustang at the ripe old age of 6. I was hooked the minute they started that car and remember be scared, nervous and excited all at the same time. The result of that day ( I remember every detail as if it were yesterday) has been the life long pursuit of getting an education and financially situated enough to enjoy drag racing. I am 100% a budget racer from trailer park roots. It took me until 1992 to actually get financially ahead enough to buy a car and race locally and until 2005 to field a stock eliminator car. The point is that it took from age 6 to age 24 to be able to start my racing career. Had I not been exposed at that young age, I would probably ended up being another video gamer.

The hook was being able to sit inside and experience one of these fire breathing dragons, something you cannot do from the stands or your sofa via the television set or video game console. From the stands all of these cars look slow compared to rail dragsters, alcohol cars, etc.

If our sport is to survive and along with it these classic stock and superstock muscle cars, we need to put together a grass roots movement to attract the youth of today to the old muscle.

Here is an idea:

The 2 schools in my area have about 2000 kids each. Only about 200 kids in each (10%) can make the sports teams. Another 200 each can participate in some of the other extra curricular activities. So lets say this leaves 1600 other kids in each school not involved in extra-curricular activities.

So you go to your local school and talk to the administrators and talk to them about this new "Geezer Program" you are trying to promote at your local track. The program consists of letting the "too young to drive crowd" take a ride in your car through the pits and down the track (not under full power) to experience the sights and sounds and a little of the feel of the big power. Ask the school administrators to poll the students/parents for interest. Next talk to your local track operator to see if they would be interested hosting a "Geezer Program" and let the know there is interest on the part of the school. THEN MAKE IT HAPPEN!

For the children of driving age who may be interested, pick out one or two kids, train them on how to drive your car, set the rev limiter in your MSD to 4000 rpm and let them take it for a spin with you in the seat next to them.

I am working on a proposal to present to my local track in Spokane, WA to put something together like this as a way to give back to the sport. At the very least it will be cool to see the kids eyes light up when I hit the throttle and would make for a fun track day. I remember one event in Denver, CO where I had 4 handicapped kids in the car for a ride down the track. Two of the youngsters had tears in their eyes (happy) when it was over and all four asked me for my autograph. The rest of that week-end I had a 4 person cheering section at my trailer after every round. It was cool.

If anyone in the Spokane, Coeur D Alene, ID area reads this post and would be interested in working on a "Geezer Project" please email me at m900rider@gmail.com.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

[QUOTE=Michael Beard;195743]It's not worth picking apart point by point, but I could do the same trip for nearly half. I may not be keeping up with the Jones's off the track or in the pits, but I make up for it on the race track


Mr.Beard....how many times a day do you hug yourself??????

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Does this event have a year restriction on the Stock /Super Stock Combo?
Pre 1975 ?