Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Thanks Paul, have seen 2dr posts, Signet hardtop and convertible (1 convertible only) 235hp cars.....but never a 4dr -235hp model......funny they never popped out a few 235 hp station wagons......would be a cool piece, for sure..:) WJ

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

I own a Pacifica does that make me a mopar man.LOL
Chip

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

I know what you mean....I have a 70 383 4-speed Road Runner.

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

It's in the books ... 65 Dart wagon 273/235/210 .Makes N/Stock..No rollbar needed

One of my fantasy builders


All time wish Mopar? 69 1/2 Road Runner 440/ 6Bbl , 4 speed , 4.10 Dana 60,
white post coupe. That'll set you back in the seat in low gear!

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

My first "hot" car was a '71 Challenger with a built 340. I've also had a '68 GTS 340 auto and a '70 Swinger 340 4-speed w/ 3.55's and the rubber carpet.
That Swinger was bone stock and I remember being able to have it in 4th gear at about 35 MPH and it would pull cleanly all the way to redline, no clutching or anything.
My Challenger showed many a 454 and other big blocks the tail lights.
Love those 340's! :)

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Mark,
The 273/235HP Commando is allowed in the 65' and 66' Valiant Station wagons in the NHRA books,
But it was not available from the factory.
The 273/180HP 2-barrel was the top of the line for the wagons.
The 4-speed transmission and 8 3/4" posi-rear were both available options, though.
The early Plymouth ads recommended the 8 3/4" posi as a safety package, not a performance package rear.
It was said to be the 'right choice for slick roads, to keep your family safe".
Also recommended, the "Hurst" shifter and 4-speed transmission, "to ensure proper gear selection in difficult driving conditions".
Not one mention of performance. Funny wording in those 'safety first brochures'
WJ

You can see the "Prince Valiant" 4-door Valiant on the Dover site.
Under the Centolanza's thread. Lou Centolanza also ran a 65' Valiant V-200 273/235HP in 66', in E/SA. In 67' it ran in D/SA and ran on the record 13.54.
Quick little A-Bodies for that time. They ate up the 65' 327 SS Malibu cars.
PC

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

I sure would love to see a correctly restored / blueprinted (blueprinted, no NHRA upgrades) of a 290 4-speed 3.54 equipped '68 AMX vs the best 273/235 vehicle with the same gears!
The first AMX I owned was like that. It had 106K on the engine, never had the valve covers off and would easily bark 'em on the 3rd gear shift (stock tires with hubcaps). These 290's had a 2.64 low trans gear as standard.
Compared to the 273/235, the 283/220 and the 289/225's that I have driven, I would say the AMX was faster. No track times to back it up, just street time.

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Jeff,
I can give some general history.
In 1968, my father raced my mothers 67' Cuda 273/235HP Commando
4-speed w/3.23 posi. Completely stock, with about 6000 miles on it.
Ran in J/Stock and ran an honest best ET of 16.16.

At the same, time, a new 68' AMX 290 4-speed was running in K/Stock.
A new car. Not sure of the gears, but I would bet 3.15's. Ran around the same times, low 16.00's.
PC

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Hi Jeff, back in 72 my buddy Teddy bought a 71 304 Javelin automatic, it was a doggg. Almost across the street from his family store where we both worked was Pro Stock racer Richie Zul's gas station and shop where we would sometimes hang out at night. He talked Ritchie into putting on a four barrel Holley, Edelbrock mani and headers and at that point I would say it was about a high 15 second car. Teddy wanted more so it went back to Ritchie's shop for a T-10, 444 gear set and then to my place where I installed a .500" Crane cam kit with springs, properly curved and timed the distributer and set up the carb, now we had something. This was a fairly heavy car and we pounded it night after night on concrete roads all while downing plenty of beverages so there were plenty of missed gears. We never broke anything on it and I would guess it was in the high 13 second range. To this day I'm impressed with these motors because of what we put that little 304 through, Paul.

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Standard gears for a 290 4-speed would be 3.54 unless it had a/c, then it would be 3.15's. Of course AMC had optional gears all the way up to 5.00:1!
Those are respectable times on both; should have been a good heads up drag race! And I say 16.00's for a pair of little engines as you and I know most of your "bread & butter" 390-400 CID cars were usually a 15.20-15.50 ET.

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Jeff, it was the 4spd B5 Blue car. We bought it in 72

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Jeff,
I didn't know the 290's came standard with the 3.54.
Forgot about this one though.
In 1968, a Javelin also ran in J/Stock.
Odd, the 290 AMX ran in K/Stock, as well as the 66' Chevy II Nova
283/220HP.
I'm not sure which engine was in the Javelin. If the car was heavier than the AMX, then the engine could have have been a 343?
PC

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Tom,
The "B" List,
1) 1967 Belvedere II R/O Hemi, 4-speed
2) 1971 Cuda Hemi, convertible, Shaker hood, 4-speed
3) 1970 Cuda 440 6-barrel, Shaker Hood, 4-speed, w/4.10 Dana
4) 1970 GTX 440 6-barrel, automatic, w/Air Grabber, w/4.10 gears
5) 1970 340 Duster, 4-speed, w/3.91 gears
6) 1964 Belvedere 426-S Street Wedge, automatic, w/4.10 gears
7) 1970 Cuda AAR 340 6-barrel, 4-speed, w/3.91 gears
PC

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

My friend Kelly bought that car from you. Boy, that car has some stories to tell!

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

R/T,
The fastest A-Body production (non-race car)
These A-bodies are listed with the available options.
The "M"-Code was a 'Special Car Order'. Production numbers list #360 produced and/or #343. No one knows for sure.

69' 440 Cuda, fastback, (A-727 automatic transmission only).
Came standard with 3.55 gears, the 3.91 and 4.10 were both options.
10" Drum brakes standard
Car weight #3279. The car had 197 lbs. of more weight in the nose, than the 340 Cuda..
The exhaust system was still somewhat restrictive, despite an improved
driver side cast iron exhaust manifold.
No power steering, manual only. The bolt pattern was still the smaller
5-bolt/4" bolt pattern. Wheels 14" x 5 1/2", available with only
E-70" x 14" Red-streak tires.
You did not have to order this car with the Formula 'S' package, as it came through with the heavy-duty suspension package.
(Heavy-duty torsion-bars (.89" thickness 120# rated, white stripe label), Heavy-duty front sway bar,(15/16" thickness), Firm-Ride 1" shocks, Heavy-duty 6-leaf rear springs, and Sure-Grip rear-end.
Car Life Magazine tested 13.89 @ 103.2 mph
Major problems off the line, no traction, due to nose weight and small
width tires.
With 4.10 gears and good traction, with a capable driver,
13.35's @ 108 mph.
In 1969, with 7" slicks, they would be classed in C/SA (8.50-8.99 wt/hp).
1969 C/SA National Record; 12.24 @ 114.06 (Dave Duell, 1963 Dodge Model #440 station wagon 426/425HP Stage II Max-Wedge)
PC

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

R/T,
The quickest 273/235HP Commando (HiPo) car was the
1965 Valiant V-200, 4-speed, with the optional 3.91 Sure-Grip gears for the late-year 8 3/4" rear.
The car weight was #2714, which was the lowest for the 273/235HP available cars. In 1965, the Mopars came through with a 'Hurst' shifter and linkage-mechanism as standard.
The special single-pipe exhaust system, came with a large diameter 2 1/2" "Y" pipe with free-flowing bends, a 2 1/4" straight through exhaust pipe, and special low-restriction/high-flow Hemi-style muffler (which was virtually hollowed out from the factory), and a special resonator unit tail-pipe extension with rectangular-shaped (2 1/2" x 5") chrome tipped end.
Car was capable of 15.20's @ 93 mph right off the dealer lot.
The V-200 identification, was the 'V" on the trunk lid, center of front grille, and "V-200" signature name-plates on the front fender of the full-length upper body side moldings.
The V-200 came through with lower body side moldings (between the front and back wheel-wells), bright metal roof gutte-rails, as well as a better grade carpeting, better seat upholstery, cushion arm rests, temp, oil and amp guages, as well as full-wheel covers
The cars wt/hp was 11.55 and it fell into D/S for 1965.
Bone stock, it would be highly competitive in D/S for 1965.
1966 = E/S
1967 = D/S
1968 = H/S
1969 = I/S
1970 =J/S
PC

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

It's sad that everyone goes apeshyt over the '71 Hemicuda convertible because there are only 11 accounted for.

There are only 3 '70 Hemi Roadrunner convertibles accounted for, they are a much nicer looking car, but very few people care.

B bodies don't get no love.

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

bigshow,
I would agree.
I think the 71' Hemi Cuda convertible has "Jumped the Shark".
If you owned one, could you really drive it?

An interesting B-Body, which I liked.
1969 Sport Satellite, convertible, 383/330HP 4-speed.
Up-grade interior w/bucket seats and console.
Silver-gray with black top and Magnum wheels.
You could sneak them in G/Stock in 1969.
A nice Sunday cruiser, with the wife and kids,.or with Giada Delaurentis
"Everyday Italian"
PC

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

A while back, I had a 70 Coronet 500 conv with factory 383 HP and 4 speed, 391 8 3/4 rear. Normally a guy would get either an R/T, or a regular conv with 318 or lopo 383.

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Your right. My friend Kelly bought the '71 HEMI 4-speed 'Cuda convertible from John Oliverio in 1987, at the height of that muscle car era in terms of value.
Kelly brought it to the families Plymouth dealership in the cover of darkness and hid the car from view in a far corner.
Kelly started getting calls about his ownership of the car which he denied and told everybody a joke was being played on them.
You see, they were so valuable then that Kelly was worried the car would get stolen and placed on a shipping container to Japan or some other port, never to be seen again.
It was such a "joy" to own, he sold it. Of course he made a profit. But the point is he didn't even want to acknowledge ownership, much less drive the car.
And of course he should have kept it. Ultimately, the car changed hands a few times and sold at the height of the second wave of muscle car blue chip transactions, for several million dollars. In fact, it ended up back in Arizona less than 2 miles from my house owned by a big time HEMI E-Body collector (forgot his name) who actually drove the car. In fact he let Kelly drive it from Phoenix to Las Vegas for the Mopars @ The Strip venue. In fact, the car was driven more than once across the state. So at least it got to strut its stuff (finally!).
I know this last guy sold it as he was trading "up" that niche market. One day he pulled the plug and all those cars lost value as fast as a house of cards...which is all that market was to begin with.

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Jeff,
The collector in Az. who owned the '71HemiCuda conv was "Wild" Bill Weiman, a nice, down to earth guy who drove his high dollar cars a lot. I wound up getting a '71 340 4 spd Curious yellow shaker Cuda conv from him. He had pulled the factory 391 gears and installed real tall highway gears for desert cruising. Bad combo with a 4 spd. Living in New England, I changed back to 391s.

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

R/T,
I think there is some info posted on the results of (3) 340 Dusters, as tested, all stock, with 4-speed transmissions, and E-70" x 14" GoodYears Disc brakes and power steering.
w/3.23 gears; 14.37
w/3.55 gears; 14.24
w/3.91 gears; 14.09
That sounds about right.

On the 1967 Barracuda 383/280HP car It was available with a 4-speed and/or automatic.
Weight #3202 lbs.
Big problem, super restrictive exhaust. The only gear ratio available was the 3.23.
Car lumbered a little. The 4-speed stick car could run around 15.20's @ 94 mph.
PC.

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Pesce'
Wrong thread.
But here it is.
340/275HP hydraulic camshaft .430/.444 lift w/ 268/276 duration

The 1968 340/275HP 4-speed camshaft;
.444/.453 lift w/276/284 duration

1970 340/290HP 6-barrel camshaft
.430/.444 lift w/268/276 duration
T/A heads with off-set push rod holes, and off-set adjustable rockers.

If they went through with the 340/305HP 6-barrel Ram-Air for 1971, it would have had a .484/.484 lift w/284 duration. solid lifter camshaft.

PC

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Did any of the '71 'Cuda's actually sell for over a million? There was a pretty big story on one of the Mopar boards a couple years ago about that being nothing more than collusion between the '71 owners trying to keep the prices inflated.

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

That is what was happening. How much was really traded is privy to those involved. That kind of stuff has also allegedly occurred at the big auction houses. To me, that's manipulation of trade and should be investigated by the DOJ or Atty General at the least.

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Here's a "sleeper" a friend of mine just put a 57 392 Hemi in. He's supposed to show it at a car show this Saturday.

Wayne.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...IES53/HEMI.jpg

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...ES53/HEMI2.jpg

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...ES53/HEMI3.jpg

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...ES53/HEMI4.jpg

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Memories.
1963 Fury.
That looks like the 'Ultimate Sleeper'
Super/Stock springs too???
Paul

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Deke,
The Centolanza Brothers ran a 71' Hemi Cuda convertible in
SS/E in 72' and 73'.
Vent-louvers on the front fender.
The car was painted brown (front), white (rear) and white convertible top.
11.10's but, broke many drive-train parts.

Also, there were (3) optional orders for the A-Body.
The Formula 'S" package.
And the Performance Group (a.k.a. 1965 Rallye Handling Package)
And the little known "Tow Package".
PC

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Are you sure about that, because it sounds like you're describing the old John Livingston Cuda rag-top which was originally a 71 440-6 Cuda convertible. I'm pretty sure the Centolanza Bros 71 Hemicuda convertible was painted various colors over the years because I recall seeing photo's of it in a pinkish / white color combo, and then in another blue & white color scheme, that is unless they had more then one Cuda convertible in their stable.

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Hemi-Moose,
I saw the 71' Cuda at Dover in 1973. SS/E.
Also, they were at Cecil County in 73' (Points meet)
SS/E; 11.10 Record
car #1609
May have had (2) paint jobs.
One all brown with center-stripe (white & pink)
Fenton wheels, Shaker hood, vent louvers front fender
"Cuda' lettering on back fender.

pc

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

[QUOTE=Frank Castros;197828]'62 Belvedere Sedan 383/343
'63 Savoy Sedan 426 Stage II Aluminum
'64 Belvedere Hardtop Nascar HEMI
'65 Belvedere Sedan A990 HEMI
'66 Belvedere Sedan Hp2 HEMI
'67 Belvedere Hardtop RO23 HEMI
'68 Barracuda BO29 Hemi
'691/2 Road Runner Coupe A12 440 6bbl
'70 Superbird HEMI
'71 Cuda Convertible HEMI

Frank, you made some great choices...especially where the Savoy & the '63 to'67 Belvedere's are concerned. However, after seeing how good my bud Angelo Phillips '68 GTX looks and runs, I'd like to add that and the wild (mini-Belvedere) Valiant with the wild 273 that's big block quick, to my list (like the 10 second stocker this site ran a thread on 3-5mths ago)!

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

I think a very rare 65' Coronet should be added to the list.
The one, the Dodge techs designed for the Canadien Can-Am race
across Canada (Toronto-to-Vancouver).
A 426 Hemi, with single 4-barrel cross-ram.
Modified off-road suspension.
Twin gas tanks in the trunk (40-gallon each)??
Cream colored base, red roof.
Bubble gum light on roof, and spot-light on driver-side door.
paul

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

Paul,

I have the magazine with the article on that car somewhere in the thousands of magazines that I have......do you remember the driver the car was built for? Have to look it up.

JimR

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

I sure would've Paul, but there's one problem...Coronet's are Dodge products, and when you started this thread you only spoke about Plymouths...no offense though, because I love the Car (especially after seeing Bob Marshall's "Dodge Material", and Dennis Maurer's former SS/BA Super Stockers), it's just the wrong make for this thread...sorry. :(

I wish that Chrysler would've saved the Plymouth brand name, because a Drag Pack "Cuda", would've been the shot in the arm Plymouth could've been revived by!!??

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

I guess you are correct when you said you saw the Centolanza Bros 71 Hemicuda convertible painted in those colors as you described. I must have been thinking of another 71 Hemicuda convertible owned by Masciarelli and painted in those other colors I described earlier, I'll see if I can dig up some old photo's of them. But that Centolanza Bros paint job still looks exactly like the old 71 440-6 Cuda convertible that John Livingston used to own, maybe they sold it to him after they were done with the car.

Re: "7" Plymouth's You Just Had to Have.
 

70 cuda 440+6
69 roadrunner 440+6
64 or 5 belvedere with a transplanted 340+6
57 belvedere with a transplant 392 hemi dual 4's
67 gtx hemi 4 speed
70 superbird 440+6 4 speed
scamp with a 426 hemi would be cool.