Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

I highly doubt that.

Don

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Putting words in my mouth Chad? :-)

Just seems like knowlgeble engine builders would have been consulted when purpose built combos are submitted.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

The following paragraph is from a letter that was sent to me on Jan. 30, 2009.

"It has always been NHRA's policy to use the specification produced by the manufacturer (via the Official NHRA Technical Information Form) to add a vehicle combination to the NHRA Class Guide and Blue Print Specifications. Also please keep in mind that NHRA has policies and procedures to correct any disparities the future may bring."

Signed by: Glen Gray and Danny Gracia

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Bruce, that letter is nearly two years old, but I guess if either the CJ or Drag Pac were manufactured by GM, your letter would be insignificant, and NOBODY would hear about it

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

The above mentioned letter was in response to my questions about the CJ but it also applied to all OEM's, even GM. You should actually read the post before stumbling out here to stir the pot with your little stick.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Why do you people think this is about brands? These cars are bogus and everyone on this forum knows it. Ask my buddy Verne Buchannon who is a long time Ford racer what he thinks about them. These cars should not be in the traditional stock classes no matter what car companies pu them out there.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Because that is all they have. The supporters have to play "what if" games to post any form of argument. They won't let facts get in the way of a good discussion.

Don

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

agreed. I no more want to race an LS7 powered camaro or a blown vette heads up than I do a challenger DP or a CJ mustang. I do think it would be cool to see the big three go after each other, but not at the expense of the rest of stock eliminator.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Chad,

Do you know the main reason that you won't see too many if any of the new Camaros as Stockers or SS? They are so freaking wide you can't get them in the stackers or enclosed trailers that many racers own. They may be open trailer only cars which isn't such a bad deal, IMHO.

Don

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

The nose on the camaros resemble a german half-track. Sorry.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Well here is something to think about. In say 1970, when the 68 1/2 and 69 Mustang 428 Cobra Jets and 69 396 and 427 Camaros were only a year or two old, how many of you would have defended a 1930 model T being obsoleted by the new Mustangs and Camaros? You are talking about 40 year old cars being obsoleted by new technology. Don't you think after 40 years someone could come up with something better?

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

i see a whole new market for liftgate-upper deck stackers

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

1930 Model T Stockers? Were they in the class guides?

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

if the new cars carried the same HP factor as the old model T and had to race them heads up, then yes I would. However that's a straw man/apples and oranges comparison that's a joke. No one is arguing that the technology isn't better, but the hp factors are dishonest at best.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

The 69 428 cj was rated at 335hp which was underfactored at the time along with the 69 255 hp 350 and the 67-69 290 hp z-28 Camaro when they came out. How is it any different today?

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

you could buy one on the showroom floor and drive it home????? there's a big start. If you want to "buy one and drive it home" from ford, the closest you can get ( which is a mere .030 in cam lift different) is a GT500 rated at 540.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Not to mention the older combinations mentioned weren't almost hundred horsepower soft like the modern ones...

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

The 08 Shelby is only 500 hp which is a good place to start for the CJ IMO. Fezell could have the sticks there by the end of next year the way he is running. As for the automatics I think the retired OLD blue ford from NY could out run any one of them for the right $$$, but I didn't race stock for very long and haven't raced it in over 10 years so my opion doesn't really matter

D. French out of $$ long b4 the new cars came along LOL

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Did you have to rub it in? :D

Don

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

the 2010 is rated at 540, and the NHRA factor is 435

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

So what is your point?:confused: The 08 is rated @ 500 and the NHRA factor for a stick is 449 (I think) Fezell's 08 gets it hit so often I can't keep it straight.

D. French

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Well, the hp ratings are also honest.

Chad said: the 2010 is rated at 540, and the NHRA factor is 435

That makes no sense at all.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Well you can thank our wonderful government for allowing the Car Manufacturers the chance to make these cars showroom available. With the government regulations the car companies have to deal with it is a wonder they were able to do what they did. Don't blame NHRA,Ford and Chrysler, blame the U.S. Government for not making these cars showroom available and driveable on the street.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

The point is:

IT'S SO FAR UNDERFACTORED IT IS RIDICULOUS!!!

BTW, There are NO older cars that can run with these new cars at there current HP factors PERIOD!!!

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Ford does make a street legal one, its rated at 540 HP. RACE THAT SON OF A BITCH!!!! ohh yea, its a SS/A only car and wouldn't be able to run roughshod over the rest of the class. Of course, that is, if it was even in the guide.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Amen!

You have such a way with words.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Do like we did...dial the number...cut a lite..Rick didn't crush the index but won the event.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

If your happy bracket racing & don't have a heads up that will work.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

I would be happy to race a stock Shelby just as soon as all the guys racing the old cars give up the parts that don't make their cars original production showroom available. These include Siamese bore replacement blocks, superceded cylinder heads, cams, intake manifolds, carburators, Lightweight transmissions , carbon fiber hoods in place of fiberglass, and rear axles in place of what came from the factory. Many of these items affect the original horsepower rating and don't make it fair for the people that have to race the oem parts because there were none available for their combinations. How many 1963 to 2010 Corvettes were built from the factory without the swing arm axles? None! Well guess what your car isn't a showroom available piece either. If you say that NHRA allows us to do that, well guess what, NHRA has approved the Drag Pak and Cobra Jets also.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

The same number as Dodge DP's that came from the factory with a rear end of any kind !

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

This is a safety change that made some sense because the IRS was not designed for drag racing. The 1/8" fiberglass floors in these cars do not offer any protection when one of these rears comes apart. Heard of one racer who had his elbow chewed off.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

This safety change is well know but he wanted to know how many Corvettes came from the factory with swing axles vs solid rears. At least the Corvette could run under its own power and thats more than can be said about the Dodge DP's that came with a trailer axle and I believe the transmission did not have any internal parts either. What a joke !

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

The days of taking a showroom car and running Stock are long gone. Two things have happened. First, the Feds have added so many safety and fuel economy requirements to the new cars that there is a huge amount of stuff that can now be legally removed. Second, the racers have pushed hard for years to allow all these things to be removed.

I know that you love to hate these cars, but they do make sense. Both cars fit the current rules. Both pass tech (when properly prepared). All the factories prepared cars in the same manner back in the sixties too. You just weren't allowed to change as much back then.

The power plants are where the arguments should really be focused.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

I believe that is what he was pointing out! What's good for the goose.......

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Seems to me that he knew that as well. Maybe he didn't. But we agree.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Are you serious? The power plants have been the focus of the arguments. It was dwydenorf that was bringing up the rear ends. The critics of these factory race cars have been focusing on the power plants.

Speaking of power plants, how many 5.7 Drag Paks have been produced by the factory? How many 5.9 Drag Paks have been produced by the factory? If there weren't at least 50 then they don't meet the rules. I think there were at least 50 of the 6.1 to weakly meet that part of the rules.

Either way, why is it so hard for anyone to understand that these cars should stay in stock, but in their own class? This is such a simple solution and isn't a loss for one single competitor. I take that back. It is a loss for the competitor that feels an unlevel playing field is their ticket to the next round. There is no other justification.

Don

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

The bodus hp ratings of the power plants ARE the focus of the arguments.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

The transmissions are real and serviceable. And the rearend has the IRS assembly without the guts.

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

Gump,

I will save you the trouble because I found what I was looking for. According to Jeff Teuton who I would trust knows about as much about these cars as anyone the production figures are.

6.1 90 units
5.7 7 units
5.9 3 units

Now tell me how the 5.7 and the 5.9 engine combos meet the NHRA rule book?

Reserved for 1960 or new model-year factory-production automobiles and some sports cars. Classified per NHRA performance rating as listed in the Official NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. Only those cars listed in the guide are eligible for competition. All cars in Stock classes must be factory-production assembled, showroom available, and in the hands of the general public. A minimum 500 units of a particular body style must be produced.

OEM may apply for inclusion of any special production runs into the Official NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. Special run must include a minimum of 50 units of an already accepted body style, need not be showroom available. Applications evaluated on an individual basis. Acceptance will not imply precedent.

Ok, there are a couple of glaring issues. One that jumps out is All cars in Stock classes must be factory-production assembled. The Drag Paks come partially assembled. The racer must complete the car.

The second paragraph trumps the "showroom available and in the hands of the general public." But the second paragraph also states that there must be a minimum of 50 units. Three 5.9 and seven 5.7 are a long ways from 50. You cannot combine them to get there.

These don't meet the NHRAs own rule book for Stock classification and the 6.1 doesn't since it is partially assembled. They are factory race cars that should be in their own class along with the Cobra Jets. Keep them in stock and I would be glad to dial against them.

Don

Re: What would you do with the current CJ and DP car situation?
 

First off:

This whole thread is filled by 10 negative people repeating their beliefs only!

Could they be called "Proffessional Whiners"

Secondly - You have to redefine "factory assembled". In todays world the factories are spread across continents, with many subassembly and contract assembly plants. Detroit is an assembly plant now , not a manufacturer's plant

Regarding the 5.7 and 5.9 Drag Paks, the guide you quote for the 50 car specialty run says "body style", Not "engine combination"

Read your own post's with your interpretations and you get what you want.

Have a nice day!