Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

you stole my thunder!!!

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

The only pre 1960 cars in the tech guide are Cadillac and Chevrolet. The 57s are natural 11-20 pound cars. It will be interesting to see how much these combos will pick up with all the superceded heads,carbs,manifolds and aftermarket trans, corporate rears, etc. Let the fun begin.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

Lets see, three orign chev tri-powers sitting on the shelf. What can we build???

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

I couldn't agree with you more Michael!!!

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

About the block rule: a NHRA approved aftermarket cylinder blocks" for s/ss
That is good news for the V-6 guys. Since GM has quit casting the Bowtie V-6 block there is a shortage. Brian Browell has stepped up and had blocks & heads cast and NHRA approved. That just about seals the deal on the new V-6 blocks for Comp through Stock. Since we can't count on GM or other MFG's to continue to supply parts I think it is the next step for NHRA to modify the rules to help us keep racing.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

Blossom digs out the old AT/SA Syclone and puts 30lb of boost in with an aftermarket alum block......

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

I'm waiting for that too!

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

Nowhere except top fuel, funny car, pro stock, ps motorcycles, super comp, super gas, and super street..... Plus class elims in stock and SS...

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

I don't believe that the 55 and up rule will benefit anyone except the tri-five Chevy's. What other cars would be competitive, what other brands are being run in SS that might be able to compete as a stocker?

No Mopars, Pontiacs, Buicks, Olds, Fords or other brands are being run in SS, so who does it help?

JimR

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

I'm wondering how an LS4 wwith a factory rating of 303 HP in an Impala would compare to the GMC turbo charger v6. Impala shows a 3711# shipping weight or 12.25 # per hp. Don't see how u ccould get to the 11.00# or around 3350#. Maybe Chevy has a secret superceded body to get the weight out. Does anyone know if the LS4 aluminum block motor in the 2006 up Impala is the same 5.3 that was in the SSR?

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

Well obviously if both cars leave at the same time, then the FIRST red light would be the WORST red light. I was referring to anywhere with a handicapped tree, most would realize that. The slower car has the advantage of the clean tree, the fast car has the advantage of the First red light. I don't see the problem with that, neither does most of the class racing, and bracket racing communities.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

I guess I'm in the 5% advocating worst red light loses. Many want the "driver" to be recognized in the equation, a .495 red vs a .437 red would indicate that the first red light did a better job of driving

True, there are equal advantages (now) with clean tree vs first red light, but conveniently ignoring the better advantage of having the race in front of you...the best advantage

Not a big deal to me compared to mufflers, better hooking consistent tracks, better pits, shorter races, consistent tech and on and on....just voicing my 5%

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

Why don't we just line up for a qualifying shot, put our shoe polish on the window, and give the Wally to the best package. That would put the driver in it, right? Actually they already do that at our local track. It's called "run for the money", and even then it's a side show.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

Im with you 1000% on this. All of the fast guys conveniently "forget" the advantage of having the race in front of them all the way down the track. Hummmmm, maybe thats why the super class racers build big inch engines and run high MPH to keep their opponent out in front of them.....LOL.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

And the slow cars conveniently forget the advantages they have, not seeing the other car leave first, less time on the chip, the converter, and the brakes, as well as less worry about the rapidly growing problem of questionable track prep.

If you built a slower car knowing about the first red light rule, well, you knew the rules, they haven't changed in around 45 years. I guess you'd build a house between an airport and a landfill, then complain about jet noise and the garbage smell.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

In this case you could also say the first redlight loses.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

What, precisely, is a "clean tree"?

Is that the same thing as a "clean finish line"?

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

the clean tree would be that the slower car doesn't have to block out the distraction of the other car's lights coming down (some trees have dividers, some do not). You also don't see the other car leave out of your peripheral vision.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

I have only met a few racers that honestly prefer being the slower car all the rest are just racers that say that because they can't afford to be the fastest car. We've had the Xmas tree since the early 60's but until the reaction timer was introduced the slower car didn't know he had done a better job of driving only to be eliminated. Just as the best light's reward comes as a finish line cushion. The worst red light should be grounds for elimination. I'd like to hear some more about all those advantages that the slower cars have other than costs. LOL Maybe the rules haven't changed in the past 45 years but a whole bunch of variables sure have been introduced in that time that these old rules do not take into account.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

exactly. When big money bracket races, NHRA's bracket series, and local tracks go to a WORSE redlight rule, then it might be time to think about it for stock/SS/Comp. But Stock and Superstock is not the place to try this experiment.

A question for the proponents of this rule, name me one track in the US that uses a WORSE redlight rule in their weekly bracket program?

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

Oh, now I understand. You mean, sort of like the recent win that Keith Lynch had over Slate Cummings: Lynch dialed at 10.28 and Cummings at 10.69.

Yes, obviously Cummings had this "clean tree".

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

Treesavoy...how about the 55-60 Corvettes that have an inherent advantage w/ a 36" driveshaft as opposed to a tri-five sedan w/ the same engine/induction combination, along with a Jerico trans. and corporate 12 bolt and Calvert bars. Not to mention 55-57 Paxton supercharged Ford Thunderbirds w/four spd (Jerico/G force) trannies and 9" rear to spice up the action. Does anyone remember the 56-57 Plymouth Furies w/two fours and pushbutton touqreflite that terrorized the '57 Chevies. There is a ton of nostalgia 59-64 Chevy 409 freaks out there racing right now that have been waiting to get into the action.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

well ignoring all your "spin" on that, yes that's what I am talking about. It's not a guaranteed win, but neither is gambling that your opponent goes red before you do. And finish line shenanigans can be played from both sides, fast or slow.

Keith drove an excellent race, and beat a very tough competitor. I would say that the outcome of that race would have the same probability for that outcome if Keith was in the slower car.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

Why is it whenever the " Worst Redlight Rule" is brought up, people only see the scenario such as an A/SA vs an M/SA? They forget it could be an M/SA vs a N/SA. Now the M is the faster car eventhough by most people's standards it's considered a "Slow car". Or how about AA/SA vs A/SA? The A car is now the "Slow car". When the dial-ins are only a few thousandths apart,regardless of class designation, where is your "clean tree"? When both cars go green, the best package is declared the winner.When both drivers go red, please tell me why the guy who redlighted the least shouldn't be rewarded with the victory since he did the best job of driving and the dial-ins are no longer a factor? I'm with you Bunkster and loved your comeback picture.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

Im a slow car, always will be a slow car! i have a fix for it. just stop giving out R.T.s that will fix it all. you have a starting line, and a finish line, and you both have the same one!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe ill just put mine back on the street! go to car shows way less bitching
mike dean
3870

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

I also believe the worst red light should lose.

Why hasn't it been done that way? Because the technology hasn't been available before. The local tracks won't spend the bucks to purchase the latest timing system if they don't have to. And, the NHRA likes seeing the wheelstanding faster cars out there. More exicting and spectator friendly as part of their big show.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

I guess the drivers complaining must red light alot.
Why dont you crying no racing donkeys get off the computer.
And you same donkeys want to get rid of HEADS UP RACING..
Do us all a favor and take up golf or TV couch potato racing..
Or be .200 in the tree AND YOU WONT GO RED!!

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

I think we should leave it the way it is! what make the diff? if im the first car to leave, and i go red i should have lost any way! just the way it is!!!!!!!if your all that worried about it better hit the practice tree and just not red light, sounds easer than looking for a excuses why you got beat!, and trust me im never the last to leave!

Mike Dean
G/SA 3870

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

348's maybe but the 409 wasnt introduced until 1961.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

I'm always the first to leave in superstock.
Worst red light would benifit me. But I built the car knowing what the rules were. I have no business crying to change them after the fact.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

James, what the hell does 'worst red light' have to do with getting rid of heads up runs? Diffenent issues.
I think maybe you're the donkey or maybe just a horses ***.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

I agree about the Corvettes but whose going to modify a car that's worth $70,000.00 and it's even worse with the blown fords, they are woth anywhere from $100,000 and up. Amos Minter, the best Thundredbird restorer in th world, sells his blown birds for $250,000 and up!

When was the last time you even saw a early Fury much less a two four car? There is probably enough parts and cars around that you could build a 348 or 409 car but would it be competitive? The '56 Chrysler 300 which was the first car to be manufactured with one HP per cubic inch (sorry chevy guys) might be a factor but they are all in Museums.

The tri-five cars are most abundant, a majority racers are chevy guys, and more developement has been done on the small block chevy than any other engine ever produced.

Nope, this rule only helps tri-five chevy guys and here's the general outlook that you'll find. I own a '58 Pontiac Chieftan sedan with the 370 engine, 3-2's, auto and posi. These cars were the scourge of D/SA in the day turning mid 14's, my car has 28k original miles and in todays classification it falls in I/SA. Do you think I'm going to modify a $40,000.00 car only to be uncompetitive? Nope!

Lastly, no one makes racing parts for anything but the tri-fives for all the other combinations everything would have to be hand made or some manufacturer would have to be convinced to manufacture parts for these out of date cars.

JimR

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

Now would be the perfect time to finally utilize the software that's already been written, so that the WORST red light is the loser.
Ans;Get a life and a real name


Well obviously if both cars leave at the same time, then the FIRST red light would be the WORST red light. I was referring to anywhere with a handicapped tree, most would realize that. The slower car has the advantage of the clean tree, the fast car has the advantage of the First red light. I don't see the problem with that, neither does most of the class racing, and bracket racing communities.
I've very rarely left first.I knew going in that I have the first chance at going red.No big deal.The fairness is no distractions at the tree.


True, there are equal advantages (now) with clean tree vs first red light, but conveniently ignoring the better advantage of having the race in front of you...the best advantage

Correcto.


Im with you 1000% on this. All of the fast guys conveniently "forget" the advantage of having the race in front of them all the way down the track. Hummmmm, maybe that's why the super class racers build big inch engines and run high MPH to keep their opponent out in front of them.....LOL

Also correcto.

If you built a slower car knowing about the first red light rule, well, you knew the rules, they haven't changed in around 45 years. I guess you'd build a house between an airport and a landfill, then complain about jet noise and the garbage smell.

Great comeback.

I have only met a few racers that honestly prefer being the slower car all the rest are just racers that say that because they can't afford to be the fastest car. We've had the Xmas tree since the early 60's but until the reaction timer was introduced the slower car didn't know he had done a better job of driving only to be eliminated. Just as the best light's reward comes as a finish line cushion. The worst red light should be grounds for elimination. I'd like to hear some more about all those advantages that the slower cars have other than costs. LOL Maybe the rules haven't changed in the past 45 years but a whole bunch of variables sure have been introduced in that time that these old rules do not take into account.

I can eat a snack going up the track,brush my teeth,and then set myself up for the grand finale at the stripe.
Seriously,I like being a turtle.I can always find a spot to hook up on and if I doo my job can make the right decision at the stripe.

Why is it whenever the " Worst Redlight Rule" is brought up, people only see the scenario such as an A/SA vs an M/SA? They forget it could be an M/SA vs a N/SA. Now the M is the faster car even though by most people's standards it's considered a "Slow car". Or how about AA/SA vs A/SA? The A car is now the "Slow car". When the dial-ins are only a few thousandths apart,regardless of class designation, where is your "clean tree"? When both cars go green, the best package is declared the winner.When both drivers go red, please tell me why the guy who red lighted the least shouldn't be rewarded with the victory since he did the best job of driving and the dial-ins are no longer a factor? I'm with you Bunkster and loved your comeback picture.

Want a clean tree? Build a Q and down car.Want the foul and chase advantage?Build a
AA car.In between?Work at being a better driver.Pretty simple.Don't blame outside influences for your shortcomings.

I guess the drivers complaining must red light alot.
Why dont you crying no racing donkeys get off the computer.
And you same donkeys want to get rid of HEADS UP RACING..
Do us all a favor and take up golf or TV couch potato racing..
Or be .200 in the tree AND YOU WONT GO RED!!
Eloquently said.
I think we should leave it the way it is! what make the diff? if im the first car to leave, and i go red i should have lost any way! just the way it is!!!!!!!if your all that worried about it better hit the practice tree and just not red light, sounds easer than looking for a excuses why you got beat!, and trust me im never the last to leave!

#1 answer of the thread.

I'm always the first to leave in superstock.
Worst red light would benifit me. But I built the car knowing what the rules were. I have no business crying to change them after the fact.

#2 best answer.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

When I started racing in 1902 at Atco it was governed by NASCAR ( yes, kiddies, they once governed drag racing) they used what they called the "Leavers lose" system which was one yellow then green.

They also had a foul rule that was easy, "First is worst", the first foul was the worst and that driver was out no matter what the other driver did. Even if the second car hit the wall and totaled his car the first foul guy was out.

Simple, easy.

JimR

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

that part could make a lot of the import and outlaw 10.5 shows one round, or less. lol

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

This is the first time that I am trying to load some pictures.

I think this will NOW fit O-P-Q stock? Dad just got it finished for the street....Took him a long time, by himself. Oh well. It will go with the other on he built...

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

Jim,when you started in 1902 did you ever get to meet Henry Ford?:>):>):>)Did they have Firestone slicks then?

You're right about Nascar sanction at Atco.I have a weekly paper from Atco from about 1965 with the Nascar logo at the top of the page.

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

Nice car Robert.But are those expando rims necessary ?

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

No, just different...

Re: 2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes
 

Wow, here come the $3000 rockers.