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You guys also didn't mention. There used to be two more SS modified stock classes for FWD. They got rid of them and added SS/EX So the net loss was one.
As far as the new gears goes. I applaud the Cobra Jets and the Drag Packs.
Because you guys whine about the cost of one of those cars. Go try to get a one of gear set made? There is very little interest in such things For the guys that want to go fast with out rules they just put a huge turbo and intercooler on. And gear ratio doesn't make a difference.

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If you suggested it, that tells me I'm not terribly far off base.

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Funny, I came to the same 3 lb. conclusion as you and Alan when I was tumbling the numbers around the other day.

I've got the transfer gear, etc from Mopar that comes out to a 3.73 final drive. I was always told that that was the best ratio that could be done for my transaxle without cutting the case, which I was told was illegal. Is all or part of that not true? You have my attention! This car's dying for some gear & tire!

I thought people kept telling us we need to work harder! (like nobody ever moves classes now...)

So how is it that people move up or down one from their natural class now?

Guess the majority's opinion is that this is a performance eliminator... as long as I have my own class, set up just the way I want it. :rolleyes:

It's no skin off my back if nothing changes... I do enjoy the mental gymnastics involved in the discussion, if nothing else. I'm just a bracket racer that thought Class Racers might appreciate the possibility of a few more heads-up runs (sure wouldn't benefit *me*, so it can hardly be labeled as "an agenda"!), more competition in Class, and less classes to boost potential sponsor involvement and payouts. I thought the long-term advantages would outweigh the short-term speedbump. Big picture. -=shrug=-

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BTW Alan I run a spool. And I can drive my car around the pits it isn't easy but it's possible

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Some move classes to hide from other cars. Some move to increase their chances of more heads up runs, as in getting free rounds. A few even wait to tech in, missing 1st round of qualifying just to see where everyone is classed. With 1 lb breaks, changing class would be a lot of weight to adjust. Think everyone would do it safely?

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Art,
I said the cars (transmissions) have a differential when they're built. I didn't say you couldn't lock the differential, or in the case of a Chrysler, put a spool in it.

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If they are allowed to just run thier natural class with 1 lb breaks there is no wt. problem.

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These transmissions are a sore subject with me. Right now I'm having trans brake / valve body problems And I'm having to learn about it as I go along. There is nobody that wants anything to do with my unit.

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Things we didn't need to know for a $1000, Alex............

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My wife is no longer interested in my unit.

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We need to stop worrying about the front drive cars! What problem do the 15 total cars in the country cause anyone on this forum? We have a a handful of underfactored cars out there that need to be dealt with and that in itself is where the source of all of this whining comes from. I think the factors are a joke but I am not on here asking for a major change of the system either. Other than that quit asking for constant modification of the system or who knows who the next modification of the systym may be. I may be too young to have been there but they killed off older stockers before and dont think that may not happen again. I know they let 1955 cars in but NHRA has a minid of its own and with a stroke of the pen that could be changed to 1985 and the inadequacy problems would be gone.

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Why kidd Ed? I thought they were going to do that back when the fwd stockers were cut in (less than) half last decade. I was prepared to race as a V/SA car...heck their indexes are nearly the same, so it wouldn't have been that much of an adjustment. Besides, I think it would be cool to see a fwd AF/S, or BF/S vehicle going heads up with a current T/SA, or U/SA class car in a heads-up class final!!!

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Well said Owen, but much to our dismay M/T no longer makes the 20" tall slicks...the 8" wide ones were sold out, and I bought two of the last 3 slicks that M/T had in their online "Garage Sale" section, this past summer (unless the mail order folks have large enough quantities of them for our benefit?). When those wear out, I'm going to have to start using the D.O.T. 22" or "24" tires they have available, or change my wheel size to use other slick sizes that might fit, from Goodyear, or M&H?

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Hey Gary
You want to sell those 20" tires Lol.

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Dennis, back in the old days, Goodyear made some 6"x 20" Formula Vee tires that worked fine on the Sunbird. They were a 13' rim size though. They weren't listed in the Drag Tire catalog though. Might try to find a Road Racing cat. or maybe they have a websight?

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At least according to the website, I got the last two 20x8-14's in existence off the garage sale site, back in January. Evidently, there must've been a couple more hiding in the back room! :p Might've been hidden inside somebody's Pro Mod tire. LOL They checked the date code on the ones we took off.... they were 14 years old! One of them was dead (cracked sidewall), but the other is actually still fine and has plenty of dot left on it. Kept as a spare.

Eventually, may have to buy new wheels and taller slicks. (22x8-15's or 22x8-13's for more sidewall) Wonder if it might help more than hurt? Ever play with them, Dennis?

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Never tried 22x8x13 but I do have set of the 22x8x15. But I just liked the way the car ran with the 20s but will see.

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I don't run Stock, so don't have a dog in that fight.

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I might have to consider it Dennis, but like someone else said, I like these tires because they fit my lightweight Cragar (14" X 8") wheels. I'll have to buy bigger or smaller wheels in order to use those sizes that Billy spoke of here, and I'm not ready to do that yet. So I'll wear these out, and go from there.

However, one reason I'm lookin forward to the different sized tires is by going at least 2" taller, I'll be able to stop having to change over from taller trailer fitting tires, to being able to go to the races ready to unload the car, and head right to tech...at 52 I;m not much of a spring chicken anymore...lol!!!

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Heck Gary, wait until your 67!

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Gary I am 57 I know what you mean Lol

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Anybody got any 4x100mm 15x4-ish rims? I'd really like to ditch the steel-belted radials I have on the back of the Turismo in favor of some M/T front-runners.

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Mike I think the Honda guys use a 4x100mm bolt pattern Try there websites.
You will have to steam the rice off them though. LOL

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If the 14" tires are not available anymore It will slow me down a bunch It will be like switching from a 3.73 gear to a 3.0 gear. I guess I'll have to go over on the crybaby side and beg for a softer index.
Nah!!!! only fooling LOL I'll never go over. LOL


I know there are circle track tires that are 20" tall but don't know how they'll hook.

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is there a short drag radial availalbe? maybe a M/T ET Drag for a bike?

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I tried drag radials a ways back they were still 22" tall and were not any good in the traction dept. Remember there is not much we can do to help traction, weight transfer is our enemy.

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No you don't!

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Mike,
get to be good friends with your local recycling/salvage yard and ask to look at their Hollander wheel book. With some studying you would be surprised to find what is readily available.... and I would think someone already has a 4x100 15" wheel

Unk

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I love people who petition to have autos and sticks combined when they have never driven or tried to maintain a stick car. Ya let's do that so the remaining 5 stick cars in super stock (Hemis aside) will surely convert to automatic.

Take off your skirt and build a stick combo if you feel stick cars are unfairly getting a class win here and there. I double dog dare ya! As for clutchless, nope I don't have one, I know how to whack a clutch, rip a 30 year old Doug Nash, and still be consistent.

Here is a suggestion that I don't know if it has ever been proposed or tried in the past: To eliminate all the single runs that everyone is so upset with.. why not be more strict on car classification? At your first divisional of the year, choose the class your car will run (either natural, up one, or down one) and you must run it for all the divisional events. As for nationals, whatever class you put down on your online registration the day you pay your $270 is the class you must run when you arrive at the gate. Haven't they been letting cars switch when they get to tech?

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No you were right on buying the last pair of 20x8"x14" slicks...the pair I bought were part of the last three 20x6x14's that they had. Thank GOD I kept my factory mags, because my Cragar's are too wide for those skinny things, and when my 1yr old 8" slicks wear out, that's when I'm going to have to use the DOT slicks, or else buy some smaller/larger wheels that'll allow me to use those other tires that Dennis spoke of. However, after the races I attended in Sept. where I didn't do burnouts for a change, I think I may be alright with those taller tires in the future...heck if Mustangs can run 8-9sec quarters with them, my 15sec ride should be able to hook good with 'em given that they're a taller tire than those slicks are???

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Ed, congrats for your making it to 67!!! I hope I can make it to 67...heck into my 70's would be awesome...but it's not all up to me for that? I'll say this though, the time I waste changing those street towing tires that I have on my front end during my travels, to the slicks, will be eliminated...thus being race ready once the car is off of the trailer!

I had the ideal given to me to adjust the angle of my trailer during loading and unloading, so I could tow my car as such, but those small slicks didn't hold air like the bigger ones you rwd racers use (even with tubes in them???), so that was a "one and done" effort for me!

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Now Art, that's more than LOL funny, that's ROLOL..(ROLLING OVER)!!!

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I'm with you Art on the tire size thing, and I was hoping that I could prove it the same on my car by checking out how my car ran at the Div. 5 ET Finals in Topeka this year...driving around the water, auto shifting, and not stahling my convertor. My best run was .23 over the index for DF/S, which I would've accepted if not for one other comparo...I went back to the same race (2006), where I had my did the burnouts, manual shifted my tranny, and stahled my convertor to 3600rpm.'s. I couldn't believe it, but I ran the exact same best e.t. of 15.53! So now that we have to deal without our beloved 14" wheeled slicks, I'm going to have to replace that lost momentum somewhere else...like a cam change and/or a set of headers!!! Speaking of the latter, Does anyone here know if someone is still in posession of a set of the headers that Hooker used to make for the 60 degree Chevy V6? Randy Hyman seemingly is the only person (other than me) that's running that engine, and his (formerly Linda Sherman D-1) Citation is the only one I know of that has those (now defunct) headers on it? Otherwise, I'll have to scrap my pennies together to have a customized set built...the only offer I've heard of so far was $1,000 for a set (for a six-cylinder engine when V8 regular headers can be had in a Jegs or Summit catalog for less than half of that), seems a bit much...too much for me anytime soon!!!

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Gary, You used to be able to buy S -10 header pieces from Hooker and maybe others.
That's what I used for the Citation. Write or call me. I CAN be bought... You know , you're looking at 4 tenths, right now !

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Gary, Not to worry. I will be testing my transaxle with a 4:47 ratio next year and if it stays together I will be able to provide you with a set for around $800. It will include both sprockets, uses the stock length chain, and you will need the 3.33 factory diff. You will need to turn down the outside diameter of the drive sprocket retainer about an eighth of an inch and do a little grinding inside the chaincase for the driven sprocket clearance but that's about it. After the install, you will be able to use a 23-24 inch tall tire and still have more gear than you run now.

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I actually found a pretty light set of 4x100 15x5 wheels from Enkei, but am checking with Holeshot on weight, price, etc, too.

Re: headers... There was actually a bit of stuff made for the 2.2's, as they were popular SCCA cars. I've got a Hooker Super Comp header on the Turismo.

Re: gear ratios, I didn't think you could cut the case. "Any gear ratio that fits third member case or housing permitted"

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Owen, I'm running a 3.73 (4cyl J car) planetary in my car now...it's been so long since I changed it over from the factory 2.7-2.9 6cyl factory planetary the car came oem with...would my current gearing be too much? As for that set you have, I'll keep that in mind, but I'll also have what Mark spoke of in mind too (especially if it's cheaper)? Right now I'm dealing with some other looming possibilities for 2011, and my funds are focused on that. Furthermore, my car and I are over 900 miles apart, and it's getting snowed on...however I'd prefer that to being outside in the summer-time temps and wind/dust storms we had the previous 2mths.! Thank you, and you too Mark, for some options that will get me those highly appreciated 4tenths I will greatly appreciate the next time I race at a humid track like Topeka!!!

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Gary, The 3.73 ratio in your transaxle is accomplished using a 3.33 planetary final drive differential unit and a set of 33/37 drive chain sprockets. Both combine for an effective ratio of 3.73, the best ratio available using factory parts. So you will be fine with that diff. I currently have a set of 33/41 sprockets for a ratio of 4.14 and will be moving to a 29/41 set next year for the 4.47's. That is the limit of the available room inside for the 41 tooth driven sprocket. Like I said, next year I will be testing to make sure that the input shaft of the transaxle can handle the increased torque input before I sell anyone a set.

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Good Luck with that Owen, and keep me posted please. Since we don't have the aftermarket support that the rwd's have, anything someone like you (and Mark, etc.) with more mechanical savy than I have (which probably is a bunch), will be greatly appreciated! Sometimes I wonder why I'm racing a car in the fuel injection era, when my level of mechanical knowledge/training was circa 1979.

It sure was easier to take 2sec.'s off of my '76 Vega that I raced 31yrs ago, than it was this car. I had a chance to buy it back, but since my original engine & tranny were swapped out for a Pontiac motor & a 4spd, I would've had to hunt for the originals and I felt that in the early 90's that would've been tuff to do hence this car. However, I still like the challenge out there to try and do something no-one has done this century, or since Mark Yaccavone's national event win, and the guy who won the one and only fwd stocker divisional race as well, which is why I'm glad I have this car. Furthermore, unless Billy Nees did it when he raced a fwd car (or Art, Mark, Linda, or Steve), I'm not sure if any fwd stockers ever finished in a divisional (much less national) Top Ten in Stock Eliminator points standings? Those quests are still out there waiting for those of us who take the road less traveled with regards to our racing vehicles, and I'm game for the challenge (the primary reason I chose this car)!!!

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Gary
Bill O'conner won div 7 points race in the 90s and I thing Michael Beard finish top 10 div 1 about 10 years ago.