Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

I follow the contingency deal pretty much. I could make $750 for a class win. Mopar paying $550 of it. The only sponsor I didn't have was Jiffy-Tite, Because I could not see buying fittings I would not need.
Most racers I talk to tell me they can only make a couple of hundred bucks to win class. With the number of classes a lot of them have no cars at all so no money is paid.
If you have an old national dragster look up the postings and you will see what I mean.
We are not talking about that much money here.
I feel this move is nhra's way of cutting expenses. they will give away a lot less jr oscars.
I don't believe they could care less if we run class or not. Or if we earn contingency money for it.
The new stuff is coupled with the reinstituting of the oil down policies, and the fines for pit vehicles. And I'll bet there is more to come shortly.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Art, how about we leave Dick Butler out of this? What has he got to do with anything anyway?


How many classes do we need?


When you have as many singles for class as you have contested races, you have too many classes.

It's called drag racing not drag soloing.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Alan In the sixties drag racing had 50 classes in stock. It was designed to give everybody a place to race. If you had a 6 cylinder packard, or a hudson hornet, there was a place for it. 55 chevy or a chrylser 300 there was a place for it
It seems like a lot of you guys only want to include the muscle cars. Not everyone can afford a 69 camaro or 70 barracuda. These "oddball" classes without a lot of competition in them are basicly affordable. To get them to run on the index is not to expensive. And people can have fun. If someone else builds a car for the class so be it.
These are the cars you want to do away with.
What really gets to me is a lot of you on here have accepted nhra's BS about the class win monies.
Alan if you won class last year. How much could/did you make?

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

This is one of the better ideas.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Art, when did I say anything about doing away with any cars? I have no idea where you got that.

I said "consolidate classes, to an extent", meaning 1 pound weight breaks starting at 7.0.

I'm good with them letting the 55-59 cars back in, I wish there were more in the guide. I never said anything about doing away with any cars, and actually, for the most part, 1.0 pound weight breaks sure wouldn't make the least bit of difference to people already racing in the lower classes with 1.0 weight breaks to begin with.

We defended our class title at St. Louis last year, we beat Fletcher to do it. We got a Wally, and a few hundred bucks in contingency money.

When did Stock Eliminator become "me too" Eliminator? I thought it was about performance and racing, you know, actually having to race against another car in your class to win a class Wally and a few bucks.

I can easily see the point of a contingency sponsor NOT wanting to pay a bunch of people to simply show up at the track and drive through. And I can see the point of fans wanting to see an actual race, instead of a punch and coast single pass, too. They came to see a race. The spectators and the sponsors certainly have a reasonable expectation to see some real racing in a class that is supposedly a performance based eliminator. Those are the people we need to start trying to make happy. Without both of them, we are not going to last a whole lot longer.

Ken, you replied to Art while I was writing this, I'll be glad to edit it, or delete it if you like.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

First, that goes back to the long-debated issues of the AHFS and the problems with how well combinations are factored. I've been saying for years now, take the years of data we have accumulated, and refactor EVERYTHING just once, right now, and then you could leave it virtually untouched for quite some time, and nobody would have to "protect their combo" anymore. The whole point of the AHFS is that if it's fast enough to get HP, then the combo is not factored correctly in the first place. As usual, don't hate the player, hate the game, but until they change the game, people will continue to play the game... which is completely contrary to the performance enthusiast's goals.

Secondly, the point was made in regards to Records based on actually having a solid contingency program, so yes, Records would pay, possibly significantly. And hoping not to paint with too broad of a brush or offend anyone, but realistically the record-setter go-fast guy and the eliminator winner are not always the same guys. Man! Remember the cam wars? (I was born too late, but heard stories) Creating some *serious* incentives for both Class and National Records and then actually *marketing* them? I know, crazy talk...

Re: FWD cars going away... I think this happened for multiple reasons. The consolidating of the classes went overboard, creating weight breaks so spread out to the point that the weight differences would never be seriously considered for the upper-level 'regular' Stock classes. They could've consolidated the classes without cutting them THAT deeply. I think another major consideration, one that affected a significant number of slower RWD classes as well, was the elimination of Deep Staging. That decision was helped along by the "majority rules" thought process... and people wonder why there are so many cars 11-sec and quicker now. :rolleyes: "Careful what you wish for."

I won't rehash it here, but there were plenty of ideas posted earlier this winter about how to *reasonably* consolidate classes. But again, the majority didn't want anything to do with it, so you get something else handed to you.

Also something that I've promoted for years was simple *marketing* of the classes. Announcers have a considerable amount of control over the crowd, and they can leverage that. Presentation is key. I'll say it again: watch Larry Pfister's Horsepower Heaven videos, and love it or hate it, the *presentation* of PINKS All Out drew massive crowds and TV ratings to watch cars no faster and certainly not as unique as S/SS cars. And this conversation is nothing new. I remember talking about it in the '90s. Make the *choice* to market S/SS racing properly, and the sky is the limit.

$.02,

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Michael ,You are right about the announcers having a lot to do with almost "every class.".. I notice at ALL the Nationals i have attended (both HRA's) , when the pros are done the announcer would tell everyone in the stands to go to the pits and get autographs and pics and t-shirts and ect.......... The croud then follows the announcers advice and Wa- La the majority of the croud is gone from the stands and here come the sportsman cars and drivers with hardly no spectators.......PUBLICITY is in DEMAND for these classes to get any spectator interest ,which in turn will draw sponsors back to the scene.....Makes since ,don't it ??? Used to be called PROMOTIONS...........

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Thanks Kenny, I was thinking the same thing when I came up to your post. Art, you planned, built, race and own a machine for one specific reason and it worked for years, I completely understand your intentions and I'm sorry that a change has you upset. YOU Sir, actually have a combo that could WIN the National Class Championship !!! (no need to respond)

People, this is 2011, change in Class racing must occur for it to survive whether it be with or without payments. I had a long and fantastic conversation with Charlie N at NHRA today, I haven't heard him so excited about a contingency and award program for a long time. He is now aware of this post as I told him of the great, constructive ideas coming out. You all must believe that he, and the committee really do care to keep it going as Manufacturers were jumping of the cliff like lemmings, i.e. follow the leader. There was not to be any postings for the 2011 season the way it was. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The committee is comprised of major Manufactures Representitives, NHRA personnel from Technical, Marketing, Competition and others, in other words, a pretty well rounded group of savvy and smart business people.

Since the changes have been made, only a couple of days ago, one new payer has signed up along with most of last years contributors. Yea, it's kinda late but they have been conferencing and shooting a lot of ideas around, there were many ideas that didn't make it.

This message board has a say, don't be fooled otherwise, racer input is important to them and they really appreciate constructive criticism.

This year is gonna be a little painful for some, ya just can't please everyone, at least we have something in place. While I brought up a few issues to Charlie, it seems as though they had already discussed most of them, ie, bonus 5 points for a winner, rain outs would be high qualifier as it is now and each winner gaining 10 points, if no cars go down the track for whatever reason the program serves as a zero for all. Some of the ideas that he passed onto me that are still in the works would be more ND exposure for winners (pix etc.) per race, Championship jackets, ND coverage of points battles, BIGGER BONUS payouts, etc. There are more but it does seem to me that a momentum has returned to Class racing, once the manufactures see that NHRA are rolling so will they with payments that we all love so much. Keep following the money !!!! (that's my new saying cause I reckon that's how shyt gets done)

The down side is that this new format collides with an 'already in place' class schedule, the timing cause it had to happen quickly, it seems to piss a few racers off and it's not complete. I feel that this year is an improvement on an old and antiquated system that really needed fixing for some time now. It will get better but we'll all need to 'suck it up' for this year as the energy grows with the manufacturers and, most importantly, the economy. Please try to stay positive because it has been saved so far and it will need some tweaking. I'll admit that NHRA has a few problems but it seems to me that this one could, potentially, solve a few of 'em. Get ready for the HP hand outs @#$%^&*()

I believe that we and them are on a path for a better Stock and Super Stock Class program, please be patient, Rome wasn't built in a day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Quote: Some of the ideas that he passed onto me that are still in the works would be more ND exposure for winners (pix etc.) per race, Championship jackets, ND coverage of points battles, BIGGER BONUS payouts, etc. There are more but it does seem to me that a momentum has returned to Class racing, once the manufactures see that NHRA are rolling so will they with payments that we all love so much. Keep following the money !!!! (that's my new saying cause I reckon that's how shyt gets done)

Bernie,I hate to sound negative,but after all the "enhancements" we've endured over the past few years now all of a sudden a light bulb went off in the heads of these highly paid
board members,and now we're going to have the red carpet rolled out for us in the form of the above quote.
Well excuse me if I sound a little dubious about what will really happen and the motivation for their concern over our well being.
Remember Abe Lincoln's saying about being fooled.
I agree that the whole system needs an overhaul,but it seems it's on our backs that the hard work and sacrifice is being made.
If the Wallys are a problem then 1 lb breaks will help.Stop giving them away for every new gimmick they can think of.Substitute plaques for anything other than direct racing activities.
Lower the postings (pay a bit less for class wins and contingency for race wins).Half a pie is better than no pie at all.That way smaller sponsors can climb aboard.
The next one is a must.Lower the "administration fees" that Glendora charges.Just
charge enought to cover actual costs.
And stop them from keeping moneys not theirs to keep.Would you like your bank keeping
your money if it didn't like how you managed your account,within the rules set forward?
Lastly,nowhere did i hear any input from the people most affected by this second coming,mainly the racers themselves.
Back to you Bernie.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

1st. Bernie,I hate to sound negative,but after all the "enhancements" we've endured over the past few years now all of a sudden a light bulb went off in the heads of these highly paid
board members,and now we're going to have the red carpet rolled out for us in the form of the above quote.
2nd. Well excuse me if I sound a little dubious about what will really happen and the motivation for their concern over our well being.
Remember Abe Lincoln's saying about being fooled.
3rd. I agree that the whole system needs an overhaul,but it seems it's on our backs that the hard work and sacrifice is being made.
4th. If the Wallys are a problem then 1 lb breaks will help.Stop giving them away for every new gimmick they can think of.Substitute plaques for anything other than direct racing activities.
5th. Lower the postings (pay a bit less for class wins and contingency for race wins).Half a pie is better than no pie at all.That way smaller sponsors can climb aboard.
6th. The next one is a must.Lower the "administration fees" that Glendora charges.Just
charge enought to cover actual costs.
7th. And stop them from keeping moneys not theirs to keep.Would you like your bank keeping
your money if it didn't like how you managed your account,within the rules set forward?
8th. Lastly,nowhere did i hear any input from the people most affected by this second coming,mainly the racers themselves.
Back to you Bernie.[/QUOTE]

Ed, your an OK guy to me even though we have never hung out together, (wished I had) it's ya 'out of the box' and serious thinking that I like, and ya trailer setup is cool LOL

I'll take this one paragragh at a time. I added some numbers and shyt so everyone can follow along, hope ya don't mind?

1st. This has absolutely nothing to do with your description, "highly paid board members" so that is moot. This is not a red carpet deal but a survival tactic.

2nd. The new Class system is in effect, like it or not, nobody in this world cares about YOUR well being. The excitement is being fueled by the payers, GET THIS INTO YA HEAD, the manufactures. Please re-read that !!!!!!!!!!! Neither I, or Class racing, were around when Abe was ! I do like him however and, like you, would have been a fun guy to hang with over a beer or two. I reckon he said something about ignorance and stupidity as well.

3rd. You're right in the first part but I fail to comprehend the second. You're not spending any time like the Committee is to come up with anything ???!!!

4th. The Wally's are not the problem, PERIOD ! However it's easy to see a saving there for NHRA. One pound weight breaks are dangerous, in my opinion. I've had to race that way already with the FI classes and I feel it to be a problem when one needs to move 300 to 400 plus pounds in a fast car on a Wednesday to change classes at a Nat. with no testing. Been there !!! Replica's are cheap and the PAYING public seem to like been yelled at while drunk at the Drag Races, "" c'mon man""!

5th. I like this, a constructive idea to share, thank you.

6th. Sorry, start your own thread or contact somebody at NHRA that'll listen to ya. LOL

7th. I'll take a guess that you mean the money that manufactures pay for posting. As usual this subject is blown out of proportion again, a few years back I posted on here, the exact requirements per the NHRA and what it gave for the privilege of being a Sponsor, every ones memory is wasted. NHRA does NOT keep the Sponsors money, the Sponsors will pay the unpaid balance at the end of the season, that is agreed upon, if they did not meet the quota of payouts, sometimes hard for a small business to do and it's designed to keep the riff raff out, they don't want a carny atmosphere going on. It will however give you a Midway space.

8th. I'm glad to see you on this subject, it's on now. Like I said, the timing sucks.

I want to help just like every one does. Gotta say though it takes me forever to type so give us some constructive thinking here!

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

I would take all of the decision making out of the hands of the 'hra's and as a racer strike my own deal with manufacturers. That is what I do in my business and advocate that my customers do the same. Example: XXX Speed Parts Manufacturer isn't on the contingency list. I call and ask what benifit is it to them to have my car wearing their decal and running their product? I have yet to be told "nothing". Most request that I provide written or photo of win or runner up in eliminator or winner in class. Never have I been told that a single will not get anything for class. I keep very good records and could count on one hand the times that I haven't been paid in this way. Most say that they will pay whatever a similar product manufactuer is paying. Some pay in dollars and some give the choice of credit or parts. However, when playing contingency payout as outlined I have been BS'ed by the 'hra's (person or persons) that supposedly handle timely payouts more times than I could count. Therefore, I think my system works far better for me.

The contingency sponsor is paying for advertising on my car whether it be on track or on the front page of a racing publication. They aren't counting on the small amount of revenue that comes from other racers. They want the same as the car dealers want. Win on Sunday buy on Monday incentive for their money. "So and So uses X Brand and is fast and wins so the product must be good" mentality. I have no need for intermediary 'hra's to do this for me and apparantly alot of my customers implement this plan with a good success rate themselves.

I will not fool around with any company that puts limits on time of purchase unless the item has an expiration date. Over the years I have developed a good relationship with the manufacturers that I use as I know other racers and builders have done the same. They expect results from me and I expect results from them. The way a consumer/provider relationship should be.

On single runs: I have never heard a word of complaint from a manufacturer concerning this. Case in point: It is not my customers fault or mine, that he has the field in his class covered by a tenth or two and competitors change classes up or down or even build a different combo. I agree that there are some odd ball classes out there but thats what makes the world go round. The so called odd ball classes surely aren't anywhere close to as bad as some of the BS factoring we are exposed to.

In summary, I think that we as racers are going to have to do a little (actually alot) for OURSELVES in order to keep this class elimination deal and the eliminators as a whole healthy. Not rely on the opinions and decisions of others that have nothing but the dollar they can make as the sole imput they listen to when decisions are made.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

just my opinion, you have to make it possible for more heads-up racing, by combining like classes with each other. There needs to be an effective way to police that doesn;t slow NHRA tech down by having involved sponsors supply a rep. for their legal or judged not legal parts. Just a thought.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Ken, that's an excellent idea. All of the NMRA/NMCA/ORSCA/etc. classes have title sponsors to help increase the purse. I think that would be a great idea and a benefit to the racers

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Lucas has been MORE than generous when it comes to sponsoring drag racing as well as other forms of motorsports and Sports (stick & ball) in general I personally do not think that we should continually be asking them for more money everytime we need something funded!!! one of these days "You're gonna kill the golden goose" if you keep approaching them !! I cannot think of an individual company right off hand that might be interested in doing something like this but a lot of it is gonna hinge on HOW MUCH MONEY is it gonna cost them ??
Hell ya could have the "Liquid Plumber" series or the "Kleenex" or what ever- there are lots of companies out there that have money to spend for advertising ya just hafta find one that thinks the ROI is worth it.
--Part of the problem is that both HRA'S are continually looking for sponsors to fund the National series and they usually then try to steer that money away from the sportsman to the pro's
---We had a national sandwich chain several years ago that we approached and eventually got money from based on the following numbers---25 cents per day x the number of stores they had for 365 days--that was less than $100 per year--when we explained to them it was less than the cost of ONE tomato that they were probably throwing away or one bun EVERYDAY they then thought OK---I guarantee ya if we had gone in and asked them for $30-50,000 they would of thrown us out the door but when ya put it in perspective to them it was nothing!!! it was a totally insignificant amount of money but when ya added it up over the course of a year it ended up being quite a large chunk of money as far as we were concerned--they got the exposure they needed and everybody was happy--its out there ya just gotta search for it----How much money are we talking about here $1000, 10,000, 100,000???---- FED387

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Correction ---that 25 cents per day x 365 days is less than $100 PER STORE per year--

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Mark---pennies make dimes ,dimes make dollars----you are right many "small" companies wanna get involved but its probably that big Upfront charge($$$$) that has them gagging-- Nobody likes to pay for future services at the present time sorta like the cable companies make ya do--you wanna pay for it After you use it not before---but probably what happened in the past is the HRA's let a company pledge money and when it came time to pay they did not --got the advertising but no expense involved---This whole contingency/sponsor thing as been going on for many years---at least 25-35 years that I know of--perhaps without divulging exact number you might enlighten us all as to what a contingency plan such as yours might cost a company---just round numbers or a range please ---like more than $10,000 or between say 25,000-100,000 or whatever those numbers really are so folks here can get some idea of the numbers we are talking about--I dont think the average guy "really understands" how much money we are talking about---think about it "xyz headers" on just 20 Stockers per event at $50 each=$1000 and then 22 National events is $22,000 now add in Super Stocks maybe Comp and Super Gas and you are talking lotsa money not just per event but for a whole season---maybe an probably most racers have NO IDEA of how much money we are talking about all they see is the $25 or 50 or whatever posted

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

TV EXPOSURE:

Who decides what ESPN2 shows when they air the Lucas Oil sportsman racing (a few weeks after its completion)? Is that up to ESPN or NHRA? 55 minutes are dedicated to Top Alcohol ranks and the remaining 5 minutes sometimes show the sportsman final rounds. Is there a way we can get some more coverage than that? Air the class eliminations! Viewers would be enticed with big wheelstands, wouldn't be confused with handicap starts (Although I would LOVE to see regular elimination rounds on TV) and this would certainly bring potential contingency sponsors in knowing their product and customers are being shown on national television.

I've also noticed that when they come back from commercial you might see a slow motion stock/super stock wheel stand. I think that viewers flipping through channels, even if they do not like drag racing, might stop to watch that. Hell, my cousins don't even know what drag racing is, but after I showed them the Calvert vs McCormack video, my cousin Jamie started coming to the races with me and liked what he saw. He is now my new pit crew member!

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Dick, feel free to do as you wish with Top Stock and Top Super Stock. Good luck to you.

This discussion is about the actual classes of Stock Eliminator and Super Stock, as we contest them at various NHRA events.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

I think this thread has gotten off topic. IMO, this thread should be renamed "How Would You Save CLASS ELIMINATIONS?" Wasn't this thread created because of the announcement of the new program for CLASS ELIMINATIONS?

As far as I know, STOCK ELIMINATOR doesn't need to be saved. You know, the part where they crown the event champion on Sunday? If you guys want to combine classes, go to 1, 1.5 or 2 pound weight breaks or whatever for class eliminations that's cool, but I think Stock Eliminator is fine just the way it is.

If you did combine classes who would it help the most? That's right, the new crate motor cars. Instead of having 6-8 cars in their class they might have 15-20 cars in their class.

And it doesn't matter if you have 5 or 50 classes the sponsors are still only going to be paying the winner and runner-up on Sunday.


-Toby

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

How about a contingincy sponsor spot light in ND with a couple of pictures of the class cars who are using and winning with their products. Maybe showcasing a new or hot product that's specific to class cars. A small write-up could go a long way in pulling in more revenue for the company.

Remember how Stock/Super Stock used to be trick of the week?

If you have a "widget" that's worth a tenth, I need it!

Wade O

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Something I forgot to post last night was the other programs that Charlie said that are in the 'pipe line'.
The manufactures are interested in setting up a program for the 90's guys along with us with the new format, there's nothing in place but the Committee is throwing around ideas.
Similarity, they have one for engine builders. As in, a National award for successful engine builders. Not a bad idea on both accounts because the 90 guys spend a lot with the Manufactures.

Here are a few of the good ideas seen from this thread so far, condensed to point form:

Give small companies a chance to post, they don't want a midway spot and they don't want to have to pay full tilt. The economy beckons this idea. Not only that but why can't they post for Class elims. only?

Title sponsor for all of Class Eliminations, what a great one and how come none of us thought about that for ever.

Go ahead and make all of your own personal deals with anybody ya want, no problem. A structed format would get more press and that brings me to the other suggestion about TV. I hope this thing continues to build momentum, but in reality I've been let down before so we'll have to wait and see.

Consolidating classes has been around a long time already and it's in a stale mate cause it can piss-off a LOT of racers.

Nobody is gonna run for a record anymore, ya need to run 1.25 or more under to do it and that would be combo suicide. Maybe all the current records should be retired with the new indexes and AHFS in effect.

The 'calcutta' concept is an interesting one, Class Elims could pay for themselves !!!!

Here's one that I thought about, a Manufactures Cup, us racers vote on which one served us best, i.e. good parts, great pricing and service and obviously how fast they pay.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Good Ideas Bernie. Maybe we need to open mindedly look at our strengths and weaknesses.
What People Like. I know they like the old cars. I know they like the new cars. I have both. One can't help but notice the age difference on the new car fans. Quite a bit younger. We offer a pretty good car show in addition to going down the track. People like door cars with the wheels in the air. And there is a lot more. What people probably don't understand is leaving at different times and putting the brakes on at the end. If a person was just there for an outing, you can understand how that is a hard-to-understand issue. Look at pinks. Lot of good cars, lot of other cars, but heads up, and don't sandbag and fill the stands. But as a racer to go to a race with 450 participants and only 16 or 32 get to race is a challenge. In our present form we are probably a hard sell. Maybe some heads up stuff to headline our classes or whatever. Index classes such as in Div 2 this year still involve putting on the brakes, but it is heads up. I think NSS has that format also. And I'm sure there are other ideas and comments.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Thank You Bernie and Charlie.

Posting the class round results on NHRA.COM under Results

I noticed last night while trying to research how many solo's were at say Bristol, that.......class wasn't there........then I check Etown for superstock.....same result......this morning.....I checked Indy stock and same result.

I didn't check prior years, just 2010 but it would be nice to be able to document the results for fans, sponsors, etc without having to go to dragrace central.

It should be a free/painfree fix and would certainly help with fan and sponsor knowledge who's main point of contact is NHRA.COM

Thanks

Eric

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Award championship points to the winner and runner-up in class eliminations. Now the top points contenders will have to consider the relative performance of their car as well as their driving abilities. Bring back bonus points for setting a record.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

If you want to raise money, through sponsors, for Class Eliminations (and for all Stock, S/Stock and Super Class eliminations) you simply need more companies to support it. There are a lot of small companies that will support Class Eliminations...Here is the problem:
NHRA charges $5500.00 to be a contingency sponsor at LODRS events.
What that means is $1000.00 (administrative fees) and if you do not pay the racers $4500.00 in contingency checks, you owe NHRA the balance.

If they would only charge the $1000.00 and allow you a selected number of LODRS display areas (say 2 per division or 10 max) the $1000.00 becomes affordable. Paying the racer the contingency $$ is the part that every manufacturer should like, they are paying their customers for winning with their products.

If it wasn't for the "penalty" of up to $4500 if you do not pay out contingency a LOT OF SMALL COMPANIES WOULD join.

They could do something similar for Class Eliminations Sponsors". It would be a smaller program but a $1000 to sign up, allowed to display product within your normal pit-parking area at events with class eliminations and given access to hand out decals in staging and pits to Class eliminator racers would be a great start.
Most small companies do not have semi-trailers for display, they are usually companies that will probably have one of their customers bring some product, set up a table at the end of their trailer and promote their products and then watch over Class Eliminations to make sure decals and products are there.

Why does every program always have to end up paying NHRA if the sponsor doesn;t pay the racers. If you think $5500 is a lot for LODRS you ought to see the minimums to be a National Event COntingency Sponsor.....then you would know why it is hard to get paid. Lot of money and literally no exposure for their money posted.

If NHRA and Charlie in contingencies could work out a program that brought a little money to the NHRA and let the racers deal with the Class Sponsors, they might get NHRA back to where it was a win/win for everyone, not just the NHRA.

Send me a Private Message if you have any ideas or questions you don;t want seen on this forum. Otherwise, get what you think known, this is a great forum and the input is excellent.

Thanks,
Jok

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

I wrote a story for Drag Racing action magazine last year about what its going to take to save class racing, simple, support all the independent racing you can cause when the day the 2 big brothers end SS & Stock as we know it, if nobody supports all these different association groups running SS/Stock combos, it will all be gone.
Hats off to everybody that runs SS/Stock Combo's across the country and please try to support these deals.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

My 2 cents, How about NHRA maybe doing something about helping the exposure for these companies dissing out so much money !! Why not at least try to do a little
something to keep the fans in the stands during Sportsman Racing YA RIGHT !
How about a announcer that truly markets the Sportsman Classes instead of trying to be Funny ALL THE TIME.
It could be done is all you guys need to do is look back at your old Drag Race Photos and look in the stands behind you and scratch your chin and say HMM what changed!!

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

OK, this is good stuff.

Jeff, we have heads up racing and that's exactly what we need to preserve. It takes dollars and sense. They've dropped a bunch of Class races from the schedule over the years because of the lack of interest from the Manufactures, contingency payers and US, the racers as a group.

Eric, you are right on. Can't say anything but expect that to change as we know it mid 2011.

Bob Don, that's the goal of the new system that will 'Morph' into something bigger as time goes by. As suggested earlier, record runs need a good look from Technical as you would need to bust into a healthy HP hit to do as it is.

Jok, what you said is great too. Talked to Charlie again today and he likes a lot of our ideas. This situation requires a new beginning of Class elimination payouts as we know it. Basically, starting from scratch with a whole new, late model version. Small companies should look forward to a new program for them.

Ntiroe Joe, I'd prefer you to be a part of the solution and not the problem. This thread is for saving Class Eliminations cause we need the sponsors backing for that to happen. You may have the subject confused and I understand why.

As a side note, if we can get the support back into Class Elims. then it's only a matter of time before we see it come back to the main Elim. as well, it's a new crawl then walk situation!!! We've gotta start somewhere and it'll take some time however, it's taken years already to get as deprived as it is now.

Lots of discussion about the costs to Sponsors that post Contingency payments, it boils down to the cost of doing business. I dare anybody to take on the program for free, seriously, it costs money to run this kinda stuff. Have ya looked at the administration costs of all the good-will/ salvation army et. all BUSINESSES out there, it's a staggering part of the donations they receive from well mannered contributors. Unless you know the amount that it takes every year then I fail to see how anybody can say it's unjust. Get some numbers and then we can communicate with a smart solution.

Peace out and thanks for the ideas, they are being heard !!!!!!!!!

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

At events where Class Racing is contested:

For the purpose of Class Eliminations, combine classes to lessen the number of overall classes, and to increase the difficulty in winning. This is racing, not singling! I've singled for enough class trophies and don't feel any sense of pride from it. Raise the entry fee to anyone who wants to participate and have 100% of the money go back to the racers, but anyone wishing not to participate can pay regular fee and stay in normal class.


Example:
AA/S and AA/SA, run together.

A/S, B/S, C/S and the automatic versions all run in one class.

D,E, F

G, H, I

J, K, L

M, N, O

P, Q, R,

All FWD, run staggared tree off own index or class closest to weight break.

Of course I understand that this doesn't suit everyone, but we have to be proactive and accept changes for this to survive and potentially grow. There would be eight class champions and each would be well earned. Yes, you may have to swing some weight, but that's racing my friends.

At the same time change the following:

Award points for qualifying: 16 to the number one qualifier, then 15, 14, etc and 1 point for 16th place.

Award round-win points for rounds won during Class Eliminations. If you can earn points for a heads-up run in eliminations, why not get some points for Class. And combining classes would allow everyone an opportunity to earn some valued points.

Award 20 points for setting a national record, up to twice per season.

This is a simple reward for those who show up because they actually like the performance aspect of Stock and Super Stock.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Evan. I think this is much more reasonable than the current change. Not perfect but a lot better.
But the problem is This other plan is a done deal. "Elvis has left the building"
The only thing I can hope for now is something in writing guaranteeing no more overnight major changes. No more back door deals.
Put any proposed major changes out to the SRAC at least 6 months prior to implementation.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Here is what people need to understand about contingency money, from the point of view of the contingency sponsor, and remember, those are the people you are expecting to pay you real money, out of their pocket, for your hobby.

A sponsor is a person who pays you money in exchange for positive marketing exposure. They expect you to win or do well in competitive racing, and show good performance, to give their potential customers a positive view of their product. They absolutely MUST be able to, for lack of a better term, BRAG about your performance.

If you do not beat other cars racing heads up, and go fast, they have nothing to brag about, and no real reason to sponsor you when it comes to class eliminations.

If there aren't any cars for you to race, that is not any fault of theirs. And you cannot reasonably expect a sponsor to pay for anything other than results and positive exposure.

Contingency sponsors are in business. This is not a hobby for them. It is how they make a living. Sponsor money comes from the marketing budget. Marketing must bring in customers.

Very few of us do this as anything other than a hobby. As such, if we're not producing real results for contingency sponsors, we have no reasonable expectation to be paid by them.

Something else needs to be clear here. Drag racing is the ONLY sport that will even begin to tolerate classes where only one car shows up to race. Go ANYWHERE else in the motorsports world, and see how long ANY class will last if no one shows up to race. Fans will refuse to watch one car race. If the fans are not watching, the sponsors are not getting anything for their marketing dollar. Were they in any other form of motorsports, about 90% of these classes that have 10 or less cars nation wide, would have long since been completely eliminated, or merged into something else.

Everyone needs to understand, no one owes you a place to race just because you build a car you like, or you can afford. For the tracks, for the promoters, and for the sponsors, racing is business, and most of the people on their staffs are trying to make a living and feed a family. For most of us, racing is a hobby, no matter what you spend. Those people trying to make a living do not owe us a place to play with our hobby toys out of the goodness of their hearts. We must give them something in exchange for the place to play with our hobby, or we can expect to have no place to play, because we have no reasonable expectation of having others pay for our hobby.

We ALL really have to look at this from the position of what the sponsors get out of what they spend on us. No matter how much you happen to like a particular class or car, if there's not much competition in that class, there's just no way you can reasonably expect a business to pay for that class.

Sure, maybe it only pays $100 for a win for each decal. But look at it like this. If 60-70 cars show up at a race that has class eliminations, odds are that only about 1/2 of those cars are going to have another car in their class, at best. So you have 30-35 or so cars making a single for class. If you have a big market share, say 50-60% or better, that means you're going to pay out $1500 or so for single passes. So you're paying $1500 per event that runs class, for something that does not pay you back in marketing results.

While some people will say "well, it's only $1500", but it isn't their money, and if it happens at 5-7 races, then it becomes $7500 or more. Now some people are going to say, "well, those companies make millions of dollars", but the fact remains, they make that money by spending wisely. Think about what other marketing they can buy for $7500 to $10K a year or more.

Now, to be fair about this, I think NHRA shoulders a ton of blame for this. They do such a poor job of promoting the classes, and such a poor job of showcasing class eliminations, that it severely cuts the value of the dollars that contingency sponsors spend to pay us. Further, while it does take some money for NHRA to manage the contingency program, their cut is entirely out of line for what they do for the money they are paid.

Last year, we had a class win, an event win, and a runner up, at one event, for two cars that I served as engine builder and crew chief on. So I was there to see what NHRA did as far as the contingency program was concerned. I can promise you they didn't spend a lot of money paying the guys that checked those two cars for decals on Sunday. We filled out the sheets, and showed them the decals. Then we had to show the contingency sponsors proof of purchase. It ain't like NHRA had a dozen people doing all the paper work for us.

There is plenty of blame for the current situation to go around. No one has to like it, but we all have to live with the facts and the reality of the situation. Companies are under no obligation what so ever to step up and pay contingency. In this economy, they absolutely must consider where they spend money, and what return they get for it. The simply fact is that several companies have gone bankrupt, some have survived, some have not.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Art, it doesn't matter what you spend on parts, that's not why they pay you contingency money. It's called "contingency SPONSOR program" for a reason. They don't pay you contingency money just because you spent money on their parts. They pay you contingency money to advertise for them. If they don't think a single pass is a good advertising value, that is their decision, you have no right to expect to be able to force them to pay.

Buying parts does not automatically entitle you to get paid, I've bought a ton of parts from people who do not pay contingency at all, simply because it was the best part for the race car. Companies can elect to pay or not, it's a free country, and a free market economy, at least to an extent. They can pay out money any way they see fit, or not at all. See, it is their money, it is not your money, or my money. It belongs to them.

This "entitlement" mentality is amusing. Especially from people who call themselves "conservative" outside of racing.

You know, you can always vote with your wallet, if you don't like the way contingency sponsors want the program where they GIVE you their money structured, you can always buy your parts somewhere else, and tell them why.

I'm fully aware that a lot of the singles for class are stick cars. Some of my best friends run stick cars. We ran one too, for a while, and may run one again. If we have a single for class, and they don't want to pay us, well, it was their money, not ours.

I personally couldn't care less how many singles you or anyone else gets for class, it does not matter to me. It does not cost me a dime.

All I'm doing is telling you what people in the business are faced with. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it, you don't have to believe me.

But you'll have to deal with the reality of the situation, like it or not, sooner or later.

See, I carry the "conservative" mentality over to racing, too. I have no right to tell other people how to spend their money, it is not my money, it is their money.

Do you feel you have a right to tell people how they can spend their money? Because by demanding contingency sponsors pay the way YOU want them to pay is telling other people how to spend their money. Are you sure you have the right to do that?

In any event, you guys just go ahead and do or say whatever you want. I'm not going to contribute to dragging this post off topic anymore. You can deal with your persecution complexes however you want. I had nothing at all to do with this change, no one asked me anything. I seriously doubt any of the racers had anything to do with it, but feel free to feel like everyone is out to get you if that's what you want. We're going racing, so I'm going back out to the shop to work on our old worn out slow junk, and you guys can deal with this situation any way you see fit.

Ken, I apologize for dragging this off topic, I'll contribute no further to hijacking this thread.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Alan,
Some of this makes perfect sense BUT... Why do they require we use the parts then if its just a advertisement ? Take Jiffy Tite for example, they require you spend at least 200$ per car with fittings. A bunch of manufactures only pay for a Ellim win but not class.
And I doubt very much all the PRO payouts with Contingency they even think of using those parts. My point is, Its the marketing strategy being used and the dollar amount they spend on return, 5,500$ is a ton of money for them to dish out so has NHRA lowered the cost of that in this situation to help ?? Doubt it

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Personal attacks Art? Where did I attack anyone personally?

The political position was merely an example. If it offended you, well, I guess you're easily offended. Not much I can do about that.

I understand exactly what contingency is all about. That is exactly the point I made. It's about advertising.

I am not on anyone's "side". I cannot help it if people seem to think other racers are "out to get them". I think I said clearly that it doesn't matter to me if you or anyone else singles for class. Plenty of my good friends run stick cars and may single for class.

I had nothing to do with this decision, and I don't know anyone who did.

All I said was that I can understand how and why a contingency sponsor can come to such a decision from a strictly business stand point.

I don't think anyone can honestly look at anything I've said anywhere on this site or anywhere else and say I'd take the side of NHRA, either.

Art, if you feel everyone who disagrees with you is making a personal attack, and you get your feeling hurt, I can't help you with that. You seem to be perfectly willing to call people who disagree with you out, I think you need to either get a little thicker skin, or find a different way to converse with people you disagree with.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Bob,
They require you to use the part because they're using your performance to sell their parts. The idea is "Bob won this race running our parts, if you buy our parts, you'll be a winner too". Sure, they want to know you're spending money with them, too. But they want proof that you're running their parts just as much to prove their parts are on winners as they do to make sure you spent money with them. It really isn't good for them if they pay you, but you tell all your friends that you're really running something else.

And if you'll note, I think I did a pretty fair job of calling NHRA out for being a big part of what has happened. I doubt I'm high on NHRA's "number one fan list", either.

Again, I'm not on ANYONE'S side. I merely said I can see where the contingency sponsors could feel like they weren't getting their money's worth out of singles. I never even said I agree with it. I just said I can see where they're coming from.

I do not have a single shred of evidence that this was engineered by NHRA to cheat the racers, nor where it was lobbied for by a select group of racers for their own benefit. I have not seen anyone produce any evidence of either being the case.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

Well I was not trying to come off sounding as if I was saying your taking sides Not one Bit !! If anything right now we need to stop making personal attacks and all this negative and turn it into postive energy to come up with a solution or at least make us feel like we can help, The problem is these decisions come as a surprise and sudden and right now with all the other situations going on this did not help matters one bit.

Re: How would you SAVE CLASS RACING ???
 

People have mentioned combining stick & automatics. Since the performance difference pretty much no longer exists, what would be the down side? More heads ups, fewer classes to pay. Who, other than guys wanting to avoid heads ups would object? I know of at least one guy that put a stick in his car to stop heads ups he could not win. The shear number of SS classes has gotten way out of hand Not as much of a downside since winning class no longer has anything to do with qualifying. Evan has several good ideas.