Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

While I'm on the soap box
My car is "Stickered" up pretty good.

IHRA Divisional right now pays me $1,900 with sticker money.

NHRA Divisional right now pays me $2,300 with sticker money.

It may change a hundred or so with the change of a product or two.

Not much difference in my opinion.

One more thing I understand your gripe about round money. I think IHRA pays $80 after 2nd rd win then $40 a round.
If you have 8 cars in SS you get beat in the semis you get 0. What did you expect for only winning 1 rd????????????????????????

Got to go I'm not a "KEYBOARD JOCKEY" I'm going racing today.
Chip Johnson

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

I dont see what all the fuss is about, do Bertozzi and Fletcher care ? They run both along with a growing bunch of others. Are they any easier to beat at an ihra track ? The money is green if you are lucky enough to get some what diff dose it make who it came from. I have read over and over on this site "We race for fun" and to be with our friends and the money is secondary. So which is it ? Money or Fun ?

On another subject, I feel for you guys up north, its been cold as heck here but its suppose to get in the 70 starting today.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

...only when you start looking at 2 races in 2 days vs 1 race in 3 days, the number of days off work, and the number of rounds need to win the race. If a race takes even 1 less round to win, your percentage chance of winning the race rises dramatically.

And oh, BTW, NHRA's payout structure is the same (compare NHRA Div. 2 and IHRA Div. 2) There is no "semi-finalist" money. It's Win, R/U, and then Rnd Lost. With 8 cars, NHRA semis = $0 ($160 in the hole) and IHRA semis = $0 ($135 in the hole). With 16 cars, NHRA semis = $100 (-$60 in the hole) and IHRA = $80 (-$55 in the hole). Super Stock in NHRA: $1,000 Win, $500 R/U, IHRA: $1,100 Win, $500 R/U. Stock in NHRA: $1,000 Win, $500 R/U, IHRA $1,000 Win, $400 R/U.

Seriously, the math isn't that hard. Car counts: THAT's up to the masses.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

How is everyone missing the point? Lets say 16 cars show up in T/S, and 16 in SS. The track pays out $7900 to T/S and $2,300 to SS. Oh, we need more cars. Lets say 32 SS cars show up, Now they pay $2,500 out to SS, 64 cars equals a $3,100 payout. Thats not even half of what they pay T/S no matter how many show up. What do you think, more than 64 cars makes a difference? Try and tell me its the lack of support that causes low payouts again!

Whats so special about a T/S car anyway? You can't tell me that the avg Joe that comes out prefers watching T/S over S/SS. I'm not bashing them. They are cool in thier own right, but Its that kind of second best attitude that lets this kind abuse happen. Maybee some of you should look into cuckoldry with your attitudes toward this.

I'm not mad at IHRA, just can't afford to travel with this kind of possible winnings. I believe alot of people feel the same way, which explains the low car counts. My goal here is not to ruin IHRA's image. I really want them to succeed. I love going to their races. Look it up. I have just as much fun, even with less cars, and I sure wouldn't mind parking way in the back if a bunch of cars show up. With the kind of excitement about a $5000 guarantee, and $10,000 later this year, seems that if IHRA would throw a little equality in thier payout plan, then maybee, just maybee more cars will show. NHRA is just as bad, but not on thier NATIONAL event payout

Whenever you sit down to plan your schedule for the year, Tell me you don't figure in risk vs reward. If you answer no, then your one of the few who can trully afford to go no matter if you blew an engine on every pass.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Yeah, apparently alot of people missed that this is IHRA's national event payout

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Unfortunately (and it pains me to say this) the average spectator DOES get more excited watching T/S (Probably not T/D though...who could get excited about an engine on a stick). Not all spectators at the races the last several years even know what a stocker or S/S is as far as rules go. The demographics are getting younger every year. They just like the fast Pro Stock looking cars running 6 and 7 second at over 200 MPH. Handicap starts that are no different than the S/S and stockers. Wahtch the crowd the next time you are where some quality cars of each catagory are running.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

I'm with you all the way Michael...You gonna make Baton Rouge FRIDAY? And they don't charge for waste oil, trash, beer cans etc, etc. Good event hope you can make it.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

You answered your own question. I know our T/S -Outlaw car we race every now and then when we can AFFORD to, is because it costs a whole helluva lot more money to build and maintain a T/S car then most SS. Guess that is why they pay out more. Isn't that any class anywhere? The faster you run, the more money you get. Makes sense to me.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

NHRA pays a ton of money to TA/D and TA/FC, too. What's that have to do with S/SS? They are different classes. They have different payouts. Promoters have to make decisions about what they think the show is. If they see no return on investment, then obviously they will change things. While the disparity is not as great, SS and QR also get paid more than Stock, SR, and HR. They are different classes. They have different payouts.

Question is, if there was no T/S, T/D, TA/D, or TA/FC to compare to, would we even be having this discussion? S/SS payouts are not too crazy out of whack in and of themselves. (IHRA actually ends up paying back a higher percentage of the gate than NHRA). Yes, some classes have issues and don't enjoy the support they once did, and the sanctioning bodies have been trying to find the answer to that, if there is one, but just because one doesn't understand the history, why's, and wherefore's of a class and its particulars doesn't mean that it has any bearing on another class. Flip it around. Pay everybody like T/S, and see how long promoters can keep the doors open. It's not about paying SS more, it's about, "can they afford to continue paying TS like they are?"

Kinda glad I'm not in Bradenton. They started eliminations yesterday, and after 4PM today, they're STILL only in Rnd 3 of S/G. Ridiculous.

No Baton Rouge for me, and probably no Gainesville, either. Inundated with work. Skipping Bradenton allowed me to knock a big hole in my workload, but I need one more good week like that to get back to where I can afford to take the *time* to go. 1st Quarter is always my busiest time of year.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Well, if you're going to run some NHRA events this year, you better get used to it. By my count, there are about 375 cars at Bradenton.

Do you think IHRA would be able to run a doubleheader in two days with 400 cars?


-Toby

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Probably because there would not be any Alky cars on the grounds to keep the track from rusting....LOL.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

It would be nice if enough cars showed up to put IHRA through the test. But even if it took 3 days, it would still be 2 races in the same time frame as NHRA's one! And, as has been mentioned often, one trip and less entry fees.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

You really think they could give two time runs for each event and get it done in three days with 400 cars?

I'm no division director, but that seems a little bit optimistic to me. As you said, it would be nice if they had enough cars to try it!


-Toby

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

IHRA can handle same amount of cars, 2 time trials on sat and 1 on sun before eliminations each race. So @ the NHRA div this weekend you get there thurs and do not run first round until sunday, and you guys say this is better racing and do not go to IHRA events weeks before. Enjoy! talk about brain washed...wow.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Could they do it with 400? Certainly not. However, 375 - Unleashed (47) - Comp (12) - Top Alky (11) = 305... a far cry from 400.

We average 52 seconds per pair, including downtime. 2 time trials, plus 10 min of cooldown time between each of the last 3 rounds (EVERY class, so we're building in and accounting for an EXTRA 3-1/2 hrs of downtime for cooldown, etc.)
S/ST 44 1hr 48m
S/G 57 2hr 12m
S/C 72 2hr 37m
SS 33 1hr 32m
Stk 43 1hr 48m
TS 23 1hr 12m
TD 32 1hr 25m
--------------------
13 hours

Long day? Yep, but they absolutely could do it. As a matter of fact, they have. Carolina Dragway 2007, 286 cars, Race #1 done in 12hrs (including Jet cars, wheelstanders and other 'show' stuff they booked in), Race #2 (1 time trial) done in 7hrs 45min. (I think 2006 was bigger, but can't find stats) And given *3* days, it not only could be done, but done comfortably.

I announced at the Div. 2 Bracket Finals last year... 400 cars. We ran 5 races in 5 days.

Like Myron said, why doesn't everyone just flood the IHRA events and show them how they "can't" do it. :rolleyes: LOL (Please, nobody mention the 2009 World Finals!) :o

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Dude, Your compleatly wrong on this. A simple search of RacingJunk would easily prove that. T/S cost more, sure. But the FACT is, No matter how many cars show up in both classes, T/S will take home 3 times as much money as ANY other class. Thats 300%. Do you get that? Are you really that much better than us? The separation between SS and SST aint even close to 300%. I bet you can get way more runs out of a similarly built T/S motor than a SS. Don't act like a T/S car comes close to a compairable TAFC in operation cost. If you think that most SS cars have less than 50K in them, then allow me to think of most T/S cars as S/G's with the trottle stop off (cuz thats what would qualify at Palm beach, and is going to qualify at BR). The separation in building and opperating cost aint even close to 300%. Don't even get me started on what type of car can claim more contingencies. Its illegal in S/SS to run half the list.

I'll be at BR and from what I see, you will too. So, you know my name. Come get me and we will take the qualifing sheet from T/S and SS, ride around, drink a beer, and maybee we will both do a little self educating on how much it really cost to qualify up top and on the bottom of both classes.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Top Fuel get more than SS too.DUH

If you want Top Sportsman paayout then go build one.

I don't understand what payou has to do with IHRA being Friendly.

Every Check I ever got was handed to me with a smile.
Chip Johnson

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

This isn't about wanting anyone elses payout. Its about attracting more cars in every class by throwing a little equality into the payout. Your not going to get any NHRA only regulars to come out for this. Your solution is to stear me away from S/SS or any .90 car and say "go build a T/S car". Great logic there buddy.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Gary,

After I got back from the Nitro Jam race in Palm Beach I recieved an e-mail from IHRA asking me what my opinion of the Nitro Jam program was. I responded to Scooter Peaco's E-Mail address that was given on the original e-mail. I gave him my opinion of what I thought and he responded back very quickly with a response and a thank you for the input. I would strongly suggest that you send him an e-mail with your ideas and your concerns. They do seem to be genuinely interested. We do need to support all of the associations that run our classes. With out the support the program will not grow.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

...and how many cars will come to participate in it?

No, I think we're all trying to figure out what is it *exactly* that you want?

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Hey Michael did you not post before about not having the time to race because you were 3 or 4 weeks behind? Go back to work and then enjoy the races, its not worth your time and frustration trying to convince somebody about IHRA. Enjoy yourself life is short.

Later RJ

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

I have to agree with RJ. Regardless of anyone's attempt to convert someone over to IHRA, there are just racers who stick with NHRA. I personally have no problem with racing in either. Racing is racing and thats what I love to do.Not complain about car counts, HP ratings, or treatment of sportsman vs pros at the track. I however do feel there will be a increase in car counts for IHRA events this year. Good Luck to everyone in 2011.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

i have run both sides ,winnings from each santioning body spend the same way.ihra is more laid back

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Michael,

My initial reply to you was in response to your saying it was ridiculous how they were only in the 3rd round of SG at 4PM. One reason for that is they ran behind schedule on Saturday so they postponed the first round of eliminations for the index classes until Sunday morning.

Using your formula, how long should it take to run 375 cars with each class getting four time runs except for Stock and Super Stock which got three? My rough guess says about 21-22 hours. Probably a lot more when you take into consideration how long it takes to run the Alcohol cars sometimes. For instance, on Sunday DRC posted the first round winners of TS at 12:54 PM. The next class was TAD. Their first round of eliminations was posted at 2:24 PM.

From what I can tell on DRC, they completed the race in about 27 hours. That isn't too bad, is it? Also, the more cars you have the more likely it is that you will run behind schedule, right?

I haven't been to too many NHRA races that weren't running behind schedule. Like I said before, if you plan on running NHRA, running behind schedule is par for the course.


-Toby

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

I guess it’s my fault for bringing this subject up under IHRA. You loyalist are so amped up to protect IHRA, that you confuse the issue. I just thought it might be an interesting point to bring up about how unfair the payout structure is at what is suppose to be a National Event. Like I said before, I expect my friends to be fair to me. This S#!t ain't fair no matter how you slice it. I said alot of things in this thread that apparently some people have a hard time comprehending, cuz they keep on making ignorant comments like "go build a T/S car." How is that constructive?

Its the Legendary Hagen Gary! He talks ****, hates IHRA and complains about everything. I think if you looked into me (I use my real name) you would know that’s not the case. God forbid I bring up one thing I feel is unfair to every S/SS and .90 car. Some dude is going to sit on his computer and judge my intentions when he aint got a clue who I am, or how much I have supported IHRA. It’s not about the money, It’s about the morality of two classes taking home 3 times as much as any comparable class.

Do you think I would come on this forum and air this out if I didn't have firsthand knowledge of Scooter hearing this very argument over a year ago? I guess so, cuz its on classracer with all the keyboard racers. He provided the same reasoning I have heard here. He needs more cars. Well, they aint coming with this payout a year and a half later.

Next time I'll name the thread "The evil NHRA policies spill over to poor ole IHRA" I might get some support on pure emotion. I believe that if you offer more money to be won, you will get people to tow from further away, which will lead to more cars. I'm not saying do it for divisional races, But this thread is about the payout for The Mardi Gras National! Fairness People, that’s all I'm asking. I'll park way in the back and let a T/S car have his 40ft of asphalt for a car whose doors come off. But this payout structure is out of control. It caters to two classes leaving the rest of us showing up because its in the neighborhood. IHRA is doing exactly opposite of what I think they should do to attract more cars from NHRA at a time that’s right for the picking. Offer more money! If you build it, they will come. How is everyone so excited about all of the combo races when they don't even have the tech that IHRA has? Its because of the money goof ball.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Do your homework before you say things you dont know about. The southern s/ss combo races do have the same tech as ihra.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

It is because the T/S and T/D cars have become the "Prima Donas" of IHRA and as you will see....in the NHRA also. They are eaiser to tech and they dont require keeping track of HP factors and engine specs. They dont require an engine tear down. They take away track time from the Comp., Stock, and S/S cars at the points races and opens. They get the best parking, the better payouts, get to tow to the staging lanes so they THINK they are pros and they are nothing more than over priced bracket cars. To bad the spectators like them for the speeds and quick ET's. At some point in time stock and S/S WILL be replaced by cars such as these....like it or not. Why these guys build $150,000 + cars to run for 10 cents in "yang" money is a wonder to me. They could build 2 or 3 stockers for that kind of money. I guess they just dont understand working within a set of restrictive rules for performance and they use a friggin' delay box on top of it all. Bracket 1 cars pure and simple. At least the stock and super stock guys run for records, and have heads up runs on occasion. Flame on !

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Come to Capital City Dragway Friday and see how many cars go down the track, over three days. I don't think they ever hurt for car count.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Gary, we have well over, well over, hell way over 50K in our car. Hell you might be able to get the motor for that years ago. Throw in the chassis, body suspension etc....Damn right we expect to make some good money for going 200 mph , maybe, if it hooks and don't shake or throw you towards the wall at over 180mph. And we only do it when we can afford to run it. And usually at select races and outlaw events. Hell I even run it out down that sh*tty track at Hattiesburg almost every chance I can. I know its not your style but hope you can make the Mardi Gras race at the hub this year.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Looks about right.

"Schedule" would imply planning on eventualities, IMO.
Losing an unexpected 6 hours is bad, yes. That's the better part of a day. I guess my ire is more the result of what they set themselves up for, not as much for how they dealt with the hand they dealt themselves.
We've get several issues here:
- Four qualifying runs? It's a race. Three time shots is nice. Four is unnecessary, IMO. Six is ridiculous (Atlanta)
- Additional classes (Unleashed) brought in to bolster the car count. The additional cars have forced the event to go to 3 days when it could be done in 2, which costs an additional day of expenses (track, crew, insurance, etc.)
- Alky cars. Numerous issues here, from unnecessarily burdensome run time to lack of promotion. (ie., if you're going to have them there, PROMOTE them, put fans in the stands, and pay the classes accordingly. If you're not going to do jack with them, don't expect jack from them.

I believe the outlying Divisions could do their events in 2 days (Sat-Sun), with Friday as Parking/Tech/Test n' Tune. The traditionally high car count venues, including Div. 1 & 3 could maintain 3 days.

...an issue that I'm sure they will have to come to terms with and adjust accordingly. So, if money's not the answer for them, it's got to be kind of scary to put your financial butt on the line for other classes.

I don't think you hate IHRA, and I know you've been out there supporting them (and winning) for many many years. We just have different ways of looking at things and can agree to disagree. I feel that the S/SS purses, given all of the associated variables, is a valid one. To me, it doesn't matter what any other class is or isn't getting paid, because I don't run them.

Again, please offer your proposed entry fee and payout, projected car counts and bottom line so that we can present the proposal to the powers that be. (I'm serious. Not being a smart*$$. Let's work through it and try to create a real solution.) I'm sure if you can generate a program that works for both racers and the promoters, they'll happily latch onto it. I have a race purse calculator spreadsheet if it would be of assistance.

So, who's going to the MIR and VMP races for $5K/Win + nat'l event contingency? I'll be at both.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Dont tell me what I think I am, I dont think I am a Pro, Im a Sportsman racer. This is your opinion of the class, you should stick to the subject of equal payouts and stop bashing other classes. If you step back and look, all class cars are overpriced bracket cars. If someone has 150k to spend on a car, God bless him/her, I see Hemi Cudas and Darts that cost as much as TS cars.....who cares?

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

"Quote"
So, who's going to the MIR and VMP races for $5K/Win + nat'l event contingency? I'll be at both.
__________________
Michael Beard - IHRA 3 STK - NHRA 216
Staging Light Graphics
Graphic Design & Full-Color Printing
Me and Jr with a stocker and a superstocker....Only thing is he's running both cars , so i guess i'll be the helping hand,,, {: (

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Bravo Carl

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

LOL....I knew I could count on you for a response. Hook, Line, and sinker !

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Gary,
I guess it's not fair that SS gets more money than HR. HR usually has double to triple the car count. Maybe we don't deserve it though because of our cheap cars.LOL

You never did say what the Purse has to do with the friendliness of IHRA.

Chip Johnson

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

I don't need a payout calculator to point out that those two $5,000 races are on your schedule because the risk vs reward is favorable. If IHRA were to give SS the same payout as T/S (not sayin they should be equal) then it would take 40 cars to pay it off. With that kind of money, I feel confident that 40 will show. Thats way better than a NHRA Div. As it stands, BR will be lucky to get the 15 cars it needs to pay off the current SS payout. Those extra cars usally come with a crew memeber or two, so that is money lost at the gate if you can't get them out to the track. See my point. In all actualality, you only need 30 cars and thier crew to pay the purse. If IHRA would increase the purse like this at all thier events, it wouldn't take long in my opinion to draw alot of NHRA only support.

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

You clearly have a problem with reading comprehension. Is the separation between what SS gets paid and H/R 3 times the amount? I thought not. quit trying to be whitty. Read again. I'm arguing for your purse to be raised too

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Gary,
Your post title says it all you are definately COnfused.

Answer the question.

WHAT DOES PAYOUT HAVE TO DO WITH FRIENDLINESS?

By the way Ihra did increase the payouts and purse structure at national last year.
It was'nt much but it was a step.
Chip Johnson

Not whitty just FACTS

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

Said it twice already, but one more time for the man who calls himself The Legend. I expect my friends to be fair to me. This unequal distrubution of prize money aint very friendly. Do you allways get confused if the title of a book doesn't compleatly match the story?

Re: I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness
 

I got a great idea. Buy a T/S car then you can run for more money.