Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

In fairness, the Mustang is not far off from what you're asking for. My 2011 5.0 weighed 3500 and change as delivered, and it cost me $28k. I can't think of any other similar car in respect to weight and cost though.

I just don't understand why cars like this can't be in the guide. Instead nothing but the paper cars since 2008.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Ford does not WANT your car in the guide. They will not submit the specifications for it.

But we should be seeing $22K-$24K cars in the 3200#-3400# weight range. No power seats, no power locks, no power windows, no "blue tooth", no 17" to 20" wheels, no nonsense. The only thing you want is A/C, power steering, and power brakes, since you can't get a car financed without them.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

I wonder why that is ?
A marketing strategy ?
And if so, was it designed so as to sell more CJs ?

Are they (Ford) afraid that the 2011 -2012 GT will hurt CJ sales ?
There is a huge difference between a CJ buyer and a GT buyer.

Personally, I would also like to see the '11-'12 V-6 Mustang compete in Stock. Now that would be cool.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

We have allready seen that there are enough big egos out there to get the horsepower factors in line but lower triggers and more reviews would make things happen faster.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Al,
I'm with you. I'd love too see the new v-6 cars in the guide. I'd buy one for sure then. I still may eventually buy one. Those things are awesome.

Rick

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Alan your thinking with your mind not a 22 - 24 year old mind. They want to go fast with the 20" wheels, bluetooth and creature comforts. Hell most of them look at my antique muscle cars and cant figure out why i would use 15" wheels or lack fuel injection.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Ford is building a lot of very cool Mustangs. It would be very cool if they actually put them in the book. There would be much less bitching if they did it that way instead of just paper combos as they seem fit.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Maybe they are? As the Sales Data in Automotive News shows the Camaro is out selling the Mustangs again this year (and they don't even have a race package and not sure they can even build one like the CJ's) more interesting will be if Ford can continue building package cars if they shutter the Flat Rock Assembly plant. With Mazda pulling the plug on the Mazda 6 that plant is in real trouble. Ithas to build some where around 220,000 to break even, Mustang is not even close to those numbers (somewhere around 80,000 units) so only time will tell not sure that Ford has a Vehicle in the 120,000 units a year to move there.

Ralph

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Actually, Paul, I was using my "accounting" mind, figuring where to take out weight and expense.

However, I do see your point. The counter point to that is that the people who think that way are never going to race hardcore enough to be in the markets we're talking about.

The object of the exercise that I'm talking about is a light, inexpensive, fast new car, off the showroom floor, much like the Chrysler program that produced the original Road Runner. A real "win on Sunday sell on Monday" car and program that the factories can take full advantage of.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

When Chevy introduces their special cars, then all will be ok. I know yall feel left out in the cold, and all you bowtie guys and gals are depressed, so I spoke to my daughters who are licenesed mental health professionals, they suggested large amounts of drugs or alcohol to ease the feeling of helplessness. Till then chill, other than class (which we will see how that works this year) , or the very occasional heads up, it's a bracket race with specs. Don't do like the Greeks and riot in the streets.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Jeff your mean! Some can't help it if they're on the losing team! LOL

Seriously, I see where Alan is coming from and I agree. If they would build stripper cars to entice the kids then technically that might help class racing more than a few paper cars to a select few individuals. On the other hand, little old ladies can't cry on the evening news about their 16 year old dead after street racing a stripped down hotrod they just bought him if ford doesn't build/sell them to the public.

Paper cars designed for the track serves 2 purposes for the factories.
1) Gives racers new combo's (and the factories $$$)
2) No liabilities on the streets (I'm suing ford for selling me a car that will go 150mph or is stripped down with no airbags etc)

I too would like to see v-6 and GT mustangs in the guide. (along with about a dozen other fords.....now it's "want to build a ford..here's your choice..mustang". That sucks)

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Surely you guys are just being funny. You don't really think it matters to anybody about the brand of a new bogus combo they have to race heads up, do you? Not everybody is so ate up with the name on the valve cover. Some of us have owned and raced cars from all three mfgrs.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

X's 2. I know I have.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

I've been out of the game for quite sometime, But raced Hemi and Max-wedge cars in the late 60's till early 80's and I figured the Mustang was my ticket to take into retirement and race stock again. As it rturns out the only option we have is NMRA and that's just not my cup of tea.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

There is a group of guys trying to get the NMRA to create a new class for the 5.0 4v Coyote.

However, it will be a heads-up class based on the Pure Street rules. It would be open to all 1979 and later Fords with the new 5.0 4v.
The chassis rules are similar to Stock Eliminator.
The 2011-2012 Mustang GTs are already allowed in Real Street.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Sure it matters if it is not a bowtie. Those guys got that thing burned into their forehead, and really can't stand it for another brand to go fast. 1968, dejavue again. Most of yall ain't old enough to have been through it back then. Some things don't change, and the bowtie thing is one.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Yeah, Jeff, I'm too young to remember. LOL. Had two Fords, an Olds and a '48 Plymouth with a Hemi in it before I ever owned a Chevy. Starting in '60. I'm as old as you. Remember?

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

The engine you have pictured there is NOT a paper engine. The dead give away is on the description tag. It clearly states it's a Laguna Package engine which means it's a BOSS 302 longblock.

FWIW The new 5.0L 4V GT engine is a Coyote.
The BOSS 302 4V engine is a Roadrunner.

Also the proposed NMRA class known as Coyote Stock (C/S) would be limited to a FRPP crate engine with the M-6017-A50XX control pack. No F.A.S.T., BS3 or DFI VII, or ANY kind of tuning in general. No blueprinting, no anything. Also the driveline would be restricted to diaphragm style clutches and street type boxes (Tremec). (Which I think is stupid, so many racers are sick of the NMRA's stance against Long clutches, but that's a gripe for another day).

Suspension wise it would be stock type rear suspension, 26x10.5 tire, no coil overs or mini tubs. Tubular front replacement suspensions allowed.

BTW Why doesn't the NHRA allow these types of front suspensions but will let you convert a Cobalt to RWD?? They are a direct bolt in replacement. That makes no damn sense.

Anyway one last thing the only place this engine is legal in heads up is Factory stock nOT Real Street. It would dominate any other class other than H/S or SSO/Pro 10.5 (6-8 second classes)

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

If you got that price from one of the FordParts.com sites it's listed wrong. The BOSS is around $11K and that's my cost as a dealer at 10% over cost.
A Coyote crate engine on the other hand sells for $5899.00

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

The engine pictured there is my engine, I know what it is. What has been put into the guide is neither a GT nor a Boss production engine. Both production engines are 11:1 compression, not 12.5:1. Neither has a 12MM lift exhaust cam, the GT is 11MM, and the Boss 13MM.

And yes the pricing on the Boss longblock has been raised significantly now. I paid $6133 back in February.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Where did you find that part number to order that engine?

I must have missed the part where you said that the engine pictured was in fact a 12.5:1/ 12mm lift engine. Those specs would have would have confused me as well.

I'm not 100% familiar with NHRA rules. I thought the specs posted were what you were allowed to do, in other words if you built one it could have 12.5:1 compression, I have never seen any mention of this "paper" engine anywhere else. I'd be very interested to find more info on it.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Like Kris said, that Boss longblock used to be reasonably priced. Not anymore.:( I got my price quote in April, but was told the longblocks were back ordered until June.

Anyway, I saw on Ford's site where they now sell a 9.5 to c.r. crate 5.0 Coyote with Forged pistons and h-beam rods. Designed for boost in mind.($ 8,099)....it's a real crate engine, not a paper engine. Not NHRA legal tho.
It's $1,100 more than the reg. GT Coyote crate engine.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

I found the part number by looking it up in the Ford parts catalog. The engine pictured is not the 12.5:1 engine that is in the guide, it is a production Boss engine.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

The only "kids" I see at the track are the occasional 35 year old.The only young people I see racing are from Wyotech. Drag racing is generally a dead sport to the Gen-X ers.:(

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Drag racing is far from dead. Young people are just racing other places such as NMRA and NMCA, PSCA, etc. For the price of a Stocker, Super Stocker or Comp car, you can go heads-up racing and use easy-to-find aftermarket parts and be the show! Plus you get magazine coverage, the racing is intense, and the rules reflect what is hot today.

I am as much a purist about NHRA/IHRA Stock as anyone, but the current format has a shelf-life. Young people don't want to spend $40,000-plus to essentially bracket race and the folks building the new factory cars just want to run hard. So, where does that leave the future of Stock/Super Stock?

It needs to either evolve into more heads-up racing to attract sponsors or it will be a small side-show. Bottom line is that racers looking to go faster spend money and that supports what any advertiser wants. Racing is big business and we need the support of the aftermarket and the factories to make this machine go.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Evan you hit it on the head! I myself am a Gen-Xer and I never gave the NHRA any thought for a number of reasons. I have always raced and followed the NMRA and the old Fun Ford Weekend, not because they were all Ford but because they had heads up classes that were exciting. Bracket racing to most people just isn't exciting. The NHRA could have a whole new breed of racer in the stock classes with a little rule tweaking.

BTW great job at MM&FF! What the hell happened to Campy? Was he always a closeted Chevy guy?

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

I guess I don't get past the LODRS........NMRA?
http://www.nmra.org/
Drag racing trains?:D

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

Evan is 100% right. There is a lot of heads-up racing going on. There are also a lot of young people competing. They just aren't that interested in Stock or Super Stock. The truth is that they can go way faster for the same money, run wide open, and get a lot of internet and print coverage.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

One thing not mentioned is, isn't the new GT 5.0 a variable valve timing engine?

Sad they don't have to include factory streeters to present their F/X style cars out now.

I do really love all these new cars, hope GM will be there next year and NHRA/IHRA re-introduce Top Stock. No break out. ego driven fun, lol.

Heads up is where its at with this new generation of motor heads.

Hitting the brakes before the finish line is not exciting to watch for most, and to hold back these new cars from wfo is a sin.

Re: New Ford 5.0 On The Books
 

A perfect class would be a mix of NMCA Mean Street, NMRA Pure Street chassis rules, NHRA Stock engine/driveline and EFI/Carb rules. Heads up, no index. That would give you three classes plus UMTR to run in.