Re: Buybacks????
 

TW,
Thanks. I always said we race for Jackets hats and trophys because the money is spent before we get it.LOL
You are so right about not forgetting where we came from.
Chip

Re: Buybacks????
 

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion and I probably should keep mine to myself sometimes and I can sympathize with with you about buybacks but these are different times now and I guess we have to adapt to them. I wasn't a fan of it but I used the reentry at MIR and it didn't feel so bad after I got myself back in the race. As long as they just use this at these particular events I don't believe it will be such a bad thing and when they get the car counts up maybe they will do away with them.

Re: Buybacks????
 

Do you really think that once the start using them that they'll just stop using them down the road?Like the tolls they say will stop once the bridge/road is paid for.

Re: Buybacks????
 

Ed is right. I bet you see them at some division races that only have 5 SS or 8 QR cars show up. We only have ourselves to blame. If we supported the races it would never come to this.
Chip

Re: Buybacks????
 

In reply to low car count being the reason for buybacks or re-entries. I remember back in the 1980's my wife and I were going to Gainsville, Fla to a points race. After the car was loaded and we were ready to go we finally realized we didn't have enough money for gas and hotel expenses, let alone what we were going to eat. So we didn't make the trip. Did you ever stop to think the reason for low car counts may be the same reason that we exprienced on our planned Gainsville trip back in the day. No one likes drag racing any more than I do but sometimes you just have to use common sense when you look at your bank balance. My wife and I are leaving Friday going to Charlotte for the Goodguys and will be driving our 1977 AMC Gremlin. For three days stay in Charlotte the cost will be about a third or less of what it would be for a three day drag race event. I promise you we will have just as much fun.
Allen

Re: Buybacks????
 

Allen,
I agree we all have to stay home at times. My point is people fuss about NHRA so much but will drive 500 miles to go to a NHRA race vs an IHRA race. Makes no sense to me.

Another note a lot must have liked the BB at VMP and MIR. A lot took advantage of that option.
CHip

Re: Buybacks????
 

You guys are not looking at the big picture on these buy backs. You overlook the fact that not everybody is capable of winning these races. The guys who win alot and benefit from the higher purses are the ones who benefit. The problem is there are more people who don't win then there are that do. So what happens is the guys who don't win end up in reentry more often, so they are paying the extra money. They end up falling out after awhile. this is what happened in bracket racing. You can't have a race with just the people who can win, you need everybody, this is why buybacks are a bad thing imo

Re: Buybacks????
 

The main reason that I don't care for the buybacks is because after I beat someone,they end up beating me later in the race after I already beat them.That has happened to me more than once.

I don't understand what you mean about being capable of winning?

If its your day,ANYBODY can win.The only way that you can't win is if you are NOT there.

Re: Buybacks????
 

I sent an e-mail to Scooter about the buyback or re-entry deal when it was announced. I don't think IHRA understands how offensive this is to most of the old school stock and super stock racers. It's bad enough to not have heads up runs in their tournament of champions race but buybacks are a no no. I truly think they would have come out better without the buyback deal in the form of more than enough race cars to make up the money. I raced a fair amount with IHRA this year, 5 points races and 1 National and can say I enjoyed it thoroughly, however I also think that IHRA doesn't have the tradition of stock and super stock being performance based classes that NHRA does. Because of that I feel they just view us as bracket racers that run in specific classes. One example of that was at Martin at the National event this year. They had a problem with the scales after a bad storm and instead of finding someone to come and fix them they decided to not have heads up runs in stock and super stock. I don' think this affected anyone but the decision was just an example of them not understanding that stock and super stock are a little different from just bracket racers.

Re: Buybacks????
 

I don't know how many remember Larry Ray that raced SS then moved to TS. He put it best when BB came out in Bracket Racing. He said" Best thing that ever happened for the racer. Where can you go and race twice and only tow to the track once"
Chip

Re: Buybacks????
 

Not everybody is as successful as you are Chip, buybacks are a good deal for you because you win your fare share of races,you make that money back and then some. Their are alot more guys who buyback that never win that money back. So now the burden is on them to fund these higher purses that the top guys win the majority of the time. After awhile they get discouraged and quit and little by little the car counts go down just like they've done in bracket racing. So somebody tell me in the long run how this is good for the sport.

Re: Buybacks????
 

Jeff,
Bottom line is you don't have to BB if you don't want to.
Chip

Re: Buybacks????
 

I can't speak for this IHRA race, because I don't have a class legal car. However, I used to really enjoy going to the IHRA bracket team finals, until 2005. That year, there were b*ybacks in the main event of the bracket finals I was in. I haven't been back since, and yes, b*ybacks are definitely the exact reason I stopped going.

When I e-mailed IHRA about it never happening again, the response I got was that yes, if the situation were the same, b*ybacks would again be used. The "situation" was that all the pre-main event gambler's races had been rained out.

The complete and utter distaste for the concept of buying back into a race you've already been beaten in cannot be explained...unless you already get it. I believe it's hurt bracket racing, to it's core, but I doubt any of those folks who have left because of it are likely to suddenly start showing up on any message boards to say that. Personally, I don't care what the payouts are. That didn't get me into the sport and it certainly isn't keeping me in. Take care. Tom Worthington.

Re: Buybacks????
 

I'm talking about myself, and not buying back does not solve the problem.

Re: Buybacks????
 

Tom,
The reason for BB at that bracket finals was It rained from Thursday until Sunday morning. They could'nt reschedule because VMP was doing their famous flip flop.

Pittsburgh was in the same boat a couple years ago and they finished the bracket finals on a practice tree.

Not defending those decisions at all.

Tom you are a prime example of Buybacks do work. In your case you choose not to participate others do and the race moves forward.

What has hurt bracket racing is the Multiple BB, Double entries, Mulligans, and poor payouts. When you go to a race and spend $40 to enter+ $40 for a double entry + $40 to Buyback first and second rd, with each entry and the purse is onlty $1,000 to win- $200 r/u, and $50 semis. You have to go 6 rounds to get $50. That my friend is what is killing racing. Not $200 to enter and $100 to BB for $5,000 plus contingensy to win and a $100 at 16 cars which is normally 3rd or 4th rd.

Re: Buybacks????
 

No, that shows you buybacks don't work. They have been splitting the bracket finals up into two races, next year they are putting it back to one because car counts are down. Some weekends around here you can't even find a bracket race to go to. Other times tracks cancelled because they didn' have enough cars to race..

Re: Buybacks????
 

I have been saying this for years,but someday I wish IHRA would get some sponsorship to put on a Stock / Super Stock race with FREE entry,heads up runs,working scales,NO AHFS,Record Runs,NO buybacks AND $1,000 for EVERY first round loser.$20,000 to win!

I can't wait to hear all of the complaints!

Re: Buybacks????
 

Tracks in this area starting using buybacks because of low car counts, the buybacks didn't cause the low car counts. But now it has become ridiculous one track sometimes has 3 rounds. I have had the occasion to beat one guy twice only for him to knock me out 4 or 5th round. Now that's catching one in the rear.

Re: Buybacks????
 

They started with one rd. of buybacks when car counts were still strong. They added the other rds of buybacks, mulligans etc. after the car counts started going down. We can debate whether buybacks will hurt car counts or not, but I never heard somebody say they were going to a race because they had buybacks.

Re: Buybacks????
 

Really? When I refused to participate in a b*yback at that Bracket Finals it cost my team a shot at more team points. That's "working"? Felt more like I was screwing over my teammates just because I wouldn't do something I couldn't rationalize away. It did keep me from ever coming back, so in that sense I guess it "worked"?

One thing I will say. Once you've allowed them in, you aren't gonna get them back out, and increasing support for such an event would only serve to make them even less likely to go away. You can write that one down. Take care. Tom Worthington.

Re: Buybacks????
 

Buybacks,just another:

Re: Buybacks????
 

U get what u pay 4!!!!

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Little fact I found interesting. Class racers are being the most vocal against the re-entry program but at VMP more Stockers bought back than any other class. HHHMMM
Chip Johnson

Re: Buybacks????
 

Surrender to the next lower standard is the new fad.Think about it in every part of your life.

Re: Buybacks????
 

Ed,
What does that mean, People that BB are Obama supporters? LOL
Chip

Re: Buybacks????
 

I bought back and won....and it still felt good to me..... the only thing I can say I hate about the race was we qualified in stock first rd then they write on the sheet for first rd that they are gonna do a pro ladder first rd not a sportsman ladder...well I was fine for a sportsman ladder on the sheet no heads up runs for me first rd but the pro ladder oh well heads up run first rd and they put the sheet up as they called us for first rd... they should do a random paring first rd like they did the re entry rd and then generate a ladder....the re entry deal was fine by me win or lose first rd...I say thanks IHRA.summit.and racing junk.com for the race we should be more worried what will come next year and thank them for a 5 k race for a 200$ entry