Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

hell they are cheaper than the "stock" stuff on most big blocks anyway

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

well if they get rid of the heads-up rule,we all can save some money.as long as you can run the index,all would be good.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Alan,
Respectfully, I answered a question requiring "who asked for this" and showed I, as I know others have, asked for this...while I raced in Stock. I gave the reasons. Some will agree, some will disagree. Moot point at this point as apparently NHRA has accepted this. Crying over the past or future is somewhat meaningless but you do have a right to voice your opinion.
Secondly, I am still an NHRA member and have a SS competition license which is still current. I have, and continue to spend a hell of a lot of money on getting my car back on the track. The length of time is beyond my control. And there is no rule in the NHRA rulebook that defines lengths of absentia as acceptable, or not. Bottom line, I have a car, I have a license, I am a member.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Eddie,
As an "Old Timer", you can probably relate to having to buy or find a bucket of OEM rocker arms and going through the entire bucket to get the allowable lift. Maybe you haven't. I have. And so do others that look for the most from their combination. If this rule is for real, you can buy ratio correct rockers from $150 to $300 new. Used can be bought all day long for much less. No, I don't buy that this would keep you out. Prices have escalated and payouts have dropped. It aint the old days!

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

"We've had enough rule changes. We've had enough escalation."

Someone should have told NHRA that right before they created AA.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

We have been telling them! They don't listen to us. They listen to the manufacturers that want to sell the latest "trick of the week" and are willing to become sponsors.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Jeff,The rule concerning the improved rocker arms would surely not keep me out,what I meant was if significant changes like the rockers keep on comming,then when and where does it stop.We can rationalize anything,
however as the motors and chassis get more complex it continues
to ,in the majority of cases, create additional expenses.In my book
stock eliminator was a place that you could race on a reasonable budget. Tuning and engine/chassis combination skills were the main
ingredient to winning in stock eliminator. It seems the class has gotten
pretty far away from that philosophy. ed

PS- yes I used to beg my car buddies to go through their rocker arms to find the ones with the best lift, plus con the Chevy parts guys
to take back new ones with poor lift ,it didnt always work!

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Interesting perspective. Not seeing the similarity, nor a parallel.

A "new" class with a half pound weight break (actually, there was a 7.5 pound class, long ago) is somehow the same as a fundamental change in the engine rules?

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

The bottom line is that every one has a different idea of what NHRA should/should not do to make it better. I thought AA was a terrible idea as did a lot of other people. You seem to think allowing roller rockers is a terrible idea. I want an aluminum head and intake. At the end of the day, NHRA has proven time and time again that they are going to do what they want. Does the roller rocker rule effect my car if it actually takes place? In a minute capacity I'm sure. Do a lot of guys run roller rockers right now at Opens and Divisionals to avoid failure? Absolutely.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

THATS JUST PLAIN STOOPID!!!!:confused:

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

A rule change to roller rockers will kill the "stock legal stock rocker" industry. Time to sell off your inventory before it's worthless.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

I can tell its the "off season" for some people because all the hens have their feathers in a ruffle. Whoever started this post should have waited a few more weeks ;)

I used to run crane nitro rockers and moved to rollers when it became legal in IHRA....not because of failure, because I had a set on the shelf. And I didnt see any change in ET or MPH. So a performance advantage is nill if you are going rocker to rocker with no other changes. And if you cant aford the rockers dont change them, if your stuff works and doesnt break leave it alone. Rollers rockers have been legal in IHRA for a few years now and I dont think the rocker company is going to suffer from not making stamped steel rockers. Their is probably less money to be made on a stamped "aftermarket" rocker because of the tooling involved to make the part VS machining an aluminum bodied rocker. They change the rocker arm rule and you guys start talking about that killing Stock Eliminator and then go on to talk about other things like tires and mini tubbing and inboard springs....take it easy. You guys should know by now any opinions stressed on this or any message board will do nothing to change any sanctioning bodys mind about the rules. Just my 2 cents.

And NHRA and IHRA racers are not the only ones using "stock style" rockers.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Even "if" that would happen & it won't because it's part of both Stock & Super Stock I would still like to see the roller rocker rule! When I have broken a rocker arm it's been before the 1-2 shift so don't say it's because of RPMS! Just ask Brett McFarland ....a few years ago he was dialed 10.27 I was dialed 15.01.....he was setting on the 2-step & broke a rocker arm spotting me....I was glad for the win but a rocker arm rule would make things more fair.....just my .02 cents

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Im so lame, i didnt even know they were legal in IHRA...havent looked at a rulebook for awhile... when do 1/2'' Strokers become legal? hehe! I have about 50 sets of factory rockers... i guess i will wait til steel goes back up, scrap 'em and buy a new set of rollers...hehe... I know i cant beat em, so i might as well join em... not right now, though:D

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

It would help me out though! hehe! Im sure i could run the index without rollers or a square cam;)

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Just need to put the red lines back on and we're about to the point of runing with these guys.

http://www.fastraces.org/

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

whole different cam for that deal

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

just trying to rock the boat

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Those guys have super gas engines in stock appearing car with bias tires. Sound like a blast

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Jeff, If this rule is for real, I doubt you will see racers installing cast or extruded aluminum body rocker arms. And at the price you mentioned, that is what they will be buying.

Quality forged aluminum body rockers and high strength stainless body rockers have price tags much higher than that.

Another overlooked item is the fact that you cannot just throw on a new set of rockers and go. Undoubtedly the ratio will be slightly different, which means complete mock up and new pushrods if you land on the wrong side of the lift figure.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

I don't mean to help jump the thread off-track, but I was at one of the F.A.S.T. (Factory Appearing Street Tire) races about a year ago at US-131 Dragway. I saw a couple of the cars running 130+ MPH on basically bald red lines, which is probably a recipe for disaster. The engine's looked stock, but internally were mechanical roller with 500+ cubic inches and sky high compression ratios.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Little info from experience with roller rockers on a FE Ford stocker, back to back with "stock" rockers verse's Harland Sharp roller rockers, on the track.........= 0, nothing...I don't maybe I needed to change the jetting and timing and collector choke size and tire pressure and piston rings and .....to take advantage of the rollers.....I dunno....

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

I wouldn't have a problem at all running Crane "Gold" at all. That was the standard in SS for decades before shaft rockers became the standard.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

When will NHRA release the 2012 rules revision?

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Probably at or after the PRI Show in Orlando in December.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

They usually have the new rule books at SEMA if you are one of the blessed ones!

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Why are so many against this ?
There's no real performance advantage ( ok... 3 HP )
I for one, welcome this with open valve covers.
My engine will damage a stamped steel rocker on the intake side, about every 4 runs.
Last year, I put on a set of rollers, with intention of going to Edmonton ( IHRA )
Engine is absolutely trouble free since then.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

They did not this year.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

I'm personally against because of the added expense to upgrade. I already spent a fair amount of money to get the stock stuff to work, and now they (NHRA) turn around and legalize roller rockers. To update my Olds, I'll have to get guide plates, screw-in studs and new hardened pushrods as well. Plus, it's just one step closer to Super Stock.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Aubrey, if you're damaging a stamped rocker every 3-4 runs, you have a serious problem, and the roller rockers are merely a band aid. How many passes do you have since the roller rockers were installed?

Do you have an old Chevrolet Power Manual? If you do, go back and read the section on valvetrain for the big block Chevy, since your valvetrain is very similar. Pay particular attention to the part about roller rockers and 7/16" rocker studs with high valvespring pressures.

I think we figured up we had about 500 passes on our original rockers when we replaced them. They did not have an insert welded in them, I polished the burr off of the pierced hole over the pushrod cup. We eventually wore the rockers out, the tips, balls and ball seats were just worn out. We ran near 550# open pressure, and turned 7700 or more in the lights every pass.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Simple question: does adding roller rockers make the car any faster?

That is the defining question.

JimR

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

No, it is not the defining question.

You forgot several questions.

Does it change the character and spirit of the class?

Does it open up the potential for cheating?

Does it further escalate the RPM range?

Does it merely change the name of the part which breaks?

Add roller rockers to the class. Then the only real difference between Stock Eliminator for 2012 and Super Stock of 1985 is roller cams and lifters, and the intake.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

I personally like the change.....welcome to Comp Stock Eliminator....9k RPM 396.......AWESOME.......

Chassis1

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Jim your car already runs like a Super Stocker ...

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

x2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Maybe now they will legalize the Olds Edelbrock head for Stock,since they are already allowed on some Fords and Chebbies?


Olds Edelbrock Head:


ROCKER ARMS: Roller rocker arms are required- stock
rocker arms will not fit!

And before anyone thinks that I am for these changes,I am NOT!

Anybody needing Edelbrock heads,roller rockers,metric 200 trans (in cars that never came with one),trick lifters,etc should have been put in Super Stock LONG ago!

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

I agree, Alan....
It' these ridiculous intake lobes on this camshaft !!!!!!!!

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Aubrey, I doubt yours are any wilder than ours. If you're breaking rocker arms, and you upgraded as we discussed a while back, then you have some sort of control problem, I'd bet it is costing you horsepower. If the lobe is so radical you can't control the valvetrain, I'd be surprised if it is making as much horsepower as it could be.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Exactly what I was told...5-6 years ago...when I was running 10.50 - 10.60's in D/S...by those that were 3 tenths slower than me.
It's almost funny. You guys will scream about roller rockers but not one of you are screaming about $850 BBC rockers with 9/16" studs or $500 to $850 Tool steel or Schubeck / Smith lifters. And the $950+ billet steel cam cores on 50mm or 55mm journals are silently ignored.
Maybe, just maybe, those with the exotic stuff, don't want the little guy that can't afford the trick stuff to "catch up" with the allowance of roller rockers or their $89 lifters and $150 camshafts?
Any of you break a rocker in eliminations at a NHRA national event? I have. Lucky it was my bye run into the semi-finals. Had there been somebody in the other lane, I would not have made it to the finals. And lucky I had my bucket of spares with me too. My runner up finish was over $5,000 in winnings. I don't think $279 rockers sound like a lot of money when stamped rockers breaking can keep you out of the next round.
And I'm sorry, but NHRA didn't allow crate motor factory Super Stockers in Stock 30 years ago either.
Allowing standard $279 Crane Gold type rockers in Stock is actually good for the little guy. And so are a set of solid lifters with EDM hole oiling for around $89 over the $850 composite lifters and $950 billet cams.

Re: Roller Rockers in Stock
 

Just making conversation. No disrespect intended