Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

I wasn't really sure WHY the NHRA re-instated the pre-1960 vehicles when Chevy and Cadillac were the only manufacturers that had listings in the classification guide. I've been told on more than one occasion that if a racer wants to race a certain combination not listed in the guide it's his or her responsibility to petition the Committee not the Manufacturer. So maybe if enough of us make a reasonable request to the NHRA this oversight will be corrected.

I couldn't agree more with Aubrey and dakahuna - Old Cars (and Old Folks) RULE!:D

Lew

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

I think the 57 283 combination's are factored pretty fair.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Just for curiosity sake, where are the engine specs on the 55-59 Cadillac? NHRA lists engine specs for 55-59 Chevy, 49-59 Oldsmobile, and 55-59 Pontiac, but not the Cadillac and they say the Cadillacs are allowed to race.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

The 57 150 is a N/SA, O/SA and P/SA. You forgot the powerglide weight. I would use the Rochester carb not the wcfb.. It will compete very well in O/SA at 3395 pounds

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

If I had the time. I would do a 1957 Chevrolet. I think people would be very surprised how good one would run. It is just a 50k deal but the second you rolled into the staging lanes no one would even notice a cobra jet or challenger.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Steve you can’t tell me a 1955 Chevy with 265ci and rated at 205hp can’t run mid to low thirteen’s. You only haft to scale around 3500 pounds.
Captain jacks 1960 283ci Kingswood runs 13.80s at 4400 pounds

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Doug , no disrespect , but with todays parts I think i could pick -up more than4 tenths in 40 years .

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Here are the numbers on the 55 Bel Air . It runs P/SA QSA and R/SA at 180 hp. In Q it has to weigh 3230 and in R it has to weigh 3410 Since the Hurly car all ready run 13.80's in P/SA at 205 hp, 3460 pounds, it should do fine in R/SA. The stock hp of 180 is a good starting point.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Make it 150hp while were at it. So they don't haft to spend any money or time working out this combo, it will now be the king of T/SA and U/SA with a stroke of a pen. At the end of the day you are all just beating a dead horse because less 5 people care about a 1955 in stk.

You can trust me with your life, but not your money or your wife

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Charley the stroke of the pen days are gone. Another thought how many 210 281 ci Fords are there?

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Tony there are six total that I know of. Bogus HP rating or not my car is one of the best built stockers out there. It still takes money to run fast. It would cost $30,000 plus to build a roller 1955 Chevy as good as my CJ, that’s if you could find a good body cheep. Good parts are good parts no matter what car they are on. The odds of someone spending $45,000 plus on a R/SA 1955 Chevy to build it right are slim to none.

You can trust me with your life, but not your money or your wife

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

I agree with on the price of an all out 55 Chevy. Does it have to be that way. The Hurley car is out there. At 180 hp it will run under in R/SA. Probably not much under. The index or less is all it takes. Why spend a lot of money on an eliminator that is mostly a bracket race. This is even more true in the lower classes.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Just another reason why Stock Eliminator is NOT a bracket race.(Like you always say it is!)

If you can't win any heads up races,win class,or set records,you are still expected to at least get your car to run the index legally within given rules.With the indexes 3 tenths lower,it is definitely tougher for some combos,but that is what makes Stock Eliminator a performance class.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

I am still new to stock,you tell me how to make it work at 205hp i am listening.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Like I said before the AHFS is in place to take care of dominate car engine combos so what Charley says is that if you dont spend $30,000 to $50,000 on building a race car you should not be elgible to race in NHRA boy what a bunch of bull, are we scared a lower priced slower car may beat you, where is this mentality coming from that everyone has to spend tons of money or your not worthy to race on the same track with my $50,000.to $150,000 car . Rules are rules and they are the same for anyone how we race is not dictated by our wallets but 442 thinks so that you have to win class set records etc well have at it 442. I for one will concentrate on building a car to win the money not scratch my ego ! All you racers with all the money want your ego scratched go play with the big shots in the Pro classes then you can spend all the money you can....Just my to cents

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

There are at least 2 more 55s almost complete that I am aware of, if they take me to the wood shed, well,,, you win.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Steve, your wasting your time, these guys need to read the AHFS letter earlier in this post Captain Jacks wagon is a 283 not a 265, it has a larger carb, it has more cam lift, it has 9.5 to 1 comp.,and it can use a 3 speed now, thats why we are asking for a lower factored hp the 283 has a 230/215 factor the 265 has a 180/205 factor see a problem here.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

You must not know who you are talking to.I race one of the SLOWEST cars in my class!

Never won class EVER.Never set a record EVER.

Did win a National event,though!

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

I stand corrected on the 273 auto combo.
It was the stick shift given back HP.
The NHRA release didn't mention that fact, as it did with the Chevelle.
Paul Wong DID hold the record a few times with that combo though.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

The problem with the 1955 Chevy 180 hp is the mistake in the class guide. All factoring was done on the super stock 265. The last time that combo went down the track was Nov of 1971 when Paul Dilcher won the Supernationals. Forty one years later the Hurley car made some runs. The question is where did the combo get factored? The answer is it did not. The mistake need to be fixed. The combo will nerver go to 165 as a first step Fix the mistake and move on from there..

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

For what it is worth,I would love to see this combo be built to run index and beat a bunch of Drag Packs and Cobra Jets.I had a pretty good year against those cars myself.

It sounds like it is possible to get it to run the index,just not cheaply.

A lot of things have changed since 1971.Lightweight wheels and radials for one.

Does this car have them?

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

So again I'll ask -

Why did the NHRA reinstate the the pre-1960 cars?

The engine specification charts list engines for vehicles not listed in the Classification Guide! Why was the Classification Guide NOT updated to include combinations listed in the engine spec charts? Why were the pre-1960 cars included in Stock Eliminator if they can't be competitive? We're talking 50-year old technology here, aren't we? Can't use an early crank with a late model/Dart block - no bearing spacers allowed, right?

Can someone explain this?

Lew

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Sleeve the Dart block use a 302 crank. Cost about 3000.00

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Sorry Darrel 442 I apologise I miss read your post, I met you at Indy 1992 we pitted side by side, Doug Holder.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

I remember that.You said to come over and touch your intake manifold.It was ICE cold.Almost got frostbite!

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

To answer your question, yes the car does have some lightweight parts, HoleShot wheels, radials, trick powerglide and so on.

Raced the car in ihra as 195/200 worked good -.60 under good air
p/sa .404-.413 camshaft. 13.75 index

Also tried ihra 180/200 very good air 13.45 et 13.75 index p/sa .334-.334 camshaft.

Tried 180/200 high 90,s temp q/sa 13.93 et 14.10 index.

I should be able to install my spare super stock engine and run about .75 under in ss/pa If that answers your question about the car.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Roughly a year ago, I bought Kyle Marshall's 1957 Chevrolet Sedan Delivery, "Hustlin' Hoosier". BUT, I'm really a 1956 Chevrolet guy, and I found another 1956 Sedan Delivery to go with the one I already had. Three Deliveries, and not enough room for them all, so the 57 Delivery was sold to a fella from Texas. The car was just like it was when put away in 1972 after they dropped Junior Stock; 220 HP 283, single Rochester 4-Jet carb, Stahl fenderwells, cast iron Powerglide with a 2500 RPM stall converter, and 4.88 rear end gears. The guy from Texas put new tires on, and has been racing it; best E.T. of 14.04, and nothing's even been freshened up. NHRA needs these cars back in stock; the spectators can relate to them, and think about how it was "back then". With a little work, lightweight wheels/tires, and more converter, this car will be in the low 13's, easily..............and it won't take 30-40K to get it there (I bought it for less than half of the lower number). These cars will be coming out of retirement, and sure, some "new" cars will be built. The guys at NHRA, for the most part, are'nt racers themselves currently, if they even ever were, and have no idea what the older stuff will really do with newer technology. Start them at the factory ratings, and go from there, up OR down, rather than pull a number out of the tire smoke. A 55 265 4 barrel motor is no more a 56 265 motor than it is a 426 Hemi (56 265's had three different heads used, 55 but one). Oh, and I sold "dakahuna" his 55 265 4 barrel intake; I want to see his car come into being. Butch/56sedandelivery.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

The 55 and 56 265 may have been quite a bit different years ago but the only difference today is the 56 is still allowed the Rochester carb thanks to the allowable 896 and 520 replacement heads.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

1955 has no valve notches in the pistons.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

At this point, there's only one approved piston on the list for the '55.

"C42-CP"

Obviously, there has not been a rush to submit samples from other manufacturers for this application.

c

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

I am in the process of building a 1955 Bel-Air 2 dr hdtp for Stock Eliminator. I raced the car from 1980 to 1992 in SS/PA, then retired it in 1992 after winning Super Stock at both the IHRA Nitrous Nats and the North American Nats at New England Dragway in Epping NH in1992. The car sat outside covered up for 19 years and at the end of 2010 I decided to go racing again in Super Stock. Then I heard NHRA was allowing the 1950's cars back again in Stock, so I'm going for the challenge. The car will run in P & Q/SA at the present 205 hp.The car is back to stock configuration, body work and paint complete. The engine isn't complete yet, but with all the information known right now, on paper the car will not run the index. When the engine is dynoed, that will tell the real story. The factory 180hp peaked out at 4600 rpm's. Hopefully, with all the latest technology in cams, hyd lifters & springs, the rpm's will be much higher. What NHRA has to do, is lower the hp so every 1955 body style will drop down at least one class. This way, the cars should be able to just run the index or a little under. For an example, AT 205 hp, my car has to weigh 3655 lb min weight with driver for Q/SA (13.80 index). If the hp was lowered to 188 hp, my car would be right at the top of R/SA at 3548.4 lb min weight with driver (14.05 index). I hope NHRA will lower the hp down to 180 hp, otherwise, not too many racer's are going to build these cars. I'm a 1955 Chevy nut, I've always raced a 55 chev. From 1968 to 1971, I raced a 1955 Chev Conv in R/S, then from 1972 to 1979, I ran a 1955 4 dr 210 wagon in SS/U, then the Hdtp in SS/PA from 1980 to 1992.
NHRA, DO YOUR THING, I'M COUNTING ON YOU.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

The 57 150 with a 1 4bbl 283 with a T200 trans is a good combination. I would build it if I was starting from scratch and wanted a 55-57 car. I would like to see this. The bottom line on the 265 combo is NHRA has the "stock" HP listed wrong it should be the stock 180hp to start with then go from there as cars are run and prove themselves

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Like I said, only benefits tri-5 chevys.

It would cost $75k to $100k to fully develop my '58 Pontiac Chieftan Tri power to a competitive Stocker, same to the rest of the cars......no parts are available unlike the tri-5's which have all the parts available.

JimR

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Best bet is to run IHRA "Pure Stock".Similar to the old pre 1971 rules. Softer indexes to run off of. Use the old NHRA "Red" class guide to find the correct wt. break. Classes are in full lb breaks from 8 to 16 lbs per. Stick and auto run together but who cares.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Like I said, only benefits tri-5 chevys.

It would cost $75k to $100k to fully develop my '58 Pontiac Chieftan Tri power to a competitive Stocker, same to the rest of the cars......no parts are available unlike the tri-5's which have all the parts available.

i have the tri power for the 58

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

One of the benefits of this new rule (Stockers back to '55) is the variety that could result from racers ressurecting comething OTHER than just Chevys, but that isn't going to happen if they're not in the Class Guide.

I was excited when I first heard about this new "old race car" rule, but my excitement turned to dismay when I found out that, unless things change at NHRA, I won't be seeing any '57 Pontiacs, Suprercharged '57 Ford Y-Blocks, '58 dual-quad Golden Commando Plymouth 350's or 1957 327 Rambler Rebels in the mix.

What a shame...

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Is it completely impossible to get an unusual car accepted ?
3 decades ago, at a youg age, I made a very amateur attempt at a Stocker. It was a 1963 Pontiac Parisienne hardtop, 300HP 327 4 speed. It wasn't in the guide. I contacted NHRA, explained what the car was... and they said, no problem... we'll classify it as an Impala ( which of course is logical ).

I have quite an assortment of factory service manuals. These are very detailed with specifications. Armed with this information, couldn't a person with a car not on the list, quite simply provide NHRA with the info they need ?
Geez.. this almost makes me want to try it !

With my stupid 409, I have found NHRA very receptive and understanding.

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Lew S....you asked a good question..."Why did NHRA reinstate the pre-1960 Stockers?" Has there been that much of a demand to have them back?

Historically, the "New Stock Elim"...the one we have now...was created for the 1972 season to allow ONLY the more recent combos...I believe it had to be a 1965 model year or later...Didn't you have to "drive" the entry to the track...or something like that?

The rules remained that way for a few years..until it was pushed back to allow 1960 and later year models...which allowed the Max Wedge Mopars to run...a few 1960 and '61 Chevies...(also a '64)... to run...and if you dared...maybe a 409? That requirement..."1960 and later models" ....was the norm for many years....

A good question...."Why reinstate"...and more importantly..."Why NOW?"

There's a fair amount of Tri-Five cars in SS...is it getting cost-prohibitive to run there?

One more question....WHY only back to '55? I THINK there is a 1950 or '52 Olds out there waiting to RUN again? And why does it have to be in the current book?

Bill D. had a good point...why JUST the early Chevies....so it seems?

I personally was hoping SOMEBODY would bring out...let's say...a '59 Edsel Ranger....I would pay $$$ to see that rig LUMBERING down the 'quart...against a CJ or DP.....what'ya think guys?

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

My consternation concerning the new regulations was that just opening up the eliminator to 1955 and up vehicles WITHOUT updating the Stock Car Classification Guide made very little sense. As many have pointed out, the only vehicles this change helped were 1955-57 Chevrolet's, because the guide hasn't been modified to include any other pre-1960 vehicles (except for Cadillac).

How many people would build a '57 Chieftain or '57 Fairlane or an Edsel Ranger? We probably won't know until the guide is changed, or at least until Stock Eliminator is opened up to include any street-legal vehicle manufactured after 1955 that was available to the general public through a recognized dealer network. This will not only benefit the older vehicles, but also a large number of later models that have somehow been forgotten.

Just my opinion!

Lew

Re: Where are the pre 1960 stockers?
 

Vic,

I've got a black '58 tri-power Chieftan with 29k original miles, it's exactly as new with only one repaint. Say I decide to race the car in the new classes: where do I get my camshaft, my headers, lifters, rockers, ignition, etc. Since everthing has to be scienced out then built by hand and in very limited numbers, how much do you think it would cost to make it just run the index much less be competitive?

If you have a tri5 chevy all that work is done already. A phone call to Jegs will buy most everything to build the car......call Hooker and ask for a set of headers for a '58 Tbird with the optional 430 Mercury engine.

JimR