Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Congrats to Don for being the first 8-second stocker and congrats to JDM Engineering for supplying the power. Don goes out there every week with his foot to floor and his team spent countless hours getting that car that work.

What a lot of you guys don't know is that Don got the short-end of the NHRA stick 40-something years ago when he campaigned his Chevy and got run all over by the "new" under-factored combinations. Don didn't quit or bitch, and now his name is forever in the record books. Congrats guys.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Yeah right Ed, :rolleyes:
As I recall many of our mutual friends and fellow racers with 327/275 Chevies and 340/275 Mopars, and 351/285 Fords wondered the exact same thing in 1993.

I often wondered how GM could pull 30 HP more out of those with only a hood change? :confused:
I even asked Danny Gracia that same question.
Next time we see each other I will tell you what he said.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

But, Alex, if the LT1 is under rated, how can the 5.9 DP be rated the same, and not be even worse? Have you looked at the specs? No way a knowledgable person could compare the two and think "Yeah, those two are the same HP". I have data from someone I trust telling me those heads go 300 CFM right out of the box. My HeadsUp! LT1 SS heads are about 40 behind.

If your talking about the LT1 versus 5.9 DP HP rating I'm sure interested in hearing that one. :-)

That hood deal? Got me. I have taped the scoops up on my WS6 daily driver, it ran the same times both ways. I have dyno tested several on my old chassis dyno. If I gave you twenty dyno sheets, half ram air & half not, you could not tell me which were which. The low restriction exhaust that comes with the hood does not make as much difference as they vary car-to-car due to production tolerances and how they were broken in.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

You just proved my point exactly Ed.
Thank you.
Just goes to show that GM under rated it at least 30 HP.
Ask Monte Howard, or Mike Walter who were very accomplished stocker racers in their own right how they felt about the LT-1 HP when they hit the scene.
GM had their day in the S/SS sun for a long time when they were supplying NHRA with bags of cash and vehicles.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Q. That 4wide track has a 1% down hill after 1/2 way? True.or False.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Could be,,,, the Top Fuel speed record got bumped 4 times this weekend, right?
Ask Tony and Spenser,,, they're not worried about saving their combinations!
Danny Durham

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Thanks Bruce. I started building my A car well before this all started and have given up on it now. NHRA killed my desire to pursue stock eliminator. My car is more fun at the old time drags now.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

I've seen and been there when one these new cars put 800hp to the tires on a chassis dyno. That's almost twice what my Hemi put down the day before.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

What's really going to be funny is when NHRA cuts the stockers back to racing a 1000' in the interest of safety or maybe even 1/8 mile racing! Just something to think about.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

The NHRA website and even ESPN2 actually put something up about it in the middle of all the nitro/pro guys. That is some media attention for Stock Eliminator that some always complain the class lacks. The cars have brought more attention to the sport and new interest in cars being built to compete. I'm building a 2013 CJ to compete I never considered it before the CJs showed up. Because of the CJs many of my mustang friends are also looking at getting into racing here(and not just CJs to race but other models). Like them or not they are here to stay. So stop complaining on the Internet and get to work on your race car. Nothing worth doing is ever easy. If it was easy everyone would do it and you would still have the 5% that would rise to the top. This isn't only true in racing but in life. 95% of the people are just along for the ride.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Alex, put an out-of-the-vehicle (or GM replacement crate) LT1 on an engine dyno and you will find it won't make anywhere near it's NHRA rating. It takes a real freak for a stick F body to break 250 hp at the tires. Some of the performance is the car. 101" wheel base and a lot of engine set back. They will hook in a car wash. There is a lot of power hidden in those "stock" aluminiun heads. :-) That's one reason the SS LT1 hasn't gotten more power added in this many years. The SS heads aren't all THAT much better. Can you imagine what a set of SS ported 5.9l DP heads would be?

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Wrong!!!! Your Mustang friends will not be allowed to race their new non-CJ Mustangs in stock or S/S. Thats right, the regular Mustang anyone can buy new at any Ford dealership and be driven on the street is NOT legal to race in stock or S/S. Be sure you warn them to look in the classguide before they start making plans to race any new Mustang other than a CJ.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

What the percentage is, I don't know, but the track is visibly downhill. (look at the brown wall between the stands and the track) When it rained last year, the water ran down the track. (pretty smart, actually!)

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

As Larry Hill said, fix the bogus HP ratings and nobody will have a problem. Neat cars, just in the wrong classes.

They are the easy button for slow guys or new guy that doesn't know much to suddenly be fast, right? LOL

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Yeah. Some media attention. The fans were all gone Friday night, and Saturday night, when Stock was actually on the track. Yeah, it got all of about a minute of TV time, and it might get a couple of sentences, or maybe a couple of paragraphs. That no one who is not already following class racing will ever see. For all we've been told about "media attention" and "good for the class" for four years, we haven't seen squat. And we won't.

Nice that you're such a dedicated class racer that it took a store bought combination with a completely bogus factor to "inspire" you to come compete. Take the easy way out, and brag about being "in the 5%".

Work on our cars? Tell me, how long are we supposed to work, and how much are we supposed to spend? Sounds like you're buying it all done. We spent 3 nights in the shop last week before we left for Charlotte, never mind all winter and thousands of dollars on a fresh updated engine. We're building an new engine for the other car, too. Both traditional combinations, real cars that were sold to the general public to drive on the street. I'll be working on transmissions and headers, as well as putting a fresh engine on the dyno, in the next three weeks. And you want to tell us to work on our cars?

You come back and talk to me about how much work and money should be expended when you take something that has a fairly honest factor and run 1.0 under the index and win class.

By the way, good luck to your "Mustang friends" building cars that are not Cobra Jets. That will work out real well. Considering Ford will not allow anything but a Cobra Jet in the class guide.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Here is another way to think about what NHRA has done by letting the AHFS take care of the new cars. What if in the junior stock era, NHRA had protected the horsepower factors of the 52 Oldsmobiles and 55-57 Chevys to the point where they were still dominant? What if the 60's era muscle cars had not been able to be more comptetive? Do you honestly think that Stock and Super Stock would have progressed to where it was 4 or 5 years ago before the new Challengers and Cobra Jets came on the scene? Of course we all know that there would be an even smaller group of people wanting to watch or race in these classes. Sorry, 68-70 Chevys can't be dominant forever just like it can't be the year 1969 forever. The new cars are progressing into new classes but it may not be happening as fast as some would like. Like it or not, the big egos with the big checkbooks can still qualify at the top and it is not going to change because that is the way it has always been. It takes time,hard work, money and smarts to be the fastest and money can buy the hard work, smarts and time part of it.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

The earlier cars is what they are looking at that are in the guide. My car will be a ground up car not a turn key car with all work being performed by myself and close friends with shops. I do not have the huge budget that some others have. I've worked for 2 years to become debt free so I could afford to build and go racing debt free because my income would not support loans and racing. The only thing we aren't doing is building the engine that will be farmed out to an engine builder such as Bischoff. A race car is never done. Technology is always growing and everyone's car is getting faster new and old with new technology and new ways of thinking. The modifications that I like to do(personally I'm a supercharged guy) and there wasn't a mustang that was until the 03 Cobra(which is legal). However at the time I wasn't interested in anything but heads-up racing and it's hard to consider stock eliminator heads up. I was considering building an 03-04 cobra up until last year after i started looking at stock eliminator AFTER the CJ was already out. I wasn't interested in the CJ because it was under factored but because that's the type of car I was interested in building. The car caught me because Ford built a car I would have built on my own free will. It qualified for stock eliminator so I started looking at the class and looking at my budget and location. Things just fell into place that way. Ford just built a car that a customer like me wanted to buy. I wouldn't care if they gave it it's own class. In fact personally I think it would be great to let all the new cars duke it out run what you brung heads up! The old cars could be allowed to no problem. I plan on running everything the car fits in to get as much seat time as I can possible afford. Location is the biggest draw for me.
You've got to bring in new blood or else things become stale and dies off after the last generation moves on. The younger guys aren't interested so much into old technology as the newer stuff. I'm 29 I'm not into big blocks or carburetors. I love old cars but in the era Ive grown up in what interest me is fuel injected, forced induction cars. The old cars get my heart pumping no doubt as I love history of the car hobby but interest to build and tinker with I feel at home with the new stuff in my comfort zone.
If you started a petition to move the new cars into their own class in the nhra I'd sign it. As I think it would be awesome to watch the 3 new guys competing. There is always a underlining theme of the ones at the bottom always call foul and demand constant rule changes(which apart from location moaning and groaning from the pushrod guys started my search to race elsewhere). When the modular Mustangs weren't competitive the pushrod guys said "do work son". Then modular engine guys started figuring out how to make power reliably and the pushrod guys didn't want to hear "do work son" but please slap hundreds of pounds on them based off one cars performance at one race, disallow this, allow me that..... I guess it's the norm just doesn't fit my personality style.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

I have one question for you guys that think these new cars are so dandy. Why don't the manufacturers race what they sell to the public like they did for the previous 50 years? Why do they have to have crate engines or put together motors out of aftermarket parts? And finally why do they need such bogus horsepower ratings? You all let me have a set of dart or brodix heads, a victor manifold, a roller cam, and rate my motor at 285 and I'll show you how to run 2 seconds under.

The 5.7 hemi is a prime example of how bogus the original hp ratings are. It came out at 305 and now is 404.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Based on the heading that made me open this thread by the thread starter, I would like to offer my congratulations to the first 8 second stocker run.
I am glad I was there to see history made, just like I was there in Texas to see the first 4 second and in Gainesville to see the first 300 mph Top Fuel run.
As a stock racer, I am proud to see this historical accomplishment!!!

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Yes, congrats to Fezell, I certainly take my hat off to him, and anyone going all out. However, I am sick of the tired old threads that liken this situation to the 55-57 Chevs being outdated by the '60's muscle cars, and the later injected cars being misfactored, this is a whole 'nother ball game with the factors not even from the same planet....for years I have struggled against the "gifted" 307 Olds, then we had Shaw's Caddy, and now other Caddy's that are underfactored, but they are somewhat in the same zip code...this new blood is parking more cars than adding entrants, and add the yearly sight-of-hand of newer crate motors and the "simple" AHFS will never catch up

Wait until someone plants a bogus crate motor into the GT classes...then a lot of high dollar cars may get parked....$4 tow gas to get blown out for class or heads up....don't think so

Don't blame guys for racing 'em, just quit beating your chests....try a little humble pie for the gift you've been given

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Guy's get use to it the new cars are here to stay . Some of you guys think just because you buy a new factory car that its fast right out of the gate and that's just not true.

I can tell you we are working on our stuff 3 nights a week every week . I just spent 6 weeks on the chassis dyno with my super stocker to get it to run right , went racing and the air was real good and the AHFS that you guys say is so slow it me for 100lbs for my efforts first time out

What most of you guys that sit on here and cry or not race a lot don't know is that the air at Charlotte was 2 tenths faster then the Gators . It was the best air I have seen in 5 years and that's why the cars were fast .

Cry about the new cars all you want but don't say we don't work on are cars or that they are that super fast from the factory because they are not .

Greg , what or who's new car is 2 seconds under the index ?

Alan , we to are also building new engines as well and looking for the best C4 trans we can find

OMG , American band stand is off the air , Soul train is gone , Johnny Carson is off the air and the new factory cars are the talk of the town .

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

So are racers parking there cars simply on the principal that the factors are so outrageous, I refuse to race my car with an organization that won't change them.
or
I have no chance at qualifying number one so I'm staying home
or
is it just economy


I'm very young and have yet to spend any big time money on a race car but I don't see why one would park their car because of the new cars, especially if they're not in my class. They now race in their own classes for the most part and essentially only beat up on each other now, minus a few exceptions. When you put so much money into something you love, I can't imagine parking my car because of another car regardless of how fast they are.

PS: We all know that factors on the new cars are not as close as they should be(some worse than others, some not).

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Ok Randall, I won't beat my chest. I might hurt something in there and I am running out of things to change, sorta like a super stock car. Gotta love that Nomad!! How much did the 3 speed help the wagon? ADRL is going to allow the 3 speeds in the cars, and I was thinking about .1 @ 660? What you think.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Question???

Are all the engines that everyone is talking about offered as an option to order on these cars straight from the factory??

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Some of them were offered in the real cars by the factories, others not. The 352/428 Fords were not in the factory built CJs, same with the 281 3V motor like Charlie Downing's car. I think the 302 that is legal for 2010 was not in any factory produced CJs in 2010, but it is for 2012. I believe all of the Drag Pak motors came in the factory produced cars (except for maybe the 6.4L, not sure), even if it was only for 1 car like Mr. Jeff's 5.9.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Dunno, Jeff; ever since we put it in we've had one problem after another: engine, chassis, drive shaft....kinda like you and me....needs rebuilt after 60 some years.....might know after Dallas....shooting for my first 10 second time slip.....EVERYTHING new and fresh, like you

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

I truely could care less since I have'nt raced much the last 5yrs. This is where I would have a problem. If the big 3 wants to get involved, especially in stock then at the very least NHRA should only accept engine combo's that were produced in these cars. Then I think the ahfs can keep up.

just my 2cents

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Andrew those motors are offered from fords where do you think I got mine from? You can call any ford dealer and get all the parts you want. And just for the record Ford Motor Company did make cars like mine and the 352 and 428. just ask Mr Summers he went right up to Michigan and picked his up turn key. These cars are not regular cars they are FACTORY RACE CARS that fall under NHRA SS/STK rules. Therefore they get to race. End of story. I must remind some of you that it is not 1970 anymore and things (rules) do change.


And Congrats to Daddy war bucks

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Sorry Charley, I was just trying to answer the question as to which motors were options from the factory, I know you can buy the motors from Ford. I was under the impression that the motor like yours and the 352/428 motors were not factory options, but rather special cases, I never saw them listed on the Cobra Jet advertisements like the blown motors, or the 5.0L N/A motor for this year.

See you guys in Indy

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

I know of two that were built.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Yes the 6.4 does come in production cars. The SRT Charger,Challenger, and 300 all come with the 6.4 392 hemi!

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

If you can race one of the Factory Race Cars will anyone try to get the 68 Hemi or the L88 vettes approved for stock? If so what et's would they run.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

Any chance you can post a picture of one in a 300 or street challenger and one in a drag pack?

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

I believe the '68 Hemi and '69 AMX are S/S-only, per the Classification Guide (unless they changed something).

I guess someone could build a '64 or '65 Hemi car for AAA and AA Stock though.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

I surly will. Tomorrow when I get to the dealership I will take a pic of each.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

I'm just wondering what engine compartment looks the same from a showroom car to a race car? Just wondering cuz of course they will look a little different. But honestly the only different in the two mopars are manifold.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

So the street version of the 392 has a .602 lift cam?

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

I like the new Stockers, the only problem I see is that NHRA should put 1.5 HP per C.I. factor and then let the car race to get power deminished.
This way, they don't just step to the top of the qualifing sheets. It's not fair for the guys who have worked for years on their combinations and with just a strike of a pen (NHRA's lack of policing, which we pay for through our membership), all their work on the combo's falls to the bottom of a qualifing sheet.
Another look is into the safety of a car going 153 mph racing a car (P/SA) going just over 100 mph, the closure rate is way too fast for tires that the stockers are limited to. Not saying that there should be a bigger tire for the faster cars, just a need to be looked at it logistically. Is it safe? A power adder car, from what I see at the races, have a tendency to spin the tires going down track and get loose. Orlando Street Car Nats is a perfect example, cars banging the walls all the time.

Congrads to Mr Fezel for the first 8 sec. Stocker!

Casey Miles
248H "F" NHRA Stock

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

If you are interested in winning, race a new mustang / dp or get out of the game. If you go out to the races just for fun, keep bringing your old stuff. You never know, you have a small shot. The message is very simple.

Re: Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights
 

OK, I'm gunna say what everybody is thinking after reading this....... You sir are an *****! Get out of the game? Tell me, are you even IN the game? Jim

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