Re: Fuel check question
 

I have been buying my fuel at the Event I am racing .It seems to be the safest way to pass.They should just stop checking fuel? Really...When NHRA checked fuel after each run we all said ..Why are they wasting our time with fuel check?..I think the officals check everyones fuel the same.Now that its random and some poor racer was tossed ..Lets get rid of fuel check?. NHRA is the game we choose to play...Rules are rules ..I would rather have the spot check..Heads up runs should be tested ,,But that makes too much sense ..

Re: Fuel check question
 

I have run Sunoco standard( purple) for years with no problems.Sometimes a drum will last years ,and still check.From what I have been told by the Sunoco reps, there is no such thing as a sealed drum from the factory. It comes from Sunoco in a tanker,and is put in the drums at the dealer.So if you get a drum that doesn't check,it got contaminated when it was loaded off of the tanker,or put in a tank at the track,or gas station.

Re: Fuel check question
 

I agree 100%.

Scales should be the same way.. Qualifying ,heads-up and finals is all you need.
That sure would save a lot of time.It would free up more time to spot check for other things.

Re: Fuel check question
 

Here in D2, NHRA checks fuel on one of the Q runs and then winners after E1 or E2. It's not excessive and seems to work ok. IHRA doesn't check fuel at all at the ProAm races that I have seen, only National Events, and that works for them also. Jim


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Re: Fuel check question
 

What be sensible?

LOL

What a novel idea


Ron

Re: Fuel check question
 

I have had good luck with fuel check in my experiences . I used to switch back and forth between c11 and c12 and never had a problem. The only time I had a problem was when I tried to run Sunoco purple. At the begining of the race the fuel checked. Third round I was instructed that it barley passed, and to come back with fresh fuel . I told them that this was fresh fuel. I had bought a brand new 30 gallon drum. I had to buy and change my fuel if I would continue on. That's what I did. No problem the rest of the way.
I asked a friend my mine to look into this issue. He was a chemist, and had worked in the racing fuel industry. When he got back to me he said that, the specs that NHRA has for some Sunoco fuels is not correct , and held to to tight a testing tolerance for a fuel that is blended the way it is. This means that fuel can be brand new, and still fail no matter how it is handled.
I'm not sure what the solution to this is. It would be nice to run Sunoco fuel, for cost and anything not to have the corrosive effects of VP. We still need to have fuel check, that is certain ..

Re: Fuel check question
 

I know that when Renegade Racing Fuels was added to the accepted fuels list for NHRA , they decided to submit their entire line for acceptance to give racers another choice of brand and of octanes .
To be certain of race gas quality , buy in sealed containers or from a properly maintained tank and use all of the best practices to store it .

Re: Fuel check question
 

Since having these same issues years ago. A number of us eastern racers have switched to aluminum fuel cells with shut off valves on the vent and feed line and no foam filler. This is also major time and work saver at and between races with fresh fuel always in the car if you need to move it or get to the first qualifier etc. The VP reps say the proper way to store fuel for ANY period of time is in a STEEL/METAL container with an air tight seal. Since doing these things we have not had any problems or bad fuel at fuel check w/C11 or C12. My C11 sits in the trailer in a 30 gallon VP drum all winter with out issues. 15 gallon drums are also available. As for Sunoco, I know a few racers who stopped using it because they felt they were always being hassled for it. Remember NHRA wants uniformity and simplicity along with supporting their SPEC sponsors. Good question Jody, maybe more people will end their fuel issues and have more time for drinking beer! LOL!

Re: Fuel check question
 

Mike
Are you selling Renagade Fuels? This is not a sales call.Cant buy Renagade at the track..Too riskey

Re: Fuel check question
 

This thread turned into a sales call quite a ways back with everyone defending their favorite brand of race gas . And personal experience is always helpful in resolving issues like these .
The best part of this thread has been racers bringing tech issues to light and posting an awful lot of information that could help other racers avoid going home because their fuel wouldn't pass inspection . And it's easy to see that there are a lot of reasons why that could happen and a lot of ways to keep that from happening .

Re: Fuel check question
 

As to not being able to purchase at the track , there are a lot of tracks like Island Dragway that would disagree with you .

Re: Fuel check question
 

Ok help me get the final vote..........does nhra tech show favoritism or partiality towards passing vp fuel ???? Yes or no

Re: Fuel check question
 

Thanks Dave

Re: Fuel check question
 

Pump gas as in unleaded gas pumped from a gas station? Seems unbelievable that anything would pass with unleaded present.

Re: Fuel check question
 

It does seem odd. Fuel passing at Woodburn the week or two before then marginal or failing in a different Division with a different meter.

Re: Fuel check question
 

Not pump gas but C10 unleaded passed

Re: Fuel check question
 

My friend got me Sunoco GT100 fuel by mistake, it's unleaded. When I gave it to the NHRA tech, he asked me why I had unleaded fuel in my car. NHRA can tell that there is unleaded present, it shows a positive on the fuel meter. Needless to say, I had to drain the tank, put in fresh Sunoco purple to get past the fuel check. Boy, was I pissed at my friend. But because Sunoco came out of a pump marked Cam2 gas with no other markings, they ended up giving me $2500. for my troubles. It was like being runner up at the race.

Casey Miles
248H "F" NHRA Stock

Re: Fuel check question
 

One part of the process that you may be taking for granted is the test instrumentation and its calibration certification. When we speak of calibration its not the "zeroing" of the meter that is done periodically but actual verification using a certified standard, typically cyclohexane at a precise temperature using a certified thermocouple in a controlled environment.

Having sat on a FIA fuel and lubrication committee that developed test procedures for international Kart racing gas testing this process is critical for field test meters that get transported about. The dielectric field test meters used by NHRA are typically reliable but do need to be calibrated periodically both for accuracy and part of their test criteria. I'm not saying their meters were wrong just mentioning this as a possible discrepancy especially from one division to another.
The most accurate test method is a gas chromatographer which are very expensive and not so mobile and are seldom seen at race tracks.

FYI: From my personal experience with dielectric testing temperature accuracy is critical in the equation.

Jim

Re: Fuel check question
 

Jim --I think that what you are describing is beyond the scope of most if not all of the NHRA people that are probably technically challenged to do anything other than the rudimenntery type of fuel test-- by this I mean ask the brand of fuel ,insert the testing probe into the container and press the button/s and read the results, then compare the reading to the acceptable range allowed by NHRA for that brand ---it ends up being a GO -NO GO scenario pass/fail whatever--now that I think about it I never really have seen the tester cleanse the tester probe from one sample(racer) to the next-- have you??? This action alone might possibly comppromise the next fuel batch results because of trace samples left from the previous fuel especially if that next sample is o so close to being borderline to begin with