Re: The damage recently done
 

If you want to race a AMC, come on in, the water is fine. Start looking for some 43 year old blocks,cranks and cylinder heads. Then assemble your engine and see how easy it is. Or you can buy a new GM or Ford block, crank and cylinder heads, have anyone assemble it, and install a NHRA approved Holley or Edlebrock replacement carburator. And even some engines you can use Edlebrock cylinder heads. If I had time I would search through the NHRA Classification Guide and point out the favoritism shown to GM and Ford racers. But I will just work harder at trying to make my 43 year old junk stay together and go faster than it did last year.

Re: The damage recently done
 

I'll bet you that there is more Jeep stuff out there then there is B-O-P stuff. Also, you are running SS and I do believe that there are World Products Jeep blocks available and some AMCs are allowed Edelbrock heads.
As it has been said on this thread before,"you chose to build it" so you can't complain but I'll bet that you will jump on that 780 Holley in a heartbeat and not complain. Probably won't complain about the HP reduction that you got a while back either.

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All HP reductions are B.S.

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I dont think a few replacement parts for some combos is a bad idea. A sweeping change for a manufacturer brand is something else. I cant imagine that no AMC parts are available anywhere, and to give anyone who runs one, all those parts in one shot looks fishy.
I always thought the proceedure was going through channels, and working the system. Not a backdoor deal between friends, in the middle of the night.
I've been working on ( and not at all Successful ) with getting replacement heads approved for certian Pontiac combo's. Bruce Bacholder is a good and for the most part a fair man. When a approached him about another manufacturer as a source for a possible replacement head, he told me he has to bring it up durring an NHRA S/SS panel meeting.
Was this change brought about and accepted by him, or another higher up override back door deal? If Bruce is not the guy who can make the desision without a pannel disscussion, who is? Maybe the guy who got the AMC deal done can help me? Sure beats going through the system.

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And a bigger camlift spec is easier for buying camshafts today, rather then the current spec that was the standard for years? I guess cam cores are drying up? Maybe its time to build a 304 AMC Sprit with a 304 and all those new parts? Maybe I can build a Wally Booth pro stock tribute car, along with my Firebird? Maybe I can get Wally to do a set of those special heads? :eek:

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I have a street driven 11 second AMC. I am sure the big holley helps the stock 390 make that power. The only issue i see is oiling. Other than that what is bad about the design of an Amc engine. As far as old parts i will be running a 1962 plymouth shortly which is built with a lot of antiquated 50 year old parts and im sure it will be fine. Trust me we are enhancing ourselves out of stock eliminator with the constant lifting of rules. NHRA is just waiting to do a major consolidation.

Billy
Sorry about getting carried away with the dime rocket but i had a lot of help. Besides it is not that far from dime rocket numbers in terms of investment. On another note i see a lot of talk but not many dime rockets being put together.

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Stock and Superstock have been bastardized beyond belief,now this is a major problem haha theres gonna be so many new AMC's out there they may start producing them again for the millions of class racers and fans lol.

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Bingo!

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What, there's a new block from World Products available? You one-upped me on that one! Let me know when your order comes in.

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'62 Plymouth 383 2 4bbl? Really?

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Interesting that the 383-2/4bbl was an over-the-counter package and was a production OEM offering...

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...t=37998&page=2

As regards to the World Products block, the only AMC aftermarket block is the Aluminum 401 block, which it would not be legal.

As regards to the availability of AMC OEM parts, they are scarce and difficult to find since due to their low demand, the wrecking yards will crush the cars and send them to the foundry for recycling. The want the space for the more common makes of cars.

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I'm still waiting for those Group numbers and dates there Mr. Know It All.

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And what? When you decide to build an AMC you didn't know that? Now they expect "welfare" in the way of new parts? Cam cores don't know what lobe lift is ground on them. AFBs (Edelbrock) and Autolite carbs aren't that hard to find and the newly approved intake is probably rarer than an original.
I'm still waiting for a Super Duty 301 Pontiac block!

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Come to Div. 1.Maybe Eric M. will loan me the gremlin.Katie Sepanic and Jeannie Linke are here too waiting.I don't think you'll like the results.

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Bingo (two)

Re: The damage recently done
 

Tom, kudos for racing something outside of the norm, and Jeff you too with your AMX (and even you too Billy with the 6banger(s) you raced)...that's always been my preferrence when money dictates what I can/can't race. If I had to do it all over again, I'd either have gone after an AMC Rambler (especially the late 60's like yours Tom), or a Rebel. However, I also liked the Hornet's, the Concord's, and the Spirit's. Thanks to Cliffords Research, I could've built up one of them quite nicely (and had a car similar to Ed's Gremlin), or had a V8 midsize car (the Rebel) that I don't know of anyone racing such in Stock or Super Stock...

Who knows, when (if) my checkbook budget expands, I may give AMC a whirl with another car...nothing wrong with having two stockers, it worked for Jim Hughes, and it also works for Michael Beard....that said, I'll always be a Mopar guy in disguise, and there's some combos out there that aren't being raced, that could work and be fun to try racing with? :)

Ed, that's a race that I'd even like to see, and another reason to consider an AMC for me (when the budget would allow), because I like racing something against the norm, always have and always will....

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For the west coasters that dont know Billy Nees ,trust me you dont want him building a car in your class!! He may be old and ugly but he can get it done!! Hey Billy I have amx paint is rough just the way you like them!!

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Don't need no stinkin' paint.

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As I remember it, I think your car ( 67,8,9 Camaro) was in primer back in the mid to late 70's at the Patch. Didn't need paint way back then.............

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Boss and CJ both had 4300d autolites only the very rare 351 HO RECIEVED THE 4150 780 HOLLEY
NASHES NEVER HAD A 4150 HOLLEY FROM THE FACTORY I THINK SOME OLD 327 REBEL MAY HAVE HAD A 4160 HOLLEY ONCE IN TH 50'S OR SOMETHING WAAAAAAAY BEFORE MY TIME. BILLY, JEFF TEUTON OR GREG AND LARRY HILL SHOULD KNOW THOUGH

Re: The damage recently done
 

Alex, what Holley are you trying to get approved for the 289 over the last ten years? Other than the 306 HP Shelby, I've never seen a Holley equipped 289.

Since your up on Fords, what factory (non Boss) 351C came with an aluminum intake manifold? Besides the Pantera.
If only the 351C HO came with a Holley, why are they on the other 351C's, Boss included?
Why is is that 390 Ford 4bbl's like Mustang came with a 600 Holley and now run the 735 Holly from the CJ?
I'm not even going to the Shelby issues.

And yes, the old Rambler 327 had a Holley 4bbl. Don't know the size. Engine discontinued in 1965.

Re: The damage recently done
 

billy i have a group 19 "1969" amx sitting at my shop right now it has everything but the three barrel carb.

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Back in my wrench twisting days, I used to work on an early to mid sixties Rambler here in town. It had a Rambler engine (Typhoon?) which I'm pretty sure was a 327 and was equipped with a noticeably low performance Holley. I can't remember the body but I don't think they were using Ambassador yet. It was a full size four door, pretty luxurious at the time, air, nice interior, etc. I think the Rebel came later also.

On the larger issue, it seems that many people have lost track of the fact that drag racing used to be about engineering. Better parts ran better, and better racers ran even better than that. I feel for all the AMC racers as I owned a really nice 68 AMX 343 Go Package car in 1969. I had to retire from racing for a year or so until I bought a 70 Duster 340 and I could show my face again. Sorry, but it was just better engineering.

Headers really helped the AMX but only to the point where I might not be embarrased by a 327/300 Impala. The Super Stock AMX was a very good car, as were the Hurst Ramblers and the Hornet 360s. So, as much as I like those cars (one of the last things on my list is to build a Pro Street Pacer) I still can't agree with all the superceded parts. That goes for ALL those pulling these stunts, whether they race Mopar, Fords, Chevies, or AMC.

No one at Glendora still remembers what we're supposed to be doing.

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I agree Joe, which is why I gave him kudos for the great (against the norm) cars he's raced over the years. Actually, I wish he was here in my neck of the woods, because his knowledge of engines for the slower rollers could be helpful in getting my car to run quick enough against the index, to make a run at Indy (with todays warped minded qualifying and class win structure), seem like a worthy investment. Used to be that you could win your class, by just beating your class opponent (or the index by the same .5 that would give you a national record), and you'd be in the final field at Indy. Now you need to win a runoff against other single class racers, and you best be able to qualify in the top 128, or you wasted your time/money/effort to even show up there.

At least I know that if I had Billy's knowledge to help with my cars prep, I wouldn't lose because my car wasn't quick enough, I'd probably have to detune it so the ahfs wouldn't punish my hp factor to make me uncompetitive again...I'd rather deal with that though...lol.

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na

Re: The damage recently done
 

Lighten up. It was a joke since I admitted I was beaten by a girl in the post.

Re: The damage recently done
 

Here's another one for you Billy...

Check out the most recent spec sheet on the 68 and 69 Ford 428 Cobra Jet engines in the Mustangs, Cougars, Fairlanes and Comets.

Well somehow with a wave of their magical wand, someone in the tech dept recently allowed the P.I. aluminum intake on the 428's for Stock class. Anyone who has ever raced Stock knows that those 428's only came with a cast iron intake. And I'm not talking about the Shelby Mustang, I'm talking about the regular 428 Cobra Jet.

The date on the revision is 8/21/12. It was done by someone with the initials of PC. Anyone know who that is?

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Or you can upgrade yourself to my AMC. If you can't beat it......might as well buy it. LOL

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I have been told by some Ford people, that some of the original 50 68 1/2 CJ mustangs had the aluminum intake on them. NHRA for some reason took these away very early. Thats the word on the street

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Hey Tood,what street?

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I assume this isn't happening.


-Toby

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Billy...I don't owe you or the horse you rode in on...squat! I don't know how to make it any clearer.

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What I want to know is, with all of these extra performance parts approved for various combos, not just the AMCs, does it really feel like an accomplishment when you outrun the next guy who runs the parts his car came with? Running a second under with the autolite carb and cast iron intake, I'm sure, feels like a huge accomplishment. Won't the aftermarket parts dilute that? What is the point in going 1.40 under when you could go 1.00 under or more with the stock stuff? Obviously, the horsepower factors are never going to be perfect, but if Mr. Lee ran 10.50s 7 years ago, it definitely was not a bad combination before the 780 Holley, aluminum intake, and big cam. I would much rather run fast with a legit combination than a soft one, but I guess that's why I have no desire to run a new car.

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Andrew I don't see to many stockers with stock parts
Acid ported heads and intake
Aftermarket pistons, rods, valves, cams, roller rockers
Metric Trans that was never offered in the 1960's and early 70's
Your beloved 1960's and 1970's stockers are far from stock as new cars. Old combos are as much of the problem as new combs.

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Anybody that submits specs to NHRA for parts that were questionably never installed by the manufacturer should at least publish the said specs for his peers to read.
You don't owe me squat but you sir, in my humble opinion, are a liar and a cheater! And I don't know how to make it any clearer.

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It shouldn't be a bad combination! Before he got all of these new parts approved he worked the HP committee for a 25 HP reduction. All of these affected combos have already been given HP reductions prior to the new parts.

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Thats not true I was at Ford (E&F Engine and Foundry) from 1966 to 1980 at the time this is not true only the 68 early 10 car build by Stroupe had the aluminum intake along with the lite weight valves!

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I have always been told that the original 50 Cobra Jets had the PI intake and I'm sure that paperwork exists. I believe that the 68 CJs should get the intake but not the 69s.
PC is Pat Cvengros. Send your letters and hate mail to him.

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ClassRacer.com has become a powerful sounding board and in my very humble opinion, a Stock Eliminator Rules Committee should be formed within it's members to present to NHRA with a plan to repair Stock Eliminator.
Members with strong voices and knowledge like, Billy Nees, Dwight Southerland, Mark Yacavone and Jeff Teuton are my candidates.
We have a strong coalition, let's use it.

Re: The damage recently done
 

The cars built with the PI aluminum intake were run in S/S only. Stock had to use the cast iron intake. It has been that way up until 8/21/12 when the bogus change got put in the spec sheet.