Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Well I hope we don't have to redistribute our wealth of VHT....lol

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Nicely said Myron. Jim

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Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

My brother who is a regular bracket racer at Gainesville has had the same problems on a weekly basis, he was at the open last weekend and said it was a joke on how bad the track was. He has a back halved big tire small motor car that runs 11.30s he has a pretty good gear in it.... 1.48 60 ft ... He varied .07 in 60 ft in 10 runs all weekend, simply unacceptable!!! We built this car for this purpose... To be extremely consistant even on a " ok" track. He does go to other NHRA tracks and thats exactly what the car does.... Deadly consistant .... If his car varies by .02 all weekend its strange!!! Pretty much sums it up that something is very different at this place from all the others.... Just need to find out what it is!!!!

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

my 2 cents there are 2 ways to do something THE RIGHT WAY OR THE OTHER WAY does the track promoter want to have surgery by a ambulance driver OR a doctor I dont bring junk to the track. give us what we need to race safely just my 2 cents for all promoters

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Stockers went 8.86 at 154 and Super Stockers went 8.20s at over 160, right down the middle. On 275 drag radials.

My car needs a pretty good starting line and I went 9.68 at 138, right down the middle, with 60s varying from 1.388 to 1.398 over 13 runs. On 10 inch tires

If the track has to be much better than that for you to have a chance at a clean run, you might have some work to do.

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

I wasn't there and could be wrong,but 9.68 with a 1.38 sixty foot seems a little slow compared to what some of the Stockers and Super Stockers run in 60ft.

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Off at LEAST a tenth in 60'. That's about what mine goes when it blows the tires off.

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Damn! I'm only off .06 in the 60' from your car! Either mine's a rocket or yours is a sled until you hit the NOS! Jim


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Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Those "heads up" cars and "10.5 shoot out " cars use very soft-hit converters. I learned that while working with some of those guys. Put one of out ATI SS converters in, and they wouldn't touch the ground.
Most of them seem to think they have such wonderful working cars because they have a big block on nitrous carrying the tires on marginal tracks with smaller tires.
I have talked to enough of them (some of the locals used to use my chassis dyno) about car set ups, they have nothing special at all. I talked to ATI, and another converter mfgr about it. Both told me "We don't sell those kind of cars converters like you guys run, they would never hook them. Yours hit much harder."
Ditto bracket cars. They need to be consistent on marginal tracks. They don't need to be really fast.

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Apples and Oranges------- If they don't run one they don't get it.---------400 lb. nose heavy 455 C.I. 4.250 stroke , quadrajet carb. 1200 starting line rpm foot brake stocker on 9" tires with 4.10 rear 10.61 --- 1.386 in 60' Gainsville same day ------ 3 passes ---Score --Car 1 --- Starting line 2 --- Starting line wins----- went home.

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

I only made one run on Friday. But my short times picked up .03 from Thursdays best.
Maybe some of those on here are talking about 2 different days.
It was a little slippery for me on Thursday. But I don't usually have any traction problems

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

So Ed, you're saying heads-up cars with well over 2,000 horsepower are using magic converters that somehow hit the track softer than Stockers and Super Stockers factored at far less than half of that? Sounds like you guys are the ones who need the new converters. Or Dan, that it's required by the rules that you run a tall gear?

Bottom line, if you want to win you have to adapt your technology to the playing field. Or you can waste money on parts and diesel fuel, perform poorly, not have fun, and then whine about how it's someone else's fault. It's up to you. Personally, I make my engineering and spending decisions to put myself in position to turn on win lights. I don't race 60 feet, or even bench-race 60 feet. If what I do isn't working I make a change within the limits of my budget.

One thing I find about heads-up racers, as much as I disagree with them on many issues, is that they are very results-oriented, and I respect that. Maybe we handicap racers should learn what we can.

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

John, I think what most people have a problem with is this race was supposed to be a chance to set records. So there were some that traveled great distances with that in mind. If the intent is to set a record, they expect a track that will give them a shot at doing that. They could back the car down and get down the track, but possibly not set the record that they came to do. I was there to set a record in a stick car and could not get it to leave the starting line at all until I lowered the launch rpm over 600 rpm's from what was the lowest I had in it at any point of the year. Yes, I ended up setting a record, but not anywhere near where it should have been. If the only reason they came was for the eliminator portion of this race, yes, they could have backed their combo down and gotten down the track.
Chuck

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

I'm telling you what I was told. Ask them yourself. Yes, how hard a converter hits and how much torque it multiplies makes a huge difference. I have worked with emough of them to tell you there is nothing special about those chassis. Soft converters and high gears make a big difference. If I decide I want to slow down, I'll follow your advice. LOL

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

John,

With all due respect, consider the following:

* Converter technology is as diverse as many other race parts, depending on their application. Big block/small block, high rpm/low rpm, etc. have different converter configurations in order to meet optimum performance goals. Even stick cars have many variables in adjustments, power application and materials used.

* Stockers are among the most rule restricted classes in drag racing. There are limits to the "technology" that can be utilized as well as mechanical limits, like tires, cams, weight, etc. Many stockers need the maximum "hit" off the line to get all the weight moving. Often that is where most of the ET gains are because of limits in carburation and/or heads.

* As I've said before on these forums, when one makes sizable investments in membership, entry fees, travel expenses and a vehicle built within the rules outlined by the sanctioning body, it is the OBLIGATION of the sanctioning body and their tracks to provide a LEVEL playing field for the participants. Realistically it is impossible to provide a "perfect" environment because of some extreme weather conditions, seepage, occasional missed fluids on the track, etc. Some cars may also not be "optimized" by their owners as well. But when problems occur on an above average basis and to extremes, somebody is being negligent, and it's not the racers!

* Class racers can change and adapt to certain variables at the track and I'm sure you can too. But going from track to track and not knowing what to expect - blowing the tires off or standing it on the rear bumper - is not something racers should have to deal with on a regular basis. Sometimes it's just not possible to "adjust" for such extremes and then it's a wasted weekend.

* Most important of all, it's a SAFETY ISSUE!

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Well said!!

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

I hear all of you. I just think we are living in a new era, not only economically but with race car technology. Think back; in the 60's, the cars were "better than the best track". I grew up watching 8mm film of cars smoking tires all the way down the 1320 because they were making more power than the tires and track prep allowed. Then for a while, the tracks and tires were "better than the best cars", and it became normal to expect to stick all the time anywhere, no matter your setup. Now HP and torque-multiplication is increasing so fast I think we're moving back to trying to adapt to the conditions, and tracks do not have more to spend at the local level on prep. I think the heads-up crowd is far ahead of us on that.

Nobody has to tell me about the emphasis on safety issues. I dare say on that issue, I've "given up" more to this sport than anyone posting on here who ain't a ghost. We all need to suit up right, build our stuff right and have the judgment to abort a bad run.

And it will not fix the problem to spread negativity about any track or organization without offering a solution.

I don't want or need to test the limits of every racetrack like a record-setter in a performance class, but I haven't noticed any real difference or decline in track prep showing up in my results lately.

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Mr. Rollins, do you currently race Stock, Super Stock or Comp Eliminator? If yes, please state Class, Car and ET vs Index, if not maybe you need to further educate yourself on exactly how "on the edge" a large portion of the cars in these classes are in order to perform at a high level and set records. No disrespect; however until one gets truly involved in Class Racing, it is hard to comprehend. We are looking for thousanths at times not tenths!

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

John,
Come on in...the water is plenty deep...even a cave man can do it.

Come show us how it is done. C/SA is really fun. Look forward to seeing you.

Bill

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

congrats on your record!

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Thank you. We found some things that should have made it a lot faster, but at least we set one.
Chuck.

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

There are plenty of solutions, as long as the bean counters aren't worried about stuffing every dime in their pockets. Last I checked, that track is owned by a bunch with little interest in the sport, only making money. And they do it with no thought of what it could be with a little more effort. Other than the Gators, my last trip down that track was in 09, a King of the Hill Wally race. I got down to 3 cars in S/P, and left with $50. I was unaware they combined the purses, something you find at none of the other tracks in Florida except on rare combo nights. And they want to know why cars go farther to SGMP...

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Bingo, and we all know who owns the track. If you look at SGMP's bracket points list and their listed place of residence you'll see there are a ton of racers that drive right by the track on the way to SGMP. When I got my licensing runs with Frank Hawley it was obvious his crew had prepped the starting line better than the "owners" do for their programs. That should give everyone an idea. Shame too, Gainesville use to be one of the premium tracks in the entire country.

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Gainsville used to be on my bucket list. Guess I can scratch that one off.

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Ed, I don't know if I'd take it off of your list if your coming for a national event. I will say that at the national there, it was the best track I had been down all year. Last year it was very good as well. Just wasn't good at the open race they just had.
Chuck

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Mr. Rollins, do you currently race Stock, Super Stock or Comp Eliminator?

Exactly my point. Never have, and probably never will. I prefer learning and perfecting a different skill set (and racing more often on the same limited budget). But if all you guys talk to is an echo chamber of dissatisfied peers, you probably won't learn much or have more fun anytime soon. I also know that the winners in your classes are managing to get down the racetrack instead of whining about it. No offense, just tough love.

Mark, If the bean counters aren't at least moderately happy, there is no place to race. So it's not a solution to say "the track should be a charity that is willing to lose unlimited amounts of money to make me happy". We're losing tracks left and right because it is not profitable in this economy to pay the note on the facility, much less double the spend on track prep. NHRA could certainly be a more efficient corporation, but that's another discussion. Once again, negativity is how you rationalize staying in the garage maybe, but it doesn't give us more or better places to race.

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

I can tell you one thing, a bad starting line will kill a drag strip faster than anything. In Louisville we have Ohio Valley which has been there for more than 40 years. Three or four years ago they tried VP traction compound and it killed their car count. They switched back to VHT in 2010 and their car counts came back. No one likes to race on a bad track.

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Something I have experienced that surprised me. Our local track, Tulsa Raceway, Mike Edwards rents the track to test his Pro Stock car all the time. He talks about how good it is. Myself and the other local SS cars can hardly ever hook here when we rent it. I tried to run a bracket race for practice before going to the Topeka race. Mike tested there the week before. I tried both lanes and just blew the tires off instead of changing the car all around I said "heck with it". Went home and got ready for Topeka (Nationals). We have rented the track, told them it was too slick, they say "That's just how we prep it for Mike."
I got to Topeka and about flipped it over backwards.
I was thinking ( How is data from Tulsa of ant value to Mike is all he runs is National events with starting lines like this?" so went went to ask him. I said "The starting line here is really good isn't it?" Mike says "It is." I asked "How is test data from Tulsa any value here?" Mike said he couldn't tell any difference. He never wants the starting line at Tulsa sprayed. Now, when Indy went away he had the same problem SS cars had.

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Pro stock cars like a track totally different than all the other classes want. A fast track for them is usually junk for us.
Chuck

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

But, Chuck, he couldn't tell any difference when it was good for us at Topeka. Unless they are changing the track prep for us and them during the day. Doubt it. :-)

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

PS almost always follows the fuel classes, so they set up for that. They have the run data, to haul *** at that track"setting". As said above, when they test, its usually junk for us. All the fuel guys would strip the centers out of their tires, if they tried to run when ours is good.

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Pro stock uses the clutch to get down the track. A sticky track slowes them down due to the drag on the tires. Loose is fast for them.
Chuck

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

Like I said, Mike told me he could not tell Topeka (which was great for us) from Tulsa which was slick for us. Had to change nothing.

Re: Records, Etc @ Gainesville
 

I don't expect the tracks to lose money, but if they don't provide what the racers as a whole feel is reasonable they will go to a track that does. SGMP doesn't seem to have a problem paying a normal purse and prepping the track properly. Speed Worlds track prep isn't the best, but the purse is comparable and the entry fee has been the lowest of any of the Florida tracks. And as far as Gainesville, the track is owned and run by NHRA, I doubt there is a note on that one. They could do better with it if they tried...

And the bottom line with any business is to satisfy your customers, otherwise you won't make any money or lose your business. It means they may have to tighten the belt in some cases to keep working, maybe cut back on those 500K salaries a bit... In this case, we are the customers. I'll go where I'm treated fairly. even if it means passing Gainesville on the way...

And last, we already have several tracks that have switched to IHRA in this state. IHRA must be doing something right.