Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

I had asked about the strut rod conversion for stockers several years ago. I saw that there were some nice kits for Mustangs out there and it looked like a good idea. I was told that it was ok for SuperStock, but not stock. I could see that at the time so I dropped the idea.

I really don't see any reason that a SSer would be denied this at all. I bet this decision was more political than logical.

Since they allowed the bump steer kits in stock, I would say that this is something that could be revisited to allow in Stock and SS.

Maybe it would be a good idea for anyone with a dog in the hunt to e mail NHRA tech to ask them to politely reconsider.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

I'm not sure if we got 'reconsideration', but I think we got some time for maybe, possibly, could be, rethinking and relooking. Are those words?

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

I was thinking the same thing, someone should email them those photos posted earlier along with an explainion of whats happening ASAP...that frontend movement looks scary.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

SSDiv6...who makes those neat "bushings" you pictured for a 66 Chevy II...are those legal?

This is all bs imo.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

If you are looking at the lower control arm they are global west. There camber adjuster kit along with bearing kit are the only way to go on the shoebox novas. I can see it now after speeding days trying to get your front end to work NHRA tells you take it apart so they can look at it. Tom

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Any update on this??

Trying to decide what I want to do next year...

I have them in both of our cars, and am not sure I want to send my wife down the track without them.

Absolutely no performance advantage. I've got shocks almost at max adjustment to keep front end down.

Might be time to find something else to do...

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Brad,
You have a PM.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

I also didn't realize why my old super street mustang would be a handful sometimes on braking after a run. I moved up to a super gas tube frame car and it was rock solid.
I'm currently building (or trying) a '67 Shelby and I don't want to use the factory rubber bushings.
What about if we all said NO!
I seem to remember a muffler rule that came and went pretty quick.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Do you have Control Arm Bumpers?

D

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

I have been working on this with NHRA for a while now but as someone else said a few posts ago if you have a dog in this hunt, I URGE you to write Bruce bbachelder@nhra.com, and Pat pcvengros@nhra.com with your concerns ASAP, THE SEASON WILL BE UPON US BEFORE YOU KNOW IT.sooner for most of YOU than me but I'm not just sitting on my broken down ***** hoping it will fix itself!

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Current thinking is SS only, which I think is a mistake. If you agree, let someone know, your Div Tech person, your SRAC rep, or someone. If you think SS only is the correct decision, remain quiet in your seat, don't bother the girl in the seat in front of you, and do your classwork.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Hey guys I sent Bruce and Pat an email and I attached the pictures that I posted previously in this thread. Hopefully it helps. If you have not expressed your opinions to them please do as the new racing season is coming quickly.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Deleted message.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

The reasons given for not allowing these are absurd. It doesn't take Nostradamas to see the lawsuit that is coming if somebody gets hurts or wrecks do to this ruling. NHRA Dedicated to Safety? Or is this slogan as antiquated as a 50 year old strut rod design ?

Mark Madison 7995

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

It does not sound good :confused:, I guess they will inforce this rule for ALL makes & models taking part in the divisionals?

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Well I deleted my message earlier because I was getting a little P.O. Anyways I got a reply back from Pat that pretty much says call somebody who cares. Why am I getting in to this sh!t again? I can understand if I/we were asking for a performance advantage or for aftermarket cranks or 3 speeds to be allowed to be used in cars that only came with 2 speeds etc... but really they are going to stand and fight on a real safety issue. Well I guess I'll just make my own deal that's not a spherical bearing or rod end as that seems to be there holding point.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Did they actually give you a reason?

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Can somebody help me understand how this is a safety issue in Super Stock but not Stock? Do the rubber bushings know the difference? Are they only good for 130mph but not 150mph? I still don't understand. They acknowledge the issue and correct it in one class but not the other. I guess you get a year off if you show up with one of these correct?

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

I doubt that unless you throw a fit and become unsportsmanlike. If you show up without your car correct you probably will not pass tech and will have to fix it before you get to race.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

There is no reason to throw a fit, it will not get us anywhere. I guess IF it applies for ALL cars we will be spending more money to make our cars unsafe to meet the rules????

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

now that this is out there, I wonder if some people don't see this thread & show up with those parts in your car will they bounce you for a year?

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

LOL Not throwing a fit. I'm just trying to follow my elders lead. Mr. Teuton said that if you agree with what they are doing sit quietly in your seat. I'm not sitting quietly in my seat. :D

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Ok well I've been persuaded to repost my earlier message that I deleted with out adding my adjectives. So here is my email that I sent and the reply that I got back that details out the fixes for the issues at hand which are wheelie bars and big front tires.:rolleyes:

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

No, just that they are not allowing spherical bearings/ heim joints in stock.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

There you go...not ALL stockers are affected. Only ones with front suspension that use strut rods.

BTW, did anyone bother to ask the tech dept in the first place if stockers could use a heim end/spherical bearings on strut rods or did someone simply modify their front suspension thinking tech would let it slide through without noticing?

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

On the surface that's what one would think. Until the rubber bushings fail and takes out the strut car in the other lane. Hummm now it kind of effects everybody now doesn't it.

And Super Stock doesn't get out of it clean either with the Stock/Super Stock combo races. Just think about that guy who is hold 4 numbers with a brake strut rod front end that's going to go down and jump on the brakes.

Think about it guys.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

It appears that NHRA does not believe this to be a safety issue for stockers. Maybe there have not been any crashes attributed to this issue, therefore why allow thechange from their perspective.
Since they allowed it in Superstock, it would be interesting to hear the logic behind why they allow it in SS now and not in Stock. If they allow it in SS due to the higher speeds that they go, then what was the tipping point on mph?
Could they not also allow certain quasi safety items in higher class cars to protect them the same way? For example, not on a P/SA car, but a D car or higher .
Our 66 Nova has good stuff in the front end from global west, but we do not have the strut rod heim end deal. I would like to have it, but it was shot down a few years back. I can tell you that we have run our car in high wheelstand mode and we have run as fast as 124 mph in it. Now, it is a pretty light car and we don't bury the brakes at the stripe, but there have not been issues for high speed handling. I think if you have a car with this setup and NHRA won't allow us to upgrade, buy new replacement rubber up there. 40 year old stuff may not be good enough.
Now, I am not defending NHRA's position here, because it is clear they were not in agreement internally on this issue with SuperStock at least, but this issue might not be a deal breaker on safety.

There is a problem with some of the folks on the committees that are truly trying to manage the process of what to allow and what not to allow. Some of them have not sat behind the wheel of a racecar for decades! They are making decisions based upon what they hear, see and what they might have experienced 30 years ago.
We clearly have some very fast stockers out there now. Many are as fast or faster than SuperStockers!
I think that there needs to be more input sought by the SRAC members. It appears that the SRAC member input is undervalued.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Jim, I can tell you from experience that the input from the SRAC rep is ignored unless it's what Nhra wants to hear.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

What a great idea! Buy new replacement rubber instead of trusting old worn parts. Everything else is new on a freshly built racecar, why not new rubber strut rod bushings. They are easy enough to replace.

Or do some just want to use the "Trick of the Week" introduced to Stock class by a few who have a known history of stretching the rules. Sorry a few spent money for the wrong parts. Maybe they should have checked to see if the part was legal for Stock before laying down their hard earned cash.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Jason,
Do you race or own a stock or super stock car?

I'm thinking you don't. I'm also thinking you don't have a rule book so let me copy and paste the rules for the front suspension for Stock.

SUSPENSION, Front
Must retain complete stock front suspension system as produced by manufacturer for body used, aftermarket tie rods with Heim joints permitted. Lift kits/travel limiters prohibited. Sway bar optional. See General Regulations 3:4.

I read that as system meaning the same as the factory design. In other words if it came factory with double A arms then you can't redesign it and install struts for example; same as if you have a brake strut rod car you can't change it over to run double A arms etc... I think you get my point. The break strut rods that have been changed to where the rod doesn't go through the original mount I can understand their view on but when you just replace a rubber bushing with a bearing on the same factory brake strut rod you still have the factory system as produced. With your theory we shouldn't be allowed to run solid motor mount. Ya get what I'm saying here?

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Nice logic. Now just sell that idea to the techman when you show up at a race with your car using the wrong strut rod bushings. Good luck.

BTW, I failed to see the disclaimer where just racers that actually drive are the only people allowed to post on this website. There are others interested in seeing Stock and S/S survive without actually strapping themselves in the drivers seat. They are the ones who build the engines, ones who build the chassis, ones who own the racecar, ones who own the tow rig, ones who sit in the stands, ones who tech the cars, ones who put on the fire safety equipment, ones who work the starting line, ones who sponsor the racing, and ones who teardown the engine when the driver does not know which end of the wrench to hold. That's right, there are a lot more people interested in seeing Stock and S/S continue to survive than you ever thought possible.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Nope. There is no disclaimer that I know of but your lack of knowledge of the class is obvious and in my opinion you shouldn't voice your opinion on a situation that could decide a rule change if you are not going to compete in the class. Also, the rule book doesn't state that I have to run the rubber bushings. It just says that it has to be the stock front suspension system as produced by manufacturer for body used. Hey Jason did you see that they allow heim joints for the tie rod ends? Crazy isn't. That's definitely not "stock". I'm happy that you want to see Stock and Super Stock survive as do I but I also want it to be safe as well.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Well Jason, do you have a dog in the fight or are you just a self appointed member of the tech department? It seem's to me the guy that straps his *** in the seat and the guy that owns the equipment have the most on the line here , What part of this effects you?

Mark Madison 7995

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

There are always buffoons like you that open their mouth to make comments on areas they do not know about! Are you a stakeholder on this matter?

First, in addition to control deflection at high speeds and during braking, they must also rotate. Nevertheless, it is a no win situation. If a racer uses an OEM style bushing, they are too soft for racing; if you use a bushing with higher Durometer numbers or stiffer, then it limits the rotation of the bar and creates other issues including damage to the strut.

As for NHRA's statement such as "any car will wander/hunt during hard braking with a narrow front tire"; that is a whole bunch of baloney and shows their lack of knowledge of the dynamics regarding the front suspension of a drag race car.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Exactly! If you compare some of the higher class stockers that are running mid to high 9's at 130mph and compare them to a SS/H,I or J car that would have a comparable ET and MPH. Without picking a combo and doing the numbers I would bet that the stocker would be heavier therefor have more of a load on the suspension system under braking conditions. Which again confuses the crap out of me trying to figure out the logic behind this.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Jason, if you have no dog in this hunt, take a hike.

The spherical bearings in question were allowed 10 years ago with no issues. Now out of nowhere, someone decided they didnt like what they saw. How do I know? WE GOT THEM OK'd in Vegas 2003. I would not call that stretching the rules.

I was there when it was fine to use the stuff in question, and I was there when they didnt like what they saw on a mopar this past July.

What I do know, is on a Ford, the way the replacement parts work, it does not allow the lower control arms to flex and will keep them in check, without damaging the frame horns of the suspension after an over violent wheelstand, repetitive wheelstands, or any braking. There is absolutely NO performance advantage to this stuff. It makes the car more stable at speed, and controlable when the car lands the front end. Period.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Well I asked if they could explain how this is a safety issue in SS but not Stock and here's the reply.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Still didnt answer your question, did he...?

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

My dog can hunt wherever and whenever I want it to!!!!!!!

So it is in writing that this modification to Stock frontend suspension parts was okayed 10 years ago? Not a problem. I'm sure showing that letter to the tech dept will put an end to all the controversy. Thanks for letting everyone know that you have the answer.

Re: Suspension Notice for S/SS by NHRA
 

Hey Tough Guy,
Since you are so smart and this is your fight can you tell me what NHRA's logic is for correcting a safety issue in one class but not the other when there is absolutely zero performance advantage here and like I said earlier some of these Stockers weight more and are faster than a comparable SS'r. Please tell me how that makes sense. Matter of fact if my info is correct and I understand it correctly there has already been an on track incident related to the rubber bushings in the front suspension on a Mopar that took out about 4 or 5 sections of guardrail out at Mason Dixon in 2007 at a division 1 race. In case you haven't noticed Jason there has been over 22,000 views on this topic. I think its important to 99% of Stock and SS racers for one reason or another. Now that SS racers are in the clear and not sh!ting their pants anymore as far as the ruling in their class we probably wont hear from them anymore on this. But I can promise you if NHRA wasn't passing this for SS there would be more people than me and the few others here wanting answers. You've got million dollar cars going down at 130mph with OEM rubber strut rod bushings. Make sense to you Jason?