Originally Posted by deuces wild (Post 368364)

Pro Stock,Pro Mod,Top Fuel get the idea. People do not come to races to see Stock or Super Stock. Next time your staging your car look to the left and right and tell me what you see. Nada!

Originally Posted by MLP (Post 368291)

Pinks filled up tracks for one reason.....TV. Everyone and their brother showed up in hopes of getting on tv with their cars. Without the tv coverage, nobody would have shown up. It had everything to do with tv exposure and nothing to do with format, racing, tracks or anything else.

Originally Posted by dug283 (Post 368608)

Rising prices vs looking at having to win 2 rounds or more to get $$$??? Well just my $.02

Originally Posted by Lyn Smith (Post 368612)

Super Stock at the US Nationals.second round losers get $350.

Originally Posted by Alex Denysenko (Post 368613)

Just because there are new owners what makes anyone think that anything will change since the same 2 decision makers are still in charge :(

Originally Posted by Michael Beard (Post 368348)

1) This is merely archived footage. The entire event was broadcast live, including photo galleries, results, and interviews.
2) TV is EXPENSIVE. Pinks All Out cost "more than $400,000 an episode"
3) Missed a TV broadcast? Unless you DVR'd it, it's gone. There's very little multiplier available.
3) TV viewership is a guesstimate. Online viewership is trackable via server stats, it's a targeted, engaged audience, where advertisers have the ability to do more than just show static banner ads or traditional commercials. Audiences can also participate in live chat while watching the broadcast. Times, and audiences, are changing.

If it wasn't for my wife, we wouldn't even have cable. I canned it when I was in NC, and didn't miss it at all. There is an enormous amount of content available online now. The paradigm is slowly from "watch when we tell you to watch" to watch on-demand.



That would be the people that PAID to make the broadcast possible. While you can't skip it in the live broadcast, you can very easily click past it in youtube. I've seen a lot of threads recently saying how "sponsors should do this" and "sponsors should do that", yet people complain about how sponsors don't do everything the racer wants and exactly how they want it.

Quite frankly, I thought the use of 'classic' elevator music in the elevator ad was hilarious! Am I in the market to buy an elevator? No, and never will be, but I sure appreciate everything John Taylor has done for the sport, both locally and nationally.

Originally Posted by chris3racing (Post 368358)

"Pinks" and "Pinks All Out" are to completely different things. Pinks was a complete disgrace to drag racing. It was like going to a fight and a drag race broke out. Pinks, in my opinion, was suppose to appear to be a grudge street race for "Pink Slips." Pinks All Out was a tv show and you did have to do some "show time" in the pits and in the staging lanes but when you pulled to the starting line one prize of $18,000 was at the end of the day. If you went to be on tv with 550 race cars in 9 classes then that was a roll of the dice. After you raced the first time under their program you new what to expect, but track to track for 3 years we raced their series it was a mad dash to get into the race which fill in about 10 minutes, but the entry fees were reasonable, spectators cost was reasonable at $25 per day to see 550 cars run heads up and "all out.

Wade you hit the nail on the head. Whether you are a car guy are not there are still people who like drag racing and just do not know that there are race track operating and there are some good races. The tracks seem to believe that the computer automatically comes on and tells you there is a drag race this week-end at your local track. It seem that they fell that everyone will go get on the computer and look for a race. In our area, North Carolina, the only radio advertisement you hear is NHRA at ZMax and ADRL at Rockingham. No one knows that one of the best drag racing events in our area, the Stock/Super Stock combo races, ever takes place unless they are a family member, friend or a Stock/SuperStock racer.

Originally Posted by 442OLDS (Post 368357)

If the weather holds up,I think there will be a pretty good crowd this year at this event:


http://www.route66raceway.com/Events...t-Sundown.aspx

Originally Posted by Michael Beard (Post 368709)

What's your suggestion for entry fee and the complete payout structure?




http://etdragracing.com/magazine/jan...of-racing-math

Originally Posted by dug283 (Post 368867)

My suggestion is to look at the Bader days. The issue is not that the tracks have to make a profit, or the cost to compete has risen. But the reality that it is very difficult to go one or more rounds at the level of competition we have. A weekend warrior can win one or two rounds and not win anything, only the top 8 or 16. So are more racers more likely to compete in events that have large payouts for the top 4, 8 or 16 finishers, which is usually about 25% of the total car count. As appose to round $$ and more moderate top $$ payout? Could that have been a factor in the low car counts of the 5k S/SS events of the recent?


PS: Bobby, I like the ideal of index qualifying too.

Originally Posted by Lyn Smith (Post 368612)

Super Stock at the US Nationals.second round losers get $350.

Originally Posted by GarysZ24 (Post 368948)

That's good, but first you have to qualify for the field to even have a 50/50 chance to win first round, and if you're not -.8ish under, then you just as well not even travel there...

Danny (post #56), unfortunately out west here we don't have an IHRA option like you do, so we have only two options; either we race with what we have here, or we don't race...personally I'm not ready to give up on the sport I've loved for 41yrs just because IHRA isn't here with their pro-am series yet...

Originally Posted by Michael Beard (Post 368877)

Those absolutely are issues, and that's why changes were made in the first place.

You say half empty I say half full??? Your reply was not in line with my post. Tracks have to make a profit, the cost has risen to race, is a given NOT my point.


Yes, it is. It is challenging. It takes a good car, skill, and a little luck. If it were not challenging, we would just go to test n' tune and car shows. You can help the driver aspect of the equation at www.thisisbracketracing.com

Again, this is not my point?????? There are lots of quality cars and great drivers but there is a minority of racers that is always in the money rounds. And that's fine because they have paid the price to become the great racers that they are. I grew up with some of the best and I'm honored to have them as friends. But, along with many other factors, and No return on investment, no matter the size, is shrinking the number of class racers?

No. 2nd round winners do in fact get paid already.



Please detail the entry fee, complete purse structure, track and promoter expenses, what the necessary level of profit is in order to remain viable, and the car counts required in each class to achieve that.

Originally Posted by novassdude (Post 368920)

Please tell me I am reading this wrong. The way I read it tracks do not need to make a profit and you should win something for going one round. Well with that system the track is definitely not going to make any money. I don't like real top heavy payouts but it should require a couple of round wins to get paid in my opinion. And if tracks do not make a profit there will be no place to race.

Originally Posted by Michael Beard (Post 368985)

1) They had 2-3x as many cars and a much better economy, and 2) They didn't, for long. They learned that while it sounded great on paper, neither the sanctioning body nor the tracks could survive with that structure. If it worked, they would still be doing it.



$5. Five (5) dollars. To be able to pay even that small amount requires a massive number of cars. 75 cars makes $20 (gross). They draw more cars for a limited number of classes and run them all in a If this is the model you wish to use, is it realistic to expect 125+ cars in EACH of the seven sportsman categories at every race? How many days will it take to run 875 cars to gross $8,000? What's the track's cost per day? What's the sanctioning body's cost per day? What's your net? How much should the track and sanctioning body profit in order to remain viable?



Bracket programs are a completely different animal than a traveling Pro-Am series (and that's a entire editorial of its own). I worked for Bill Bader. I am quite familiar with him and the various business models. I have also worked with and for race tracks, and have co-promoted several of our own events. I designed a race purse calculator spreadsheet that makes it incredibly simple to run numbers, and the reality is indeed VERY enlightening - particularly when you promote your own events and you see all of the expenses that you didn't consider when it wasn't your wallet.



My point is that you threw out a suggestion without being willing to do the math and figure out if something was realistic or not, without any care for "cost, profits, cars or drivers." Those are PRECISELY the things you need to look at.



You cannot ignore cost and profits when suggesting monetary changes, and assume that the changes will have no effect on the tracks. They don't survive on good intentions. We all want the best for everybody, but not every segment can have everything. It's a careful balance.

Show us how it works. You've asked for money off the top and earlier round money. Lay it out. What's the gross of the current system vs your system? How will car counts be affected by 1) earlier round money 2) lower win money? What is a racer's break even point in each system?

I'm not trying to comes across as being mean. I'm challenging you to think through it. It's the same kind of analysis you have to do when building or improving a car, improving your driving, running a business, or anything else.

Originally Posted by Michael Beard (Post 369023)

Here's how you could make the argument:

Right now, it's a $135 entry fee in Stock, and the payout is:
Win $1,000
R/U $400
Rnd 4 Win $160
Rnd 3 Win $120
Rnd 2 Win $80

With 40 cars, the total payout would be $2,200.

To start payouts with Rnd 1 winners and keep at least that amount of revenue to keep the tracks and sanctioning body going, the payout could be:
Win $700
R/U $300
Rnd 4 Win $160
Rnd 3 Win $120
Rnd 2 Win $80
Rnd 1 Win $40

What do you guys think?

Originally Posted by dug283 (Post 368970)

This is my point, HOW did the Bader's do it????? Why not look and see what is being done different? Even now Norwalk pays for a 1st round win: http://summitmotorsportspark.com/ind.../mr-gasget-pro

Originally Posted by Adger Smith (Post 369105)

Dan hit a nerve with this comment: People come back because they remember a good time.

I think that is just human nature.
There were 5 of us in the shop the other day talking about racing. 3 car owners and 2 crew chiefs. The one common thread that ran through the conversation was that the expense of just going and being there has gone past the "fun factor" or as Dan put it the "good time". Both crew chiefs said they don't even attend the Ennis National Event with their family and sons to watch anymore because of the expense.
I think most of us older guys are still seaking the fun we had with cars when were were younger. That is about all that keeps us involved. After all most of us have not raced for a living. Remember the fun you had as a kid when your grandparents took you to the circus? Now we take our grandkids to the circus hoping they have the fun we did. I don't want to sound gloom & doom, just point out change. It is just a cycle and today the cycles of life are being broken. Why, many reasons, but I think most of all economy and the economy of a persons "time"...

BTY: A long time ago the guys that go around in circles figured out that payouts that went deep into the field were better for participation and racer attendance than the top heavy payouts.