Re: What's with the hood...
 

http://www.autoimagery.com/gallery/v...02173.JPG.html

http://www.autoimagery.com/gallery/v...1601E.jpg.html

Two photos look different. Is there two different years, of the same car, with the same combo that fit the same class and offer different options?

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Well everyone, thanks for noticing the hood on my Comet. I'll give you guys the short version of a long story that started about three years ago. Beside my 1964 289CI, 210HP/220HP Mercury Cyclone K Code Comet, I have a 1964 427CI, Mercury Cyclone K Code Comet that I asked NHRA to approve like they did for the 427 Thunderbolt Fairlanes for Stock. I did alot of research about Comets over a two year span to get the 427 approved by NHRA. During that time I guess I became a Comet Expert.
NHRA will not approve the 427 and if I pushed it more it would have to be decided in a court of law. I think we have a good chance to win or NHRA would have to make some combinations being run today also not legal. I don't want the latter so we laid off.
The hood was questioned at Englishtown last year and I gave NHRA some of the documentation. After that I raced several points meets, Bristol and Indy and did not get one comment from any of the Top three tech including one from "Headquarters".
The only comment was a threat that if I kept pushing for the 427 Comet the hood could be illegal.
The fact of the matter is the hood was an option available late in the 1964 model year on only Mercury Comet Cyclones that were K code with a 210HP, 225HP, and a 271HP.
For your information I have seen no performance gain from the hood.
If anyone wants to see some of the documentation I'll be glad to show some.
Thanks for the comments on the paint job and God Bless America and you.
D Lux

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Good to hear. In 1971 I owned a 64 Cyclone 271hp with the scooped hood. I always assumed it was original but with all the different opinions on this site I wasn't sure if it was original or not. Cool car.

Re: What's with the hood...
 

But a "K" code is only one engine; 289/271 so I don't get why the other HP 289's are lumped in together?

Re: What's with the hood...
 

The "K" code stands for the 271 HP 289. I dont remember what the 210 HP code is and there was no 225 HP in 1964. It came along in 1965. Ten 427 Hi Riser Calientie coupes were built and one station wagon (Ugly Duckling) raced by Dyno and Eddie Schartman. Dont know how many still exist. Dont forget that the firewalls were slightly modifed for a little better weight tranfer for the hard 10 Racemasters of the day on the A/FX cars.I guess with NHRA anything is legal these days with enough "documentation" from almost 50 years ago.

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Is this the former Tax Group, Mike Cates, BeCOOL car?

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Yes this is the X Tax group car

Re: What's with the hood...
 

A "K" code in a Mercury is not the same as a "K" in a Ford.

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Alex D may chime in here. He had a write up on a web site years ago explaining why the K code means a different thing in a Merc vs a Ford. He did state that the lower HP 289 was in fact a K code in the Merc.

Re: What's with the hood...
 

I am real surprised that this thread has now reached 5 pages over a hood on a Super Stock car.

After all,there are FORD stockers with "approved" Edelbrock aluminum heads and cut down rod journals in Stock Eliminator and its no big deal.

I have no idea as to whether the hood is correct,but if threads like this keep up,NHRA will probably not allow any cars older than 1980 in Super Stock or Stock.

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Found this on the web, hope it helps . Looks like this goes back to 6/2000 . I think the hood is right

No such car DT. 289 HP was not available from Mercury untill 1965! The car is indeed a "K" code, but in Mercury parlance, that stood for 289-210 HP Challenger V-8. It is the same engine as a 64.5 Mustang "D" code 289-210 HP except that the Mercury recieved the larger 1.12 600 CFM Autolite carb, as opposed to the Mustangs 1.08 480 CFM Autolite carb. Why Mercury coded the engine a "K" code is a long yet interesting story. If more than 1 or 2 people are interested I'll tell it and explain. Alex
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Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator




Moneymaker
Administrator
Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-06-2000 02:06 PM
OK, here it goes. By late 1962 Mercury division was hot and heavy into motorsports. The new fastback Marauders were coming and the rebodied Comet was ready. Fran Hernandez was appointed director or performance and given carte blanche. The reason for this was that L/M division was to have virtually no advertising budget for 1963-65. It was all to be funneled to Ford division. A lot was at stake with the release of the Mustang and it's success, so FoMoCo wanted no mistakes (read that as Edsels). Mercury began entering every type racing that they could compete in. NASCAR, USAC, European road ralleys, and of course NHRA/AHRA drag racing. They gave away parts and cars like candy. They had even fielded a team of cars for the Mobil economy run and won convincingly. This is where all of there advertising was to come from. The motoring press, all FREE! Their racing accomplishments got them tons of headlines and articles, hence free advertising. For 1964, the muscle car era had begun, and the days of the big car big engine were numbered. Mercury already laid claim to the name Cyclone as early as 1962. Their S-22 Comets were to be called Cyclones, but Ford division nixed the plan. So for 1964 everything was all approved, the car was done and very slick looking, all that needed to be laid in place were the drive train options. Mercury of course assumed that they would be privy to the 289-271` "K" code HP engine, and was preparing to mate it to a 4-speed with some really attractive rear axel ratios. They had the bucket seats, the console, the tach, the trim, the simulated chrome reversed wheel hub caps, they were ready to take Woodward ave. by a storm with this pocket rocket that had 4.11 gears as standard, and 4.30's as optional. That's correct, 4.30 gears as optional. All of the sudden a guy by the name of Lee something or other, got wind of this new hot Mercury for 1964. One of his stooges had dropped the dime! What's this????? OUR 289 HP in a Mercury? Not on your life! Because of the early 1964 introduction of the all new 1965 Mustang, and it only having 3 V-8 options, the top of the line being the 289-271, Ford division put the kebosh on the engine for Mercury division. Well, by that time, they had already started tooling and printed brochures. For still emphatically still said NO! They wanted absolutly nothing to steal any thunder from the Mustangs introduction. Especially from a sister division. Plans were already at hand to begin building A/FX 427 powered Cylones for certain racers, and B/FX 289 powered cars were already on the drawing boards too! When the Mercury engineers complained to Fran Hernandez, he told them to go ahead and "improvise"! Ford said that they could have the "D" code 289-210 HP 4V engine. So some of the engineers looked around the parts bins, and saw that the 1.12 600 CFM Autolites from 352 4V V-8 were quite plentiful, and would considerably enhance the performance of the "D" code engine. When no one was looking, the went ahead and put the deal together. With the larger carb the performance of the Cyclone would be equal to that of the lighter, less carburated Mustang. To add to the coo, the designated the engine with a "K" code. Since the carb was different, it was in essence a diffeent engine. And since Mercury had always had many of it's own engines that differed from Ford divisions, nobody noticed! When the car was introduced it was a smash in sales, both in the Caliente and Cyclone versions. Many sales were stolen from Fairlane because you could get a "K" code Mercury with an automatic C-4 transmission, and of course you coud not in the Fairlane. We know of course that it was not the same solid lifter engine, but they did not advertise as such. It was very confusing to the buying public, but the ploy worked and Mercury sold tons of Comets in 1964. Part due to their winning the Mobil economy run, and part due to their racing efforts. Next time your at a FoMoCo car show check out the 64 Cyclones, you'll almost find at least one or two. When is the lst time you saw a 64 Fairlane "K" code 289 HP ? Mercury fooled the public, and was able to sell more Comets than Ford could sell Fairlanes. Of course we all know where Fords efforts were consentrated for 1964, but that's another story. This is all fact, and although I left out some of the political details, it's pretty much the way it went down. I hope you all found it informative, abiet a little long. Alex
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Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator

Re: What's with the hood...
 

So tell us what does any of the K or D "code" fight between Merc. and Ford have to do with the hood pictured? Like I said.....it looks cool and if NHRA says go for it then use it but it wasnt the way the 64 Comets came unless it had the 427 Hi Riser in it. Saw a cpl of 271 HP 202 sedans with the 271 HP back in 1964-65 but none had anything other than a steel flat hood. My late friend Gene Collins (Alex should remember him as Gene bled blue if he cut himself) tried to order a 64 version with a 271 HP Auto and all the bells and whistles but couldnt get it even though he was fully sponsored by a Mercury dealer in Md. He got a 271 HP 202 sedan Model w/4-speed back in 1965 (He hated stick cars after losing a couple of toes in a cluth explosion in his Corvette) The dealer owned and fully sponsored Comet was Maroon in color with silver stripes like all the other Jr. stockers of that era w/black interior which ran C/S in 1965 against cars like the 389 SD 60 Pontiacs. Neither year offered the hood as an option ! The 65 car has been pictured in Super Stock Magazine.back in 65 at an NHRA points meet or at the so called "Presidents Cup" race at the now long gone Aquasco race track. The caption says the dealership owner was driving but he couldnt drive a nail with a hammer. Gene wanted an automatic car as the stick cars made him nervious so bought a new 66 Mustang fastback with the 271 HP and auto an named it "Pegasus". He won the Daytona winternationals with that car. Never saw any documentation on the hood for the Comet...... he couldnt get the hood or the automatic in the 64 or the 65 car even with all the right connections so spent his own money for the beautiful Mustang. . Im not fighting the right for Dlux to use the hood. I like the looks. Just stating how it was back in the day.

Re: What's with the hood...
 

P.S. I just remembered the Merc. dealers name. It was DAVE PYLES LINCOLN-MERCURY. A couple of years later he changed to become a Pontiac dealer. Named it DAVE PYLES PONTIAC. Dave Pyles used to own the Budds Creek Race track (Now called M.I.R.) long before Royce Miller ended up with it in southern Maryland. Also the C/S class was a 10.6 lb break in 1965 so that would be F/S today so there is no confusion. Im sure my good riend Danny Lattimore remembers the car and Gene although Gene and Danny were not all that friendly as I recall.....LOL. We all used to run around Aquasco and Capitol Raceway back in the stone age and I had a 65 Plymouth at that time. I love how these threads wake up all the long dead brain cells......LOL

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Terry, you are partially correct. Yes, it was Dave Pyles L/M. The dealership was in Marlow Heights, MD. He moved the dealership over to the Annandale area on Va. Then came Wison Powell L/M at Auto Row on Route 5. The very first race I ever went too was thru an invite from Dave Pyles to my dad who worked at the Ford dealership in Clinton MD. to go to Aquasco to see him race the car. At that time, it had a 289 in it (I don't know the rated HP) and was billed as an the only 289 FX car.

It was Bill Carnes that had the Pontic dealership. He was the second onwer of MIR, known then as St. Mary's Dragway. He bought it from the La Roque family, who built the track, around 1964/65. He in turn sold later to Tod Mack and Larry Clayton. Then Royce Miller leased the track for approximatly 10 years before they came to terms for him to buy MIR.

But having that be said, for an old guy, you memory of the past is great.

Tom Sr.

Re: What's with the hood...
 

I am sure dad will get to this eventually, but the 1964 Mercury K code "special" has a 1.12 carb. Ford did not want Mercury to "steal" the thunder of the 289HiPo in the Mustang.

Dads car is a real K code 65 Mustang 289/271hp 4 speed car and still original everything other than front fenders and hood. For those who have never seen it, the interior still smells new with a hint of rubber........

AD>

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Yep....You are correct. I had completely forgotten about Bill Carnes. I was thinking it was Dave Pyles. My bad. Thanks for reminding me about Bill. More memories came back to me with that name. I hadnt thought much about those days until this thread poped up. It was a long time ago. I was close.....Its a bitch getting old.....LOL. Do you remember a guy named Carl Condon (I think) who ran a neat G/SA(at that time) red 1964 comet Cyclone at Aquasco back then? Gene Collins was killed in an auto accident here in Fl. many years ago from what I heard after his divorce and he had moved down here. Prior to that we were partners on a 71 Dodge Challenger in 1971 with a 383. Ran good as a stocker but was a dog as a S/S and sold it to Frank Slater who lives in Aquasco. .

Re: What's with the hood...
 

another forgotten option..........parking light delete http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...pse2365fcb.jpg

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Who's teching these cars? I cannot believe that the real Stock/SS techmen would let stuff like this slide unless they are being overridden by their superiors.

Re: What's with the hood...
 

I thought I posted this yesterday, but don't see it now ???

Anyway I had my Carter electric pump hidden pretty good. I built an open box which I welded into the top of my fuel tank on the 66 convertible.
I ran the pickup tube into the pump in the box, then ran the outlet back into the tank ,and out through the normal sender location. I used the gauge wire to power the pump . I had tapped into it with a toggle switch up under the dash where I could shut it off if anyone got too close!
I left the pushrod out of the block pump, and the removed the divider walls from the valve area in the bottom of the pump..It was there strictly for looks!

I think it was '75 or '76 when you weren't allowed much of that stuff in Stock.
Same with spool and axles and solid trailing arm bushings.
Of course I had the frame from the S/S 4 door Bel Air , spool and all , under the convertible body!
I made the solid bushings kinda short so I could hide them with a slice of rubber from the original bushings on both ends.

The next season ,they allowed all that stuff anyway , so I didn't have much to do over the winter ;-)
__________________
Mark Yacavone 7001 STK
Southwest Nostalgia Drags, S/SS Combo Race
Next one: Saturday, April 13th, 2013 ..Firebird Raceway


And you're now questioning the legality of a hood that the owner has made no attempt to hide? I have no idea if the Hood is legal or not but I find this odd !

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Yup, I did....and I still do .

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Takes one to know one?

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Guess you know one

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Terry, you know a lot more folks that I do.
I have a picture of Gene's mustang at home, it was brown or a shade of burgundy. I think that it was from Budds Creek (P.S., when Bill bought the track, it was renamed Budds Creek for a while). I usally went to Budds Creek or Colional BEach with either Roy and Mary Wilsure or with Dickie.
I don't know if Mr. Slater still has the Challenger or not. It used to sit on that open trailer with the box on the front out on the edge of Route 381 all the time. I know that he has the blue Plymonth Arrow that his grandson drives in Super Pro. Mr. Salter is one of the nicest people in racing. He always speaks to me when I see him from when I safety tech'ed at MIR. no matter where I see him.

Thanks, Tom Sr.

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Hi again......Frank sold the Challenger several years ago when he got the Arrow. It was cut up pretty bad as a bracket car. Sad part is he threw the shaker hood out behind his house and it rusted away beyond repair. Some guys on here or a collector would almost kill for that hood and shaker scoop....LOL. It was a factory built race car Gene and myself ordered without any options or sound deadner. Frank is and has always been a great guy. I used to travel with Dickie Estivez and his brother in law Alfred when they raced the 428 CJ's and I was doing their cylinder heads. Later with Jim Morgan. Knew Roy and Mary very well when he worked at Speed Unlimited. I think Mary is now living in Cobb Island after Roys passing. Genes 271 HP Mustang was a bronze brown. I dont remember what name color Ford call it but he had some sponsorship from a Martin Ford in Mongomery county. Used to flat tow it. Later he had a 428 1969 Ford Fairlane almost the same color with the "Box top" roof line. Then the Callenger last. If some on here get bored with our BSing you can always email on here or by my email at zorascar@comcast.net I didnt mean to hi jack the thread. Thanks again for reminding me about Bill Carnes. Made me remember a lot of stuff from the stone age I hadnt thought about for years. It was because of Todd and Larry that I got to work for IHRA back in around 72.
Terry

Re: What's with the hood...
 

I bet cowl hoods will start slipping by on '66 Chevy II's soon as well...Oh well, it probably wouldn't be any performance gain??? May be just as easy to run hood pins and leave the clip 3 inches above the hood, so it's getting more air down track in that fashion. That seems to be over looked as well...:rolleyes:

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Thanks Dick for clearing that up, and PLEASE, no offense to you was intended. Some folks here feel I fell of the turnip truck just because I'm not racing right now, but I've been involved in the battle and around long enough to know how ugly the 289 fight once was....when dad fought Cloy Fitzgerald in '76 for 210 in early '65 A code 2+2 (ours has factory date code 8/64, came with 5 bolt bellhousing). Got shot down 3 times and gave up, went bracket racing. Then I noticed Huffman running that same combo in Div 7....the same deal dad, Charlie Hoffman, and Greg Foreman fought for. It's just upsetting to see how lax the rules have gotten, wondering what else we could get away with.

Re: What's with the hood...
 

ideed the hood was a option on the 1964 Comet Cyclone
I'M PRETTY SURE THAT DICK'S HOOD IS NOT FUNCTIONAL ANYWAY, SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT ALL THE HUB-BUB IS ALL ABOUT? AS I RECALL THEY WERE ONLY FUNCTIONAL ON THE 427 A/FX OR WEBER EQUIPPED 289 B?FX CARS.
SHOULD BE NO DIFFERENT THEN THE SCRAMBLER WANNA BEE NASH CAN FROM LAST YEAR

Re: What's with the hood...
 

correct

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Right on that Alex.The scoop was non functional,just a big old wind catcher.The car seems to have disappeared.

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Yac would never work for the "enemy"

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Correction : The enemy would never pay Yac enough to do his job correctly.

Re: What's with the hood...
 

Don't know if it was this thread or a coincidence,but there is a full page photo of the car in the latest National Dragster.Nice shot.

The car is even older than me.Did they really come with parking light delete option?

Re: What's with the hood...
 

I have a photo of my dads 64 Mercury Comet factory A/FX car. I just pulled it out and looked. It was a 427 car and the pic was taken the day he brought it home and it has a thunderbolt looking hood. Don't know how to resize pics or I would post.