Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

And then we'd just have new cars, and a few odd ball combos. And deepest pockets win

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Mike, the difference is the ones that want to race and the ones that have image problems. Like you said when IHRA was strong I preferred running IHRA than I did NHRA. One of the main things I liked was that when they had you on the schedule to run, that almost always within an hour of that time you where going down the track. They didn't give preference to the Pros over the sportsmen. Plus for some reason it seemed that you where not rushed like they do in NHRA. They also made you fill like your opinion meant something. You will always have those that will drive by an IHRA race to go to an NHRA race an get treated like crap, but what can you do ; some people just don't see the forest for the trees. Where else could anybody just show up at a national event, join the sanctioning body and the race in the same day. I may be in a minority, but I could give a sh-t if Top Fuel and Funny cars are left out of the mix.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

But the fastest car would win. Then Super Stock and Stock would not be a bracket race anymore.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

with all the rules NHRA has been putting into class racing, will street racing become more prominent?

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

The very first IHRA National event that I ever attended had some rain.After they dried the track,they went right into the PROs.(skipped the Sportsman)This was when they actually had PROs.

And IHRA can treat you like crap too.They actually would not let me pit with my parents,because we "didn't arrive together".

With the contingency of today's IHRA,you could WIN the race and probably still not break even for the weekend.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Jimmy Defrank just had to go through 4 heads-up rounds to win his race this year. Latino had a heads up in the final to win his. Every time one of these races happen the difference between bracket racing and class emerges. Those situations don't appear in Bracket racing....ever. That is exactly why stock/superstock combo's don't appeal to many stock/superstock racers. The lack of heads-up possibilities turns them off.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

IHRA always had a published schedule, specifcally stating the times that Pro sessions ran. That's not 'treating you like crap', it's following an explicit published schedule. Have they always been perfect? I don't think anyone has. One thing with Bader was he always told what a decision was and WHY it was made.

Didn't allow saving of spots? Good! I always hear people holler about all the roping off of multiple spots at NHRA events. Again, IHRA had a published policy. If I couldn't park 'here', I park somewhere else. Not a big deal.

Contingency? Refer to previous post. NHRA contingency is lower now than IHRA was 10 years ago. We and the sanctioning bodies should be kissing the feet of every sponsor out there. Where might NHRA be in 10 years?

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Then they should come to the Bowling Green combo races. We can, and do, have heads up races.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Will friends/family be allowed to pit together at the upcoming CLASSNATIONALS event you are promoting if they don't "arrive together"?

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Your right Alan, and look at your car counts!

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

May I inject myself into this discussion from a spectators point of view. Don't not separate the pros from the sportsmen one supports the other if the hra's would do it properly. First move everything back to 1/4 mile that is the true sport. Make the fuel cars simple to give the independent race a shot. One fuel pump and mag that will slow them down and make it safer which can speed up the program. Get back to night time qualifying on sat night, header flames are the coolest thing in motorsports. Chase fans for sportsmen by putting them on tv with a weekly show about sportsmen racing around the country highlighting differnt classes and tracks. Push your stars! You have the touring guys that people can see come to their event and race against the local guys. Fix the horsepower ratings so the older combos have a equal shot against the new cars. Everybody has a favorite regardless of domestic or import and the more combos that show up with a legitimate shot the better. Its about the full show, 10 hours of pure racing with open access to a full car show. Young people love cars we just have to show them our style. Regardless of age there is something cool about a hemi with wheels in the air motor singing chasing down another car.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

the last couple of IHRA races I went to up in our area(Byron,Martin Mi.) you could have come in anytime the whole weekend, with 10 of your racing buds in double stackers,and parked right next to each other, anywhere in the pits!!!

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

From a spectator like myself I liked it when Bandimere was a 4-day event. S/SS did everything, qualifying and class on Thursday and I loved it. No pro stuff! I know it must suck for the racers having first round Friday then second on Saturday. Now I just plan my spectating to Div. races. I haven't been to the Mile Hi's in years, but I try to go to all the Div. 5 races at Bandimere ane all the Div.7 races at Vegas. It sucks that so much has changed in the last 20 years since I started following S/SS.
Bob
P.S. Someday I might build a legal engine, I made sure my car was legal before I built it!
If I can ever afford it!

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

me too. thursday was the best, pretty laid back...now, unless i snag free tix. i won't go at all

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

I don't have a problem with people saving one spot. That's quite reasonable. I would prefer not to see one rig roping off half a row, however.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Do Not seperate Them. Adjustments yes.
1) Sportsman Thursday-Saturday
2) Pros Friday- Sunday with a Friday night session

I miss the days when IHRA had real pros. We would race during the day and see a decent Pro show at night.
I'm planning to race a couple NHRA nationals in 2014 just to be able to see that type of racing again.
Chip

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

I would think starting the Sportsman racers on Wednesday would give another day for one or two more qualifying rounds. I think the final round or two on Sunday should be maintained so some of the fans can see them and give those classes some exposure. From what I've seen over the last 20 years or so at Ennis, most of the typical "fans" leaves the stands after the nitro classes run. I've seen them clear out with Pro Stock coming up. It mystifies me, but that's what I've observed over the years. Maybe that is what NHRA markets the most, or is NHRA just catering to the typical "fan"? Even on the TV coverage, they tend to skip some of PS runs, but they can spend a half an hour letting Force run his mouth endlessly. I'd rather see X/S class runs than watch JF jabber on. Any racing is better than jabbering. The TV people like to see "drama" on these shows. The hot rod car shows are full of drama/BS. I guess it's something they learned in their college drama classes. I've always been attracted to the technology aspect of racing.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Start the sportsman on Wednesday or Thursday?

Are you people serious?

The people who have regular jobs, who do not race for a living, you want them to show up on Wednesday, or Wednesday night?

Seriously?

Even if you own your own business, who can regularly take THREE DAYS off from work?

And that assumes you can leave Tuesday, after work, get there, get parked, and get tech'd in.

If you only ran 4-5 national events in a year, that would be an entire two week vacation. JUST to run national events.

Never mind the LODRS races you'd have to go to in order to get grade points.

Who gets a month off per year?

And if they do, who among them has no other obligations? No family, no nothing?

It'll work great. The car count will be under 20, that way the sportsman don't take up and room or any time.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Facts of life:
1 , Breakout racing doesn't bring in a lot of spectators.

2, Flat out racing doesn't bring in a lot of race cars.


If someone can figure out how to get around those two facts, then you've got something

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

If we, the sportsman racers, could get someone at NHRA to listen maybe then some change could take place. Take for example leaving the National events the way the are but at some leave the sportmen classes out. We all know of tracks that are to crowded now. They have plenty of other fillers, Pro mod and the rest of the circus. Give every division a sportsnation race and promote those races as they do the rest of the National events with some TV coverage. Same pay out and points for winning and run class. Be able to set records. But have it where you can only claim three Sportnationals not race all of them and pick the best ones to claim. The points from the Sportnationals count for Division and National. And instead of having the National Champs decided by how many miles you can travel why not have it like the Allstars. Take the top five in all the divisions and the past winner and have a race at the end of the year at say Indy or Chicago to determine the National Champs. Just a few thoughts. 5077 the Big Red Ford.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Interesting last comment from Jim Bailey....

Think he meant wrapping up Points chase at Indy...and contesting it there...

Very fitting...and appropriate to host it at the "Big Go."

Many might not agree...some might like being on the road until nearly Thanksgiving...to get it done...and look forward to heading West....

He might be saying LESS Points meets...and LESS points to accumulate....for a
World Championship...maybe not?

Not trying to start "trouble" here Jim! Honest!

But...we're in a "down" economy...who knows when we'll totally recover...

Maybe LESS...is BETTER?

Thinking along the lines...of total $$$ and time spent...etc....from a Family
perspective as well....

Another benefit...aside from making it a bit more affordable...is it would free up
a few more weekends...so that you could spend some extra time with family....

OR attend a couple more LOCAL races that you might have missed by being on
the road....

What'ya think?

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Called Marketing and Advertising !!

D

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Yeah, like this crap ? :

http://www.mavtv.com/shows/won-and-done.html

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Yeah, what Mark said x2.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

YEAH you got a point but what ever its intent it brings some interest to Drag Racing.

TO me it is just Legalizing Street Racing so it is done on TV.
Stuff I use to do when I was a kid and not a lot of brains.

BUT for the TV promotion HELL YEAH...

We have a lot of Stockers we can do this same bragging right challenge the same way.

Creating controversy and settling it..
Such as bring out and restore the old Pro Stockers or the FX Stock Cars.
409's, 426 wedge, 421's, GTO, GSx, Hemi and so forth.

Put them on TV ..I guarantee it will get a following.
Bring the mysteries and legends back.

Hell who has the fastest V Stocker.
Cars are interesting and it is about time we brag about our passion !

In fact this is what our sanctioning bodies should be doing to educate and draw interest in our sport.
It is about reviewing history, nostaglia, challenging the minds with the new rides out there.

What it does is bring in business..

Then lets *** teh Foreign Makes..!
You want contovery..

So dammit BRING IT ON !!

it is all FUN !!

Dan

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

For two consecutive National events the PRO's held court by themselves (plus some Alky cars) and not that any sportsmen racers were there to witness it but has anyone heard how the experiment went? Granted, weather was a factor and sure the Lucas Oil competitors were thankful for being able to run their rounds without the track prep(?) for fuel cars. But has anyone heard it was a success from NHRA's perspective? From ESPN's perspective I'm sure they enjoyed the "drama" of shorter turnaround times for the Pros but do the typical fans really enjoy seeing less variety and fewer cars going down the track?

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Sad to say, but from my experiances at NHRA National events, the"typical fan" doesn`t care about anything besides Top Fuel and Funny Car. Once the nitro cars run, the stands empiy out quickly, presumably so these "fans" can stand in line to get John Forces autograph, and watch the crews thrash between runs, and hopefully get a facefull of nitro fumes, and jump when the crew chief whacks the throttle during warm up. These are the same fans who almost seem to treat anything below Pro Stock with contempt, and appear to enjoy walking 10 abreast thru the pits and staging lanes, and holding up the cars trying to manuver past them on the way to the staging lanes withut overheating. Of course not all are like that, but many are.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Most are like that. Most don't even watch alky cars or Pro Stock.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Look @ Michael's Live From Norwalk LODRS. Michael reported that the saturday crowd was the biggest one-day crowd in the event's history, topping 40,000! This show's the Fan base is there.

Leonard A. Johnson #4445

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

True. Talked to a co-worker this morning who happened to watch the race last night on ESPN2. He knows ZERO about drag racing and just happened to stumble on it flipping channels and stopped because his young son was interested. Being around it all my life, and especially Sportsman racing, I was curious on his take. He asked lots of questions about why do they make the tires smoke, etc. Basically he liked the Fuel cars but once Pro Stock came on (he didn't even know the name of them) he turned the channel and lost interest. I'm not sure how you appeal to a "fan" like that.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

The main reason why it is like that is because of the tv exposure. ESPN and NHRA have on tv not only talk about the cars but the drivers and crew chiefs. People attach to the drivers look at nascar and Dale Jr. Now if they did the same for sportsmen it would be a win/win for everyone. Say they picked one or two drivers a year and followed their progress. Say Dan Fletcher and SS and David Rampy in comp, explain the class and car fits and then follow them for the year give them 10-15 minutes a show. Show all the finals live from every class make people attach to the cars and drivers and you will get more people in the stands to see how that driver does when at their local national event.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Nhra screwed the sportsmen at Houston then did the right thing at Atlanta. Mother nature can reek havoc and no matter what the outcome somebody would always do it the other way. I didn't hear too many, if anybody, complain last year at Maple Grove when they finished the sportsmen on Saturday night so you didn't have to sit around in the rain for a few days.
If you are totally disgusted with National Events then stay at home. These events have not changed in the 20+ years I've been racing and they probably aren't going to anytime soon. Get over it! Sportsmen aren't the priority at National Events. The Pros are.
Keep us together!!!

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Found my” Old Soap Box”

There will always be Sportsman racers at National Events: The reasons are many > The Sportsman racers have to be in the pits , if not the fans would not see any race cars and the pits would look like a abandon space and a failed race image ,it is all about image /. The entry fees help pay NHRA expenses, The extra pit passes help Pay NHRA expenses, The money from the insurance helps pay NHRA expenses. The manufacturers row is gear towards the sportsman which helps pay NHRA expenses. The money from advertising in National Dragster helps pay NHRA expenses. The Money from chassis certs helps pay NHRA expenses, The money from the membership fees helps pay NHRA expenses. The low payouts help pay NHRA expenses. The money from the 500 at a national event or so racers who buy food and souvenirs helps pay NHRA expenses. I suspect that if a NHRA accountant who knew nothing about the process and magnitude of putting on a race he would be very happy to accept the amount of money Sportsman bring in and would not delete them lol .A person has to look at the overall picture which not only includes our eyes as well as NHRA eyes to come up with a Plan for all to have a good racing experience If NHRA fails we all fail to solve the issues >

Now as I get back up on my old worn out “Soap Box” this in my opinion again . NHRA must get together with the following: Racers who have no personal agenda, workers who work for NHRA who know how to solve some issues but have not told NHRA cause of no one listens, people who don’t have a burr or chip on their shoulder against NHRA ,race track owners who are very successful in solving some of the issues NHRA has not ,such as track prep ( new machines to prep< new machines to scrape and new way to schedule a race is a start)

A meeting with people who have a problem and also know how to offer options on how to solve those issues in a civil manner would be great ,all paid for by NHRA at a central location for two days with a executive secretary taking notes all day both days and then later come out with a report for all to see on issues and what can be done to solve them ,remember I suspect there are issues we don’t know about that NHRA has and we should know about them not fight them to have a successful adventure with racing our passion and their business ok I just fell off my soap box must go Granddaughter is playing the piano and I must listen lol

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

This is where we have to do something different.

AND IMHO IHRA has an opportunity to grab it..!!

D

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Byron I do agree with you, but I am not a racer so I only say what I say because I am a fan and love seeing hours of racing. NHRA will make more money not only by track attendence but tv sponsorships. If they put half the effort into sportsmen that they do in pros everybody would win. Like I said people get wrapped up in the personal racers if they put the drivers out there you can win.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

I agree totally the sportsman coverage is terrible. They could easily show the semi finals and finals of all sportsmen eliminators in their hour coverage of the alcohol classes.
The format of national events could be tweaked a little but for the most part they have to get the Pros in for their tv coverage. We do get bumped occasionally for this but that is expected when there are delays. We, the racers, need to remember that when we enter!

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

I say split em up .... Or have more Sportsnationals !!!!

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Or more Class Nationals... :cool:

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Great post, Rory.
Fuel Zombies , I call them.

Re: Should Pro's be seperated from Sportsman
 

Actually this might be a great opportunity..!!

The Pro's dominate the Public who will not look at other classes.

Having a Sports Nationals adding the Pro Stockers only would create its own following.

I run SCCA, NASA and AutoCross with my son and they seem to get a good crowd.

Made other suggestions about clean facilties.
Sportsmand Classes have not been lauded for a long time.
The only thing we see on TV are the 60's and 70's era cars.

We have some of that coming back and just needs more focus and marketing.

Again I think IHRA has an opportunity to rock on this..

Dan