Re: Racer Suspension
 

Well, if you are driving a car that someone else owns and you get selected for teardown and you refuse to teardown, you get suspended for a year. The owner doesn't get suspended also, do they?

Or if you go to teardown and get caught cheating, only the driver is suspended, right?

Re: Racer Suspension
 

The owner is not suspended.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Evan, with all due respect to your automotive knowledge, the seat belt material does not stretch to absorb energy; on the contrary, the webbing is tighter and the reason why they feel stiffer.

It is the design of the belt based on Biomechanics and the way is anchored that provides the protection during a crash. By design, it is one of the reasons why racing belts are wider than OEM.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

I am not so sure, Toby. In the case of Jerry Echman, I believe that the entire team was suspended........However, obviously, that was a completely different situation.
I was DQ'd for an engine infraction and we had conversation about suspension and a fine. NHRA chose to do neither due to the minor nature of the infraction......But, they could have. My wife is the owner of our car.......no mention was made of suspending her, even though her name is on the tech card as owner.

Regarding this suspension, I believe that you all have read the NHRA report......"Counterfeit" SFI tags............nothing more or nothing less. They didn't say that they are bad people (they aren't), or anything else.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

So if you drive a car that someone else owns and something about it is illegal and it gets found, the owner gets a free pass but the driver gets penalized? To be honest, that sounds backwards to what it should be. What if the driver had no idea something is wrong. There are a lot of people, me included, that drive a car that's owned by someone else. I know that the vast majority have no idea if the cars they are driving is completely legal.
Chuck

Re: Racer Suspension
 

That's the way I've always heard it was done. It's the driver's responsibility to make sure the car is legal. Of course, you can't check everything, but that's the risk you take for driving someone else's car.

I can see where the pros are a different story though. The driver, owner and crew chief are well defined unlike the sportsman classes. NHRA does things similar to the way NASCAR does it.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

evan you missed my point. my point is that if a 20 year stock seat belt half the width half the thickness will hold up a car. a two year old race belt can't be bad in two years.the two year rule on seat belts should be every five years at the least.there is no way that a racing belt should go bad in two years.my good friend owns a wire rope co he has a tester.we tested a ten year old racing belt and the metal hardware broke and the belt never broke. and jeff teuton had him test it.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

You as the driver signed the tech card. You are the only one (driver) that's has to be held accountable. Doesn't matter who own's the car. Bob Dennis is the only person who can answer what happen.(don't count NHRA tech person)

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Sammy, the OEM seat belts (~1.8" -2.0" wide) have a minimum break requirement of 6000 lbs. and must retain at least 60% of that strength (3600 lbs.) after long term exposure to radiation (i.e. 20 years), etc. (see FMVSS # 209). For a 220 lb. driver (95% percentile), the 20 year old seat belt can withstand about 17g (maybe a 60 mph crash in a modern car).

The attachments (metal portions) each must withstand at least 2500 lbs. (during a crash the seat belt takes the entire load, while the load is distributed to several hardware points.
Generally speaking, the hardware maintains its strength for more than 20 years. That's why you could pick up the 20 year old car by the seat belt.

Racing seat belts are wider and the racer is exposed to more seat belt area (3" wide, 5 pt.), which is very good in distributing the load to the driver during an impact (maybe a 60g impact). The problem, as I see it, is the SFI spec. indicates that the common material used in "racing" seat belts (Dupont Nylon 6-6) maintains only 60% of its strength after 1 years exposure to radiation, and may only retain 10% of their strength after only 2 years of exposure to the elements. This is what I find unbelievable.

http://www.sfifoundation.com/seatbelt.html

If the SFI spec. required manufacturers to use OEM type material (probably slightly more expensive) the seat belt recertification time could be extended, but the manufacturers would make less $$$ (you always have to follow the $$ trail).

Of course, none of us throw our seat belts out in the sun between races (unless we find out that David Rampy is doing it to gain a competitive advantage, then you would see Sun-dried seat belts for sale for $1000s on Racing Junk), so the 3" wide webbing will likely be stronger than the metal components even after 10 years. Hence the hardware breaking in your 10 year old seat belt test.

As I recall, the webbing failed (or the sewing) in Lee Shephard's crash in 1985, which prompted the seat belt rules being what they are today.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Good info Greenlight, appreciated.....do we know if Sheperds belts/stitching failed or early rumors that they were not in use.....regardless this seatbelt "fee" came shortly after that incident....and we are still paying

Re: Racer Suspension
 

What is interesting then is that NASCAR has a five year limit on these same belts?
It would seem their belts are liable to be stressed to far more G's then drag racers belts!
The rumors at the time were that LS didn't have his helmet or belts on? He'd been doing only 60 footers so that seems likely.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

thanks green light that is some great info.but i still think the belts should be changed every five years cuz our belts don't have the sunlight exp that a street car has. but someone is making a lot of $$$$$$ off of this and a waste of $$$$$ for the racers.just saying!!! but in the end bob and bugs got the raw end of this deal. and a very good friend that used to work for i am not going to say. said that L.S. did not have them on.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Sammy, I totally agree that belts should be certified for 5 years. I hate buying belts every two years!

Evan

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Here is what LS's widow wrote regarding his accident:

Hey, y'all. Reading all the comments about Lee's death makes me realize that rumors, reliable sources or not, are just not always true. He was doing 60-foot clockings that day, but he was world champ and had previously been in an end-over-end crash in Englishtown, NY, so he would have much more concern about safety than most others. He had his seatbelts on, and tight, and his helmet was on as was his fire jacket. Stories abounded about all those not being done, but they were. Alston installed the seatbelts which were made from sub-standard materials and broke under the force of the crash. His helmet was badly cracked on his way out of the car and there were fibers from his Simpson jacket embedded in the paint on the roll bar, he hit so hard. There was nothing he could do to get the car back under control on his way down the track with the crosswind, so he pulled the chute and the car turned instantly to the right and began to flip end over end, ejecting him early in the crash. He was killed instantly, leaving a huge hole in not only the racing world, but also in the world of those who loved and cherished him in his personal life! I know all this because I am his widow and wanted to let anyone who is interested know the truth. Thank you all for the kind words....

Re: Racer Suspension $5000 - are you crazy
 

$5000.00 is ridiculous!!! I can understand the suspension, taking points or something like that, but, $5000.00? I think $500.00 would be reasonable for a sportsman racer. Has NHRA looked at the payouts for Super Stock, $300 + for entry to win $1800.00 :(

Re: Racer Suspension - Sammy's Right
 

Sammy, I agree with you, seat belts every 2 years is CRAZY! Sometimes I think we get the cart before the horse. The best way to not get hurt is to not crash. A guy can put 1000’s runs on tires, 1000’s runs on engine, 1000’s on rear ends and driveshaft’s, 1000’s run on brakes? But his belts are new? With my chaotic life and being a professional 1st round runner up I get about 30 runs out of a set of seat belts :( LOL!

Re: Racer Suspension
 

I seem to remember the state of New Jersey having this, as another one of their BS laws, first.
NHRA said ...Hmmm.. another contingency opportunity. They wouldn't want to pay out any money themselves... so here ya go,..nationally.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

[QUOTE=Greenlight;381934]Sammy, the OEM seat belts (~1.8" -2.0" wide) have a minimum break requirement of 6000 lbs. and must retain at least 60% of that strength (3600 lbs.) after long term exposure to radiation (i.e. 20 years), etc. (see FMVSS # 209). For a 220 lb. driver (95% percentile), the 20 year old seat belt can withstand about 17g (maybe a 60 mph crash in a modern car).

The attachments (metal portions) each must withstand at least 2500 lbs. (during a crash the seat belt takes the entire load, while the load is distributed to several hardware points.
Generally speaking, the hardware maintains its strength for more than 20 years. That's why you could pick up the 20 year old car by the seat belt.

Racing seat belts are wider and the racer is exposed to more seat belt area (3" wide, 5 pt.), which is very good in distributing the load to the driver during an impact (maybe a 60g impact). The problem, as I see it, is the SFI spec. indicates that the common material used in "racing" seat belts (Dupont Nylon 6-6) maintains only 60% of its strength after 1 years exposure to radiation, and may only retain 10% of their strength after only 2 years of exposure to the elements. This is what I find unbelievable.

http://www.sfifoundation.com/seatbelt.html

If the SFI spec. required manufacturers to use OEM type material (probably slightly more expensive) the seat belt recertification time could be extended, but the manufacturers would make less $$$ (you always have to follow the $$ trail).QUOTE]

About 10 years ago, I had a discussion with SFI on this subject with enough criteria for extending the expiration requirements for Sportsman racers. I provided actual testing results on seat belts performed under the DOT standards with additional analysis that was extrapolated to expected motorsports and racing forces during a crash and additional studies based on published SAE papers. Guess what? They did not care.

If SFI changed the belt material specifications, it will not increase the cost of the belts. You can procure 660 feet of belt webbing that exceeds both the DOT and SFI requirements for around $150.00. The cost of the belt is in the fabrication and manufacturing.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

so glad to hear the truth about L.S. that is how untrue facts start.i still say that lee was a true racer and would hate to know that he was making a run without belts.RIP LEE. so we can finaly put that story to rest!! thanks to his wife.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

NHRA has the right to confiscate any part on your race car or whole car at the track . When I got suspended at Indy in 2008 they took my crank and I never got it back and it was their right to do so .

I got a year off for that incident and it cost me over 20k when all was said and done

NHRA also has the right to search your truck or trailer when you are on their property and we all agree to it when we get our membership , register for a national event or get a tech card.

If NHRA tech ask's for something you are better off to give it to them and not give them a bunch of BS .

It appears that NHRA tech is not going to tollerate any BS from any racer"s concerning safety or conduct at the track

Sorry to hear that MR Dennis got hit so hard but he is not the first or the last

Re: Racer Suspension
 

And there are racers that have been through tech with the same crank you got tossed for and went through without a second look. Same as all the worked over combustion chambers that went through for 3 years or so until the rule got changed. Lack of consistency is the problem. If a belt is bogus you don't pass tech. End of story.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

If he was suspended for 3 months on the 28th of last month how is he racing at Norwalk this weekend. On DRC it shows him qualified #4 in Top Sportsman?

Re: Racer Suspension
 

The two year seat belt rule is probably the most irritating rule to racers.

Those with big bucks invested in purpose built race cars, huge motor homes,
stacker trailers, spare engines, the best in tools, etc. don't see it as a big
expense. But, the not-so-high-dollar class racer or local bracket guy notices
it when the track tech guy shows him a perfectly good set of belts that have
a tag on them that is over two years old and tells him he needs to purchase
or recertify the belts. The racer many times hears "blah-blah-blah-blah seat
belts, spend more money".

There would have been nothing wrong with having Bob Dennis put a different
set of belts in his car, taking pictures of all the elements of the belts thought to
have a counterfeit S.F.I. tag and allowing Bob to take up the issue of the S.F.I.
tag with whomever he bought them from. Hell, it could have been the only thing wrong with the belts WAS the tag.

PS. I'm predicting Bob Dennis will quit before he pays $5,000 to NHRA over this.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Just guessing but, can he race pending an appeal of the fine?

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Conspiracy theorists need to start spinning....I couldn't find anything about Coughlin's suspension in NHRA's digital communications...could it be they only publish safety related fines/suspensions? Or...

Re: Racer Suspension
 

The car with the seat belt problem was actually the red Achieva GT/LA driven by Stan Perry and owned by Bonnie Dennis. Bob Dennis was neither the driver nor the owner!

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Then why the fine and suspension? Unless it was for their actions when the belts were questioned?
Chuck

Re: Racer Suspension
 

more like his actions

Re: Racer Suspension
 

TOBY maybe buggs was driving her car there with same belts. that would explain her involvement.

Re: Racer Suspension $5000 - are you crazy
 

Really?? You think people race for the winners purse??
Walk through the pits and look at some S/SS cars!
30K Engines
6K Automatics
5K Cylinder Heads
100K-200K Cars
500K Haulers-Rigs
Not to mention race weekend expenses like race fuel, travel fuel, tires, and food!

IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD THE MONEY FOR NEW SEAT BELTS, BUT YOU SPEND $100 ON A BEER FOR THE WEEKEND, YOUR PRIORITIES ARE REALLY MESSED UP. BUT EVEN WORSE, IT'S YOUR SAFETY!!

S/SS is an ego sport, plain and simple!!

I agree, Bob is a nice guy. But those that know him also know he skirted the system all the time. NHRA found a chance to get even. Plain and simple!

Re: Racer Suspension
 

dead on with a zero!

Re: Racer Suspension $5000 - are you crazy
 

Sounds fine. Until you are the one get even with?
We don't have a clue about how this went down. Who said what and How what was said.
I have been on the get even side a NHRA myself. Being tossed for to little compression, being not allowed to race because of an obvious typo, getting horsepower for going fast where they stated in print wouldn't count. And last but far from least running a final round 3 times (that one was back in the Farmer/Wally days).
If any of you think it's okay for NHRA to get back at someone Please have the guts to print who you are.

Re: Racer Suspension $5000 - are you crazy
 

Just standing up for a friend, I think we really race for points more than anything else, grade points and points series.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

FWIW, I agree with you, Ashton. I also think a $5K fine is excessive. Just because some people have $500K+ operations does that make it OK for them to fine us $10K or $50K?

You were just comparing the amount of the fine to the payouts. Nothing wrong with that.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

I race for the really hot girls.......

.....mebbe the drugs haven't worn off.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Kyle, glad to see there is some sense going on here. It all started out when a guy had a car, girls wanted to be with him. Now make it a race car and you've got something. But it still is hard to beat an astronaut.

If the seat belts we purchase @ $$$ are supposed to be so good, then why do they wear out so fast, for such little use. Can't there be a reputable safety conscious manufacturer out there to provide such a product. And if wear is not the problem, then NHRA should reconsider the re certification period and who they approve for safety products.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA strap me in.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Extortion

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"Exact" redirects here. For the exact sciences, see Exact science.
"Extort" redirects here. For the album by KMFDM, see XTORT.
Criminal lawPart of the common law seriesElement (criminal law)

• Actus reus
• Mens rea

• Causation
• Concurrence

Scope of criminal liability

• Complicity
• Corporate
• Vicarious

Seriousness of offense

• Felony
• Misdemeanor

Inchoate offenses

• Attempt
• Conspiracy
• Incitement
• Solicitation

Offence against the person

• Assault
• Battery
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• False imprisonment
• Kidnapping

• Mayhem
• Robbery
• Sexual assault

Homicide

• Murder
  • Felony murder

• Manslaughter

• Negligent homicide

• Vehicular homicide

Crimes against property

• Arson
• Blackmail
• Burglary

• Embezzlement
• Extortion

• False pretenses
• Fraud
• Larceny

• Possessing stolen property

• Robbery
• Theft

Crimes against justice

• Compounding
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• Obstruction
• Perjury

• Malfeasance in office

• Perverting the course of justice

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• Automatism
• Consent

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• Duress
• Entrapment

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Extortion (also called shakedown, outwresting, and exaction) is a criminal offence of unlawfully obtaining money, property, or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion. Refraining from doing harm is sometimes euphemistically called protection. Extortion is commonly practiced by organized crime groups. The actual obtainment of money or property is not required to commit the offense. Making a threat of violence which refers to a requirement of a payment of money or property to halt future violence is sufficient to commit the offense. Exaction refers not only to extortion or the unlawful demanding and obtaining of something through force,[1] but additionally, in its formal definition, means the infliction of something such as pain and suffering or making somebody endure something unpleasant.[2]
Extortion is distinguished from robbery. In armed robbery, the offender takes goods from the victim with use of immediate force. In robbery goods are taken or an attempt is made to take the goods against the will of another—with or without force. A bank robbery or extortion of a bank can be committed by a letter handed by the criminal to the teller. In extortion, the victim is threatened to hand over goods, or else damage to their reputation or other harm or violence against them may occur. Under United States federal law extortion can be committed with or without the use of force and with or without the use of a weapon. A key difference is that extortion always involves a written or verbal threat whereas robbery can occur without any verbal or written threat.
Blackmail, which involves extortion, is when the offender threatens to reveal information about a victim or his family members that is potentially embarrassing, socially damaging, or incriminating unless a demand for money, property, or services is met.
The term extortion is often used metaphorically to refer to usury or to price-gouging, though neither is legally considered extortion. It is also often used loosely to refer to everyday situations where one person feels indebted against their will, to another, in order to receive an essential service or avoid legal consequences.
Neither extortion nor blackmail require a threat of a criminal act, such as violence, merely a threat used to elicit actions, money, or property from the object of the extortion. Such threats include the filing of reports (true or not) of criminal behavior to the police, revelation of damaging facts (such as pictures of the object of the extortion in a compromising position), etc.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

now that's funny :)

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Fellas, you are looking at this all wrong. There are other uses for the old belts rather than racing. The really worn ones won't chafe as much. And the quick release makes a clean escape possible when the kids come home too soon.

Allegedly.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

This is really interesting, where was this originally written/posted ?