Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

No thats not it. I have seen it before but cant remember who owned it.

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

True, as long as you have the right parts and can read and follow instructions. There's a long list of "don't do's" that if eliminated will definetley make for a car as you describe. Best addressed on a new thread.

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

I don't get how they don't cost as much to run as an auto?

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

I have run both and a stick is much more expensive and labor intensive to race. The fun factor for a stick is way high and makes up for some of that. If you are competitive and want to go rounds you are better off with the auto. There are a select few stick racers that go many rounds but they are fewer and farther between than autos.

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

AMEN BROTHER ME TOO! My 65 SS Mustang was orginally a stick and it about broke me in more ways than one so I gave up and converted it to automatic in the mid 70's slowed down a ton but hard work and more dollars got it all back and then some.

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

Stick cars ARE WAY more fun, if your young enough to enjoy the maint. I typically have my converter & Trans looked at every two years. Can't see how that costs more to run than a stick.

Some stick racers make a lot bigger deal out of what they are doing than is real, but I guess it makes them feel good. LOL

I have a lot more stick passes under my (way too long :-) ) belt than in an auto, it ain't that big a deal to drive one. I made a pass in a friend's stick car a few years ago, one pass. About 5 Hun slower than he ran that day, and according to his play back tach hit the shifts pretty close. Surprised us both. They now sure shift easier than I remembered. I am not in any physical shape, nor any longer interested in the maintenance.

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

I know where there's a 71' Mustang stick for sell. Fresh everything.

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

$2850 +/- New Jerico with Long Shifter
$650 +/- New Bellhousing
$2100 +/- New Single Sportsman 10" or McLeod Soft Lock (clutch / PP / Flywheel) or $2900 for a Dual 7" Sportsman

Compare to new Pro-Trans or similar, PPP or similar shifter, one, if not two or three convertors.

I just went out first time in 7 years with a new Dual 7" Sportsman assembly. Followed manufacturers instructions, have nearly .500" throwout bearing clearance (one of the most neglected instructions and #1 cause of burnt clutches if not properly set) and .050" air gap. Manufacturer told me the counter-weight to use and initial base pressure. After 1st pass adjusted the base pressure from 670#'s down to 580#'s. I made all passes at 5800 RPM launch RPM.

No, I don't yet have a data logger. But I'd be willing to bet the clutch tune is within 15% to 20% of perfection and as it is now, good enough for 85% of the stick racers. And realistically, if I make two more base pressure adjustments, I'll know where the point of not enough base pressure is and you just ad a little more and your good. It takes less than 15 minutes to adjust the base pressure. A data logger will get the base and counter weights perfect.
I bought the Dual 7" as it's not only faster than the Sportsman single 10" but what I really saw as a major benefit was a larger tuning window. Which means less work.

And for some reason this shifts far easier than it ever did. I suspect it is two things. 1) the lighter & smaller clutch assembly and 2) I really had to much driveshaft angle that has now been corrected. Now it's that "hot knife through butter" shift where before I was really muscling it even with low base pressures. Whatever it is, I like it.

That's the cost comparison and setup. You can't compare something like this to something you had 5 years ago, much less back in the '90's or 80's.

Consistency - auto trans is a giant heat sink that affects the block and fluid temps more so than a manual trans. Once the clutch is properly tuned, you shouldn't have to work on it all weekend. You can adjust your lights with tighter or larger air gaps but be careful that after around .065" you are hitting the clutch and tires so hard that traction is affected. It's best to alter start RPM along with tire pressures; just like an auto car. Of course drive skill comes to play also. I see no reason why anybody shouldn't be able to hit a shift point. But then again, I can't understand why anybody would need an air bottle to make their shifts with an auto trans.

And fun? Nothing like shifting into second 3-4 feet in the air! I'm not sure I really want that Calvert wheelie bar I just ordered.

No, I'm not professing to be an expert. I just know what needs to be done. The lights I had showed me I was way out of practice :o !

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

That was my first stick pass since 1979. Nothing to it. Softer clutch pedal, shifted so easy it was like nothing connected to the shifter. Much easier than a slick shifted Super T10. I was shifting those is up the air back then. Nothing to it.

I haven't adjusted my one & only torque converter in five years. LOL

He mentioned cost of running one. No mention of cost of putting one together.

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

"If you are competitive and want to go rounds you are better off with the auto"

This was not the case for me. I had better reaction times, won more rounds including my first National Event, after switching my car to a stick. Very easy maintenance and more consistent car when done. The car did not vary as much in ET with weather changes.

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

Tranny temps are one variable many guys don't monitor. I'm guilty of that myself. Don't even have a gauge in mine. Some (probably many ) guys log ATF temps. It's a variable I should pay more attention to. Warmer is quicker up to a point.

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

Ed, most don't have a clue. Some do. Just because the car goes down the track, is relatively fast and doesn't break anything doesn't mean the clutch is "right". There's a lot of ET in the bellhousing but it takes takes time, work and a considerable amount of money to find it.... and the testing never stops.

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

I'm going to assume what you drove ( above ) was clutchless......clutchless trans have made anyone "proficient".

Would you say the same in a manually shifted car? Doubtful.

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

x2

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

I think that to find a LOT of ET in the bellhousing tells me you had to be WAY off at some point. There is ET in the bellhousing .

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

Its almost all in the bell housing, and starting line management

.At least when your trying to make fast runs to win class at Indy and the track temp is 120* or higher and your riding on a 9" wide tire. Forget about if your racing a big block or something with a tremendous amount or tq or rotating weight. You can make a fast run here or there but to be consistently fast requires a constant tune, and non stop paying attention to detail. Its not like a Showtime Grill, " SET IT AND FORGET IT" At least not what I found.

My car car was a decent Spring and Fall car. Was tough in the dog days of summer, especially at Indy. But that is on me, and why I made the switch at the end of this year to an auto.

To be successful with a stick car in all phases heads up, qualifying, bracket racing in all track conditions requires hard work, extra parts, money and know how. One of the most impressive things about Kevin Stubbs, the Zaskowskis, and some of the other sticks guys that escapes my mind at the moment. They are always ready and the cars work no matter what. Something I couldn't master with mine.

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

Was, but out of habit used the clutch. I raced stick cars for over 30 years, none clutch less. Auto car for five. Oval dirt track cars for ten in between. Hired crazy people to drive those.

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

How did you spend the first half of your life?

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

Man, that was cold!

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

Recently I received several PM's from racers that have cars for sale. Thanks to all of you for your responses.
Please not thast I originally started this post in June (2013) and shortly thereafter found/purchased a 98 Firebird LT1, 4 speed stocker (C/S NHRA, B/FI IHRA).
Other than a few electrical gremlins documented in another thread, I have spent the past several months learning how to drive a 4 speed again (burnout, staging, leaving, shifting) after almost 40 years of automatics, trans brakes and delay boxes!
This car has re-energized my passion for racing.....even though I've gone from a 7.20 Top Sportsman car to a mid 10 second stocker. Yanking second gear with the front end dangling 2 feet airborn is a rush!
I'm still on a learning curve and need to work on consistency (driver, not car!)....but I'm looking forward to next year and some fun class racing.
Between testing and 2 IHRA races, we've been .960 under in IHRA trim and .650 under at C/S weight. This was all without touching the tune-up that came with the car.
Hopefully, as I learn the art of fuel injection.....I don't screw it up too badly!
One last thing....I do need a good tutorial on clutch tuning/adjusting/management as part of my learning curve.
Anyone that can help me out here....please PM me and we can talk(you talk, I listen!)
Thanks,
John

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

Should be a fun car!

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

He was doing 35 Volt Tests on his Tongue making sure PCMs were working :D

Re: Jumping in to Stock or SuperStock
 

What?