Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

It will be very interesting to look back at this situation in 10yrs?
To see the state of NHRA that point.
Seems like racers are not simply going to be sheep anymore, following what the sanctioning body says with no questions.
Will sportsman racing still exist today as we know it?
More people will speak up now that Mr Barton has set a trend, hopefully.
I can't speculate on NHRA's agenda, but it don't look good, for there future or that of the sportsmen racer.
Sorry for the negativity but that's where I see this going.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

IF the fine and apology aren't reversed before the national event at Maple Grove, THIS^^^^ is what needs to happen but we all know will not because racers don't stick together, are afraid of repercusion from the NHRA and THIS is why you are treated like the filler you are at National events.

You guys need to stand with David and make your voice heard by hurting their bottomline!!!!!

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

David sorry about you being fined thanks for speaking up.Now lets be real.NHRA dosent care about how many people boycott an event,there gonna run the class weather they have 80 cars 0r 10.Ed about being sheep this is the arena we race ..The track is the same for everyone fair or not..Most of the BOYCOTTERS don't have adog in the fight..
We aren't sheep we are Class racers....Jump in the water is warm..

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Jared and 1320 that sounds like a good idea, it has been tried before in a similar fashion , i was at indy when the modified eliminator racers paraded down the return road in protest but it didnt save modified and it won't do anything now, as far as Barton having to appologize to the starter,wtf??? is the starter a thin skinned philosophy student???can you imagine Buster having this go on?? you would have got one of his famous boots up your behind , whether you were right or wrong, respect gets respect

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Its the Golden rule, he who has the gold (entry fees) Rules.................
MB

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

James, IF EVERY stock and super stock racer boycotted 1 event, you will get their attention. Doing NOTHING other than complaining on an internet website will result in NOTHING will ever change! That said, you know I have the $ and the knowledge to jump in tomorrow. ANYBODY with the coin can build/buy a 1 under combo in the year 2013. However, I refuse to be treated like sh...t, I refuse to park my rig in a field 1/2 mile away in the mud. I refuse to accept the junk track they say is perfect, I refuse to be filler for their schedule, I refuse to be ready at their whim, I refuse to put my car on a track that is either not prepped or too cold, I refuse to beg contingency sponsors for $. I am the customer and my money is green and good everywhere. I'll continue bracket racing weekly at the best track in Division 1 where track prep is NEVER an issue regardless of how hot or how many cars and I'll continue to race for bigger/better payouts and wally's as well.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

I've said many times nhra dosn't give a crap about stock &super stock. we are just fill a fill in like everybody knows. the problem is they will let more super gas, super comp, pro-mod, top dragster, top sportsman in & would probably bring in all nostalga cars. they dont care about us. they think we complain to much. they dont even care about pro-stock (the best class they have) they were only spraying & dragging to 1000 ft. i myself haven't raced in two years (been jr. racing with Michael my son) but ive heard all the complaints. the 70s ,80s & 90s were the best of times nhra seemed to care. free t- shirts & products without nhras permission. sorry to see not always fun like it used to be.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Tony is absolutely correct.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

x2

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

ANother day another complaint about NHRA. Being tossed for a degree on an intake lobe in stock. Cutting side walls of slicks that grew between runs. Throwing out all old cars from Stock. Doing away with Modified eliminator. Bogus spec motors being allowed to keep from a suit over mis interpretation. Doing away with Pro Stock Trucks. Making time trials directly after Jet cars at points meets running on the diesel fuel for 3 to four pairs without re runs. Sadly many forget there will always be another disappointment. Another break down in the rules or enforcement. It is a business with employees who bend with the minute or day due to fatigue of pressure from "upstairs".
Good Luck to David Barton.... Glad you at least didnt crash it again..
Want to race again? You may need to do what is asked by NHRA, and accept another disapponting condition we cannot hope to correct every time.
I miss the racing, I do not miss the adgitation.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Toby, you are smarter than that! Walk on the starting line and ask your self it it as sticky as it use to be. Anyone who has 20 lbs of air pressure may not agree. But if you are running 8 or 9 lbs and still and still spinning, the track if bad. VHT would pull your shoes off. PJ1 will not. The hotter the surface the worst the bite!

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

VHT always had a very distinked smell, haven't smelled that smell in years.
Chuck

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Well, based on the email from NHRA that Ken posted, I would hope NHRA will reconsider the fine levied.

HOWEVER, if there is any truth to Mr. Barton "using profanity" and being less than professional in his complaint, then he should reconsider that next time, as well...

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

John, keep in mind, most tracks "cut" the spray with their own magic formula. They try to stretch the glue by mixing some blend they have come up with and try to convince the racers its the hot ticket. Most of the time, it falls short and wears off before a few rounds get completed. D3 has sworn off of VP. Maybe its the product, or the way the track manager applies it, or how he chooses to cut it. But, since all D3 divisionals have started using VHT, its become more consistent. Depending on how much of a tightass your track owner is will have a direct effect on shoe removal!

Congrats on your record!! You guys deserve it!!

Wade

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

A big thank you to everyone that has sent me a contribution already. I see several people have commented about using PayPal so I just opened up an account under david@raybarton.com

Once again, thank you all for being so supportive.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Anybody read their email from Josh Peterson? He blames the scedule on racer input and semi apologizes because the race was a cluster. More mangled dukie.

I'm contributing to this cause today.

I would not even appeal this crock. I would be like, sorry for the rant dude. Here's your money and dismiss these folks for what they are.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

First things first I CANNOT believe anyone one give a dime to David..... A couple things here,First off, the guy has a HIGH powered Motor on a small tire, next the track is EXTREMELY hot, so yes, MANY MANY people spun with the same kinda cars. Sorry, but he deserves the fine, he stop's the car ON THE TRACK and gets out yelling with his foul mouth. There are things you can and cannot do, and that is one of them you cannot do. Not to mention how he screwed his own "SPORTSMAN" racer behind him in the burnout box. As far as your video of your crash on another poorly prepped track., learn how to lift next time, and not correct it to hard. If you ask me, I think maybe his Dad should pay the fine, not other sportsman racers since David is out there promoting his Dad.

Maybe you guy;s can help me out, I got pulled over the other day, and when the cop came up to the car I jumped out and starting cussing him out, and i got locked up. I set up a Paypal account for my fellow sportsman racers to bail me out. Thank you for your time guy's, and remember.... SAFTEY FIRST.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

So, what would you propose they use instead of PJ1 (which is the same thing as VHT except the name)?

Also, what Wade said.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

I still applaud David for having the balls to let them know how he felt about those deplorable track conditions however several class racers have expressed to me that david deserves what he got.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

sorry it's 'safety' first

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Thanks for your opinion no name, no body

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

This clown is calling for safety first while attempting to defend the indefensible. The starting line was the hazard not David's actions or comments. And he wasn't on a gd highway dealing with cops. My check is in the mail.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

I don't always heed my own advice but everybody count to ten before hitting " post reply".
These types of threads always seem to get ugly.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Seems to me the final decider as to whether or not to make a run is the driver. While there's no excuse for an unsafe racing condition, if I start my burnout in the left lane,for example, and notice a hood lying in the lane between the 1000 and the end, I'm not going in until they move the hood or toss me out. Same with bad traction conditions.In the event cars are going all over the place while you sit and watch, you have the option to either refuse to stage, leave the track, or make the run and take your chances.I have left test and tunes without getting a good run because conditions were not good. Once at a points race, the fat red faced potbellied redneck running the front of the lanes was practically swearing at me for refusing to roll up behind two cars doing a burn out. I refuse to get a broken windshield or side glass from flying rocks because some loser track official orders me up. Once the cars moved up to stage, I rolled up and positioned myself for a run,leaving him behind. Seems that at a Western national event a few yeaars ago, an entire eliminator catagory refused to run because the track was that bad, so they finished that race at the next national event. I don't care who is in charge, safety of people and cars comes first.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Toby, just walk on the starting line and see for your self. I really do not think PJ1 is the same as VHT. That's all I'm saying. I am told PJ1 costs less VHT. Something is wrong, it is just that simple. Last year when I walked on the starting, it would pull your shoes off. This year the tracks are using PJ1 and the surface is sticky, but not nearly as it was last year.
When I set the C/S record, the first run I almost aborted the run. That's how badly the car spun. The second run hooked better, but not nearly as good as I am use to.
Thanks Toby...on what Wade said. Good luck to you guys on the left coast.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

VHT Trackbite is a PJH product.. On the side of the drum ,in big letters it says..PJ1...Here is the link from Jegs to purchase it (at the bottom)...It can be purchased at several places here in OHIO. It smells like cotton candy when they spray it on the track....Well, at least to me it does.

TRACKBITE1
VHT TrackBite Traction Concentrate is a unique formula that is designed to create adhesion between rubber, asphalt, and concrete. This product is available from Bazell Race Fuels in 55-gallon drums, and can be shipped via common carrier. As a promoter, you need to insure the fastest, most exciting race that you can. TrackBite is the only track treatment that can assure more exciting racing without harming your track. The more entertaining your races are, the greater attendance you will develop. You must compete with all other forms of entertainment in your area and there is nothing that will drive fans away from your track faster than a dull race. Conversely, nothing will attract fans faster than exciting races and finishes. TrackBite will increase race competition and make your track faster than others. TrackBite stays tacky for weeks and won't run off, even in heavy rains. Most of all, it won't harm your track, it actually seals and protects the asphalt.

TRACKSPOT1
VHT TrackSpot is a powdered resin traction compound designed to aid in traction and the removal of bald spots from track surfaces. Low horsepower cars or cars with narrow tires place their cars in the same place on the starting line repeatedly. After many cars leave the starting line from the same spot, the rubber is removed and bare concrete begins to appear. If no care is taken to put the rubber back on the bald spot, the area will become larger and elapsed times will become slower. VHT TrackSpot is specially formulated to quickly apply rubber to the track surface to reduce bald spots and elapsed times. TrackSpot is available in 5 gallon pails.

TRACKBLACK1
PJH Brands is proud to announce an additional product for racetrack surface improvement. TrackBlack increases appearance, safety, and performance by maintaining consistency on the edges of the track. Not for the starting line or the traffic groove, VHT TrackBlack enhances teh appearance of the less-used track surface. It is ideal for enhancing televised or other filmed events. Exposure to the elements and normal "wear and tear" leave the track barren and discolored. TrackBlack returns the rich dark black color, seals the surface, and restores the consistent peripheral traction areas to that of a world-class racetrack. TrackBlack is part of a complete track preparation solution and is for use in conjunction with VHT TrackBite. TrackBlack is available in 55-gallon drums, and is applied similarly to TrackBite.

TrackBite, TrackBlack and TrackSpot can be shipped directly to your track or place of business. Please call (800) 521-5420 for pricing. We sell traction compound for track application only. We do not sell gallon jugs of traction compound for tires.

1VHT, TrackBite TrackBlack and TrackSpot are registered trademarks of PJH Brands.

Back to Track Preparation


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...tN7DQiocyupJ0w

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

If NHRA can't make a fair playing field, they have no right to charge $310 entry fee.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

My thoughts exactly. Whatever their excuses are, we all paid for a professionally prepped race track. The biggest slap in the face for me is the head starting line guy claimed he didn't have time to drag the line because he had a schedule to stick to.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Looks like $2810 if you want to complain about it. Weren't both lanes screwed? That would be fair wouldn't it?

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

The problem is not PJ1, at Piedmont Regular Pro Mod racers run 3.80's in the 1/8 on PJ1 testing many times a month, there is a process to prep the track and NHRA does it before the pros run.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Exactly.. more involved than just spraying glue. Every track has their own secret formula but I suspect they all cut what comes out of the drum. No idea if this is factual but I've heard the "new" PJ1 is already cut and hence cheaper. Cut it some more and guess what!

VP Lane Choice has it's own good and bad properties but it would sure be nice if someone who really knew the full story spoke up.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Just put Redman from div 3 in charge and problem solved. I saw him put hook down at Byron at the The first Class Nationals in 100 to 105 degree heat with track temps as high as 140 and sandy soil pits for 3 days straight. Pay the man and let him do his thing. There is absolutely no excuse for a crap track in any conditions. Don't remember any different wheelbase cars other than s/ss and some nostalgia full bodied cars there. So everybody must have been leaving in the same spots give or take a foot and I never saw anybody having to move to get out of bald spots. However I do know that he was allowed full control over whatever and how much spray and powder was used. All these excuses are plain bs. Track prep should be the FIRST order of business at a racetrack. Not only is it a safety issue but spin breaks parts. Remember, the average s/ss car weighs 3000lbs and up. It takes a higher coificent of adhesion to get 3000 pounds to move from a standing start than a 2000lb car. If sanctioning bodies have a problem with providing that then we need to find someone who will.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Is that the same schedule that cut a qualifying run to Comp and Top Sportsman on Thursday?

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

I heard on Monday that VP was used for the sportsman and PJ1 for the pros,can anyone confirm or deny this ?

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

I'm in Chicago this weekend and the track is prepped like a national event . They are using gold dust here and it works . They are also spraying , dragging and working on the track in between classes. Its the same NHRA , put the Div3 crew in charge of national events and big races . I ate to say it but who ever was in charge at Etown needs to get a letter and the racer should get a refund. I say BS to the fine , appologize to the starter and move on in the name of good sportsmanship

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Jared remember what happened to the Modified Clan when they decided to park their cars at Indy, it gave NHRA a good reason to get rid of a group that was taxing their resources. David your Pay Pal is on it's way, hope it helps. CR

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Being race director at Speedworld Phx AZ. I would have a lot of races that I had free rein on what needed to be done. We would scrape when time permitting. Scrub track do to desert conditions and whatever was on track from past week. Tire drag rosin in $15 worth. Glue entire lane up and then back done to widen groove. Light tire drag first 200 foot and then reglue to around 400 ft. Yes the glue has to be mixed with something. Methanol was what we used. Cost of material to do this was around 40 gallons at a mixed price of $12 a gallon. So $480. If it was a full weekend of heavy racing, this would be done on Friday. Sat. tire drag and maybe 25 gallons of glue $300, Sat. night tire drag and maybe 15 gallons of glue $180. On Sunday after 3 events and that much product believe it or not tire drag and were good to go. Then for the race we could use a couple gallons on starting line of straight glue, $20 times 2 gallons times four events of racing. Yes there is man hours but we were paid a flat rate which was good for up to 8 hours of work. Then we were paid hourly after that. If we were going past 8 hours then we must have had a good car count. ( I know we always had the same people complain about track and at times my hands were tied because of no cars, but for the most part we had a good to great track)
To me this is not expensive when looking at the income of a national event. Hell even if they used twice as much its still worth it. PJ1 was the glue

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Anybody remember "Moose Juice"? Seemed to work real good years ago.

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Lets go back to bleach and light it on fire baby!

Re: Who didn't see this coming? - Barton
 

Back in the day, Bob Curley would spray PRP (Speedworld) with Coke syrup and it would stick forever in the 100 degree plus desert heat. Bernie Longjohn would do the same thing at LACR in 100 plus temperatures and it would rip your head off. I have no idea what the problem is with the way NHRA preps for a national but obviously it does not work. Raceway Park is a class place with a great history. Their bracket programs and the S/SS combo races they have do not show traction issues. National events are prepped for the fat tired BS pro show and that leaves the 9" Stock racer with three choices....
A...work on your car to make it work all the time, stick anywhere.
B...don't race nationals, race the points races only on local track prep
C...quit racing

Mr Barton has a legit beef and has a right to be pissed. He just said the wrong thing to the wrong guy in the wrong place at the wrong time. We all play in their sandbox to their rules. Live with it or don't race, simple.