Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

It's extraordinarily rare that I ever encountered a traction issue at any IHRA event, but one year at a Bracket Finals many years ago, we were there on Wednesday for an Early Bird Gambler's race. A couple of the local staff had recently quit, and didn't tell anyone, so they were short handed, and whoever the guy was on the starting line (IHRA starter wasn't due in until the next day) must've thought his job entailed nothing more than flipping the switch. I blew the tires off in a pile of rocks on the starting line. Didn't even throw stuff in my logbook. Parked the car in my pit, got out, and stomped toward the starting line. Didn't holler, just grabbed a push broom and started working. This guy didn't even glance at me sideways like "Who's on my starting line?" Nothing. After awhile, one of the EMT's must've felt bad for me, because he grabbed the other broom and started helping. We got the line back into shape. If you drag junk into the burnout box, you're going to get junk on the starting line. It still amazes me that people don't clean out their wheel wells/rocker panels. I still get funny looks when I'm cleaning mine in the lanes... often come up with half a handful of sand or pebbles, depending on where you're pitted. With the regular staff in place, it was fine the rest of the weekend.

I worked the starting line at Quaker City before and discovered (self-evidently) that if you KEEP the starting line clean, it stays clean. I'd be over the rail every pair to get any tiny dot of fluid or pebble. Let it build up, and you're going to have trouble bringing it back around. Ran two complete rounds of time trials with 260 cars without so much as a touch-up, and the place would still take your shoes off.

Sometimes you're going to have problems that are out of your control. The best thing you can do is recognize a problem when it starts, and get on top of it as quickly as possible. We run some big money bracket races in November, and cold temps come into play at night. We've learned: If the sun is down, any time there's not a car going down the track, the drag needs to be on the track. There's no more helpless feeling for a promoter than seeing the track not working.

I've got Redman in charge of the line at the Class Nationals next year, and we'll give him all the tools he needs to do what he knows to do. Done! :cool:

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Good responses:

Here is some feedback.
Certified Referees go through annual refresher courses to keep us current on issues.
In fact I study a little bit all year long, reading, taking tests, discussing the art of reffing, staying fresh.
All management teams do this too. So does NHRA.

One person rarely by themselves can make a change.
Had it been only Mr. Barton do you really think that anything would change?

I do not care how much of a *** kicking one person tries.
Not going to make a different unless the issue is backed up by others.
Mr. Barton would have gotten more mileage by recruiting the racing community on the matter.
Class Racer is a venue to do it.
But too much was about his rage rather than the issue.
His attitude put me off.

Good sportsmanship is what Mr. Beard did to help out a tough under staffed night.
I have popped over the fence to help spill downs as well.

Far as I am concerned poor track conditions, well that is part of racing.
No more than if your opponent had a mishap and could not show up to the line.
Just part of the fates we experience win or lose.

It is really not that hard to get a Rule or HP rating changed.
Been successful getting many things changed writing a letter, editorial or article, including drag racing.

Again Mr. Barton's behavior is not acceptable.
We understand his rage but an adult he has to moderate it.
He represents the sport and impressionable kids see this.

Before Reffing a game I have to do a bit of preparation.
Learn as much as possible about the teams, coaches, history of their records.
Then there is field game management

I line up and speak with the kids and coaches making sure they are prepared.
Some teams can be particularly challenging.
Safety is always first. Which is Mr. Barton's real issue.

Then I talk to the parents to cheer and enjoy the game
and
remind them to "Behave Like Parents".

They laugh a little about it but they get the message.

Dan

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Dan, i think you are missing the point. NHRA continues to treat sportsman racers like cattle, and does not value our input on anything. Oh, they pay fine lip service at times, but they really coul care less. That was evident by the starters response to David.

None of us know exactly what transpired when David got out of his car. But NHRA heard him loud and clear. He stopped their show, and expressed his opinion. if the suits in Glendora aren't in a coma, they know that 99% of the racers stand behind David Barton. There is a time for civility, and it's been tried for years. Sometimes you have to lose it for people to understand that you're serious. It's like dealing with a bully, you have to stand up and defend yourself. It's very easy to trash can an email or letter. It's impossible to ignore a man standing in front of you expressing his opinion.

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Dan,
Were you racing at E town? We were so busy that I never got a chance to study the sheets. You have a lot of advice to offer about soccer but I don'think I've every met you at a Divisional or National race. Please come by for a visit when you do.

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Well said chad.

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Dan, I've been sitting here trying to figure out how to respond to your post. Chad has said it as good as I can figure. If the NHRA is behaving like parents then they're very neglectful parents!

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore..........

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

IMHO - that number is incorrect

This forum is not even close to a representative sample of racers

We are not children and should expect better from ourselves than throwing a public temper tantrum and angry outburst

That would not work in my house or on our team

Ron

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Im sure the majority of the racers on this forum are on his side. There is nothing wrong with speaking up once in a while. Unlike many, David works on every area of his car. Engine assembly, car assembly, tuneup, and ect! He spends countless hrs on his program. He has one of the fastest drag pack cars in the country, because of his hard work.
When somebody spends all that time and effort, and the results are out of his hands because of an organizations lack of effort at track prep, it can frustrating. He had enough and told them about it. He lost in the shootout because of wheel spin, and didnt have a chance to compete in a heads up in the eleminator for the same reason.
He felt the way to handle it was take his case to the higher authorities, maybe someone will listen. I support his position, and stand with him and the other racers that wanted to be treated fairly when we pay our entry fee.

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

This forum has nearly 12,000 members with many thousands of visitors each day. You can bet your bottom dollar that this forum represents the opinions of real racers!!! There are some who come here with these crazy notions of connecting soccer and other sports stories to drag racing. Simply, apples to oranges. Ever see a professional ball player argue a bad call with an official in baseball, football, tennis or soccer? Sure you have! None of us are choir boys or girls, we have our emotions to deal with, and any one of us can push back against an unfair situation.

I'll bet David has the support of the overwhelming majorityof REAL racers. The arm chair guys can chime in all they want but they weren't sweating their asses off trying to get 5 different cars to launch off a poorly prepared starting line. And with very little help from the starting line crew! I saw it all go down and totally understand why David had had enough.

For me this story is more about the poor race that nhra produced than it is about one man becoming frustrated. nhra sent us an apology for their lame effort, but they arrogantly fined and demanded an apology from David. Typical real world disconnect for nhra. They should have sucked it up and let it go.

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

We l saidBruce..Dan lives in fantasy land..
Like I have said more non racers than racers..
Enough of Pure Stock......They are like the Harley classes....bogus

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Bruce thanks so much for that extremely useful information.. 99 % .. public temper tantrums and displays of anger are not acceptable .. they are punished severly in all sports and most homes .. I new better than to go against the grain but I am a racer and am entitled to my humble opinion .. just not on this forum

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Andy,
Racer? Yes, you are entitled to your humble opinion.

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Two questions

1. In the several years preceding this, has anyone used professional tactics to get NHRA's attention, and actually accomplish positive change?

2. Did David Barton get NHRA's attention?

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

#1.....I assume no, otherwise you would have never brought it up.

#2....Sure, put them $2500 up and Barton $2500 in the hole. The embarrassment of the formal apology has yet to come. He said the wrong thing, to the wrong guy, in the wrong place, at the wrong time. He was just flat wrong. I once had a friend that pulled that crap on a regular basis. Now an X friend.

Now a couple questions for you...............What do you think was accomplished by his actions? How will that hissy fit benefit sportsman racers?

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

I think people are now talking about the incident, I think NHRA was embarrassed that a lowly serf stopped their show for a few minutes. Will it lead to them taking some responsibility for ensuring that the sportsman racers have a decent track? We shall see. I think that NHRA being heavy handed has done even more to unite the sportsman racers, to stand up together and say enough is enough. It's just like this country. Some have to go first, and pay the price, before the masses decide to band together.

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

You are always free to respond to diversity like Mike Cotten did at Pomona. Meanwhile, the Epping race remains full in Stock so not sure anybody has made on impression on anybody. The fact that NHRA formally conceded they even made an error is a good sign IMHO.

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

My guess is that NHRA is now so embarrassed that they will spend the $2500.00 on a couple drums of PJ1 (VHT) and a hand sprayer and all will be forgotten.

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Chad

Your last post is: "right on".

It is just like this country & you have to stand up.

Sure, one guy payed the price, but we have to stand up in masses to hopefully
make a difference in our sport.

We do pay Heavily for our Entry Fees and i wish we could start our own Organization.

I Wish For Just 1 National Race, Nobody Enters In Stock & Super Stock.
If Super Comp & Super Gas Want to Help The More The Better.

You figure if 70 entries per catergory x 4= 280 racers x $310 = $86,800.
Plus at least 1 crew member x $80.= $22,400.

That's over $100,000 dollars they wouldn't get.

Let's see what happens then !!!!!

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Chad:
Not missing the point, I am not glossing over it.

YOU have it exactly correct about NHRA attitude.
My comments are based on what was written before I made my first big comment.

99% should be behind Dave regarding the safety of the tracks.

AGAIN...do not dismiss his alleged bad behavior.
That is why he was fined.

We have to systematically organize to get NHRA to change or it will not.

Dan

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

You are correct... !!!

However, I am not going to condone Mr. Barton's behavior.



D

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

1: YES.... I have !!

2: YES he got a $2500 fine

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Here's my final thought on this. Look how many posts are in this thread, the original about him being fined, and the one offering assistance. Now look at the number of views. Here we are a week later still talking about piss poor track conditions, and one racers reaction to it. Would this issue have even been more than a blip on the radar in the "live from" thread if it weren't for David's actions?

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

NO Chad......
I agree with you.
It was necessary for him to bring it up and lash out.

But he crossed the line !
And there are times that you need to cross the line.
An act of courage is doing what you think is right and taking your lumps and moving on.

My question where were the other racers with the same ire supporting Dave on that fateful day?

Dan

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

It's not about what he was attempting to say.
It's all about how he said it!!

And BTW..............if the next one or two national events have no traction issues for 9" tire cars, this will all be swept under the rug.
That would be my humble opinion.

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Hope not.
Dave has a key point the Pros have been complaining about too.
One track will hold the HP the other is slippery.
Which is why lane choice is key to winning and it should not be.

D

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

There you go! ANY track will hook if properly prepped, we had 145 degree plus track temps EVRY DAY AT BYRON, and EVERYBODY HOOKED , NOBODY CRASHED! So what's NHRA's excuse? Because we cared and we had Bill redman Floyd taking care of tthe starting line and I gave him carte blanch with it he was in charge and it flat worked
As far as organizing or forming a union, Jeff Tueton tried that many years ago by forming the SRA all on his onw nickel too I might mention, of which I am proud to say that I was a charter member,(I still have SRA decals on my cars) all he got for his efforts was a lot of bitching and moaning for his efforts both NHRA and IHRA implimented several new positive sportsman policies that were directly the result of Jeff's hard work.
Did we get NHRA's attention back in 2001? HELL YA! but that's another story for another time.;)

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Track prep back in the days......
MB

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

First, let me say nhra should deffinately recind the fine, as they admitted they had a crappy staring line. In years past when we had the Summernationals in the heat of June and July, nhra people would show up on Monday or Tuesday before the race and take over the track, so that the racers could perform to the best of their abbilities and the fans got to see a good show. I was at Englishtown, but not competing. The starting line was a complete joke. I have been racing Stock Eliminator and brackets since 1964, this was the poorest i have ever seen a starting line. I also put some of the blame on Englishtown Raceway Park for letting the track go to the condition it is in. There seems to be very little time or money spent on the track surface compaired to what it used to be.

Second, my reply to Dan. I don't know you, but to compare running a national event to reffing a soccer game is a stretch. Did David Barton go a little too far? Maybe. But it got the attention of a lot of people. Sometime you just have to say whats on your mind at that very instant, and that is what he did. I don't know if you are a racer, but i can tell you this. From AAA/S down to W/SA, the guys and girls who build and race these cars have not only a LOT of money invested in them, but also a lot of blood, sweat, and tears. And to lose a race because of something that is completely out of your control is ludicrise, absurd, and anger inticing.

Thats my nickle's worth. John Bender 1969 E/SA

P.S. Lets see what the starting line is like at Bristol

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

John,
It appears that Dan does not race at nhra National or Divisional races. He has no skin in this game and simply wishes to be a keyboard pontificator.

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Yep.

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Skin in the game...? That was lame Bruce and Ed..!!
That was an attack on me and not the topic !!

D

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

maybe a yellow card would put them in their place......


sorry, couldn't resist

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

LOL...that was funny !!
Good humor !!

FYI...Reffed 3 - U19 Boys games yesterday..
Center first game and AR the next 2...

I am tired..

d

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

OK , I'll bite ......what's a yellow card ? ? ?

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

Find your inner soccer mom.

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Hi Jack,
A yellow card is issued by the referee to a soccer player that has caused an infraction against against another player. If that player does it again, he is issued a red card which in effect ejects him from the game. Kind of like hitting the q'back and ripping his helmet off.
Walt

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

I didn't know either. Don't watch stick & ball stuff. Now I know. :-)

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If you wish to disagree with Mr. Fahey on the merits of his discussion points, do so. The attempt to personally discredit him is uncalled for, disrespectful, and does not advance the discussion. (I have several Wallys. Hopefully my opinion counts.) :rolleyes: Although it is completely irrelevant to the merits of his opinion, Dan was competing in Stock at the Pittsburgh Nitro Jam, just as I was, all on the same weekend as E-town.

Do I completely agree with him? Not under these particular circumstances. As a promoter, I would expect to have a civil discussion with my customers when problems first arise. We have always tried to treat everyone fairly, equally, and with respect. That does not mean that people always agree 100% with decisions, but we will always tell you *why* a decision was made. That being said, if there is a consistent, known problem with no attempt to fix it, there's a bigger issue. I think the biggest thing missing is communication. 1) was it a known problem? 2) did the racer(s) bring up the problem with the promoters? 3) Did the promoters attempt to address the problem? What was said, how it was said , and when it was said -- on both sides -- makes a difference.

Re: NHRA's Response - Summernationals
 

The very LEAST racers should expect at any race is a safe track that has traction for any well set up car. I've raced in division 3 for a bunch of years and for the last 4 or 5 I can't remember spinning one time. Even at Stanton where the rocks are visible through the asphalt, or Bowling Green with track temps well over 140 degrees, and finally for the last year even Columbus which was terrible for a few years. Our starters prepare the track by dragging it and using exclusively VHT (PJ1) and when there are bald spots they are fixed immediately by dusting with gold dust, spraying with VHT and dragging the starting line. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to do this. What you can't do is let someone in the tower override the starter in the interest of staying on schedule. A good and safe track is what we all deserve.