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I would like to make a few statements to the internet cry babies had to say about the ford hp on the the 302 two barrel engines I don't know anything about the gm changes so all my comments are about the fords and mainly in ss/s tirm. I am the person that bugged pat c. and give facts to make a change . based on nhra and there ahfs system .so here we go #1.mr silverman ; yes they did go back to factory ratings but isn't that where all cars are to start off ie cobra jet drag pack copo and than the ahfs system goes to work. and mr wongs truck to. have you seen any 302 2barrell fords in ss/s running to justify and hp changes ??? #2. mr wong ; iknow you are a true racer and surprise you get caught up in this internet b.s. you may be right has far as summers being soft " but wasn't your truck soft" to start with ??? and than data started to come in and hp was change on runs and data ???right !! #3 mr ness ;yes gary run under in stock trim at a national open so did not and still hasn't gone into any real data to make a change in the ahfs system .#4 mr capizzi; it was the nhra and pat c. who did the right thing after listening to FACTS that there was no data to justify hp on these combos problem so where over the years somebody gave all fords in that year range the same hp pulled out of the air with no data to justify change from factory hp #5 mr denbreeden; yesyour car could be a player with the changes and I sure other ford people out there would have thought of going racing and be coming reg. nhra customers but your right without the changes leave it home in the garage #6 mr.stock 726; as far as pat c. he did the right thing with the FACTS got he was given !!! #7 mr almack so what !! 1.999 under then wont the ahfs system go to work on tues ?? besides I don't think you or I are will trying for # 1 at indy . #8 mr wong ; 2.00 under in stock might be a little bit of a hill to climb with a ford but I would like to see you build a ss/s ford 2barrell combo in those year ranges got could 1 second under !!! . I think that covers everybody that had a comment on ford hp . after what happen here everbody should be up set overinternet cry babbies controlling nhra people and polices rather than real data from real race cars not following there own rules ie afhs system and if anybody out there has real data give it nhra but I don't anybody can find data to justify 210 hp in ss/s thanks bill dyer ss/n 85 mustang and yes I can run a second + under I am not bench racing here !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Bill, I am not stating the truck isnt soft or some of my other combos are not good. Gary Summers is great guy and picked a good combination. The issue I have is we have a system that is in place and needs to be used. If we use this new standard of adjusting things back to fix net / gross horsepower adjustments made almost 40 years ago and circumvent the system already in place, we will have to adjust everything. If that be the case then there are some real good combos I will be using with the "horespower correction system".

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Mr. Dyer, I'll try and make this as short and sweet as I can. We have, in effect an AHFS. The AHFS is the rule of law in Stock and SS, like it or not. It is NOT up to Pat, you, me or any other single person to take it upon themselves to right any wrongs that were done 40 odd years ago. It may be a FACT that the 302 Fords were given too much HP and you can build one and ask for a review. The AHFS doesn't consider 40 year old mistakes. Under your reasoning, My 72/307 Chevy is a mistake, the 71-75 2V/350 Chevys are a mistake, my 301 Pontiacs are a mistake ETC.. I could go on all day! The only thing around here that is right is my inline 1V 6 cylinder stuff and IT would be rated 11 HP MORE than some of your wronged 302s.
To you, Pat and anybody else in a position of power in the NHRA, please, PLEASE, before you go doing something off-the-cuff, think about the precedences that you might be setting and the people who you will affect!

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I was just asking a question. So what justifies the 185 rating on post 73 2bbl 318 mopars. If the facts are the same for a ford mopar or Chevy then it should be reduced to the oem 150. Hasn't been hit in 15 years

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Sam that would make you a heavy U/SA. How long would it take you to get horsepower?

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That's my point. It's not fair nor in the best interest of the racers to put these combos back to their oem ratings, as fun as that would be....

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just because its 40 years ago that makes it right ? then look at this go to class guide for 1955 chev 265 cu 2 barrel 162 hp factory hp it has never been changed !!! then why is fords been changed ????? just because its 40 years ago we don't make it right ??? yes your right you could throw all kinds of money at it build a car and hope . heres where we are my friend has the 79 fairmount he build it to run brackets then went to some s/ss races with me and had a good time and got hooked and said I wanrt to do it . right away I said you can not do it with this car because of the hp . long story short I built him a motor that is about 75% of what my motor is that is what fit his budget with the hp at 210 it would run ss/ma we have been running it for couple of months and have beat on it a little and it has run 12.27 on a index of 11.85 in ss/ma last week end we run it at cedar falls nat open in ss/pa which we thought was new hp at 143 it ran 12.27 on a 12.65 index so I ask how much more do throw at it ??? it will never run in ss/ma I don't care how much money you throw at it . so do you go to points races over and over not able to even run the index ???? I know you and I would like to have that guy 1st rd. I know I will just tell him to forget it and go bracket racing

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OK let see as U/SA at 150 hp you have to weigh 3170. Now you have to deal with the 78 Caddy which you really do not have a chance of beating. The Fords are in the same boat as you would be.

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I see your point. My car is a natural ss/oa car at 195hp and couldn't run 12.65 in 40 degrees and a 50 mph tail wind in ss trim

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I can go 13.0s at 3170. That's 1.85 under u/sa index. Where do i sign up

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The Caddy can go 12.80's

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Sounds like a bunch of crap to me! Your friends car would be a perfectly good Stocker @ 162 HP or better yet, a SS/GT car with YOUR combo in it @ 205. that's about a no-brainer.

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Give me a rating of 150 and ill find two tenths lol. The ahfs is supposed to help combos that need it, not help a car 7 tenths under go a second under..

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Who went 07 under other than Gary Summers. The two div six cars with the new hp would be around 9 under.

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Tony, how well prepared are those two D6 cars?

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Tony, what would one of those cars go in the right hands? Are you telling me that a 1973 302 is that much worse than a 60's 273 and to clarify I am not taking away anything from the guys running them on a budget.

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How well they are prepared is not important. Over the last few years I have seen some significant reduction in horsepower that had nothing to do with potential.

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Tony, you've paid your dues and done your time and for that, I will show you the respect that you deserve BUT that there is a not smart statement. You are correct about a couple of HP reductions but they were pretty much single car (or truck) hits not 11 model years and every bodystyle.

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What difference does it make if it's over an 11 year span; assuming the engine didn't change over those years? I'm assuming (but admittedly could be wrong) pretty much every 302 2bbl from 1970 on has the same engine specifications in the blueprint guide.

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Almost every year is different enough to be considered a different combo and some years have a few different combos.

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Uh, Bill,
My post number 9 was a joke. That's why it has " lol " after the joke.

I personnally am looking at the 1978 Granada combo because it looks alot better now.

If Mr. Summers can go 1.6xx under with the older hp ratings, I think the new "139 hp" should work just fine, ;)

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps3eb616bd.jpg

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When is the Classguide going to be changed back? It still shows the horsepowers as of 8/6/13. How can we be sure what the old horsepowers were without NHRAracer.com changing the data back?

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Sure seems like that reconsideration bulletin was a smoke screen...

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After one session:

1 3499 U/S Gary Summers, Franklin KY, '78 Mustang 13.255 14.65 -1.395

The second run, he just ran 13.00, at only 89 mph (-1.64 and change).

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WOW.............!!! 12.74???
Should be in the Q/SA class

Is Allan Macklins a 86 Turbo T'Bird?
WOW ....that is fast...

D

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Yep....Mr. Summers is 1.6xx under....again.

Of course NHRA "gifted" him 23 h.p. ( on Aug 6th) .
Was 162 and now 139 hp.

Good for him.

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Dan:
Yes, I bought Marty Buth's ol' 1986 Turbo Coupe four cylinder car.
Real happy with the purchase too....set all of the Q/SA records that day in May with it in my first NHRA event. :)

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With a little more boost..
and
based on the Maverick ...you will have a 11 second Q Stocker in the making..

OMG....!!

Holy CoPo !!!

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I tried more boost (accidently) , but without an intercooler (which isn't allowed) the extra heat generated negated any gain. It was a wash.

From here I need to focus on suspension mods to gain an extra 5 hundreths or so. Car has stock 1986 rear control arms and springs, stock 1986 quad shocks and stock '86 front struts and springs. Lotsa room for improvement. :)

However, I will say that I don't have many runs with the car, so I still have a lot of experimenting to do ( i.e. shift points, stronger brakes for more stall, lowering the front end, etc. )

Car ran in the 11's a couple of years ago in 45 deg. air in Michigan. (with Marty driving)
LOL...the little 4 that could.

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So what are these facts you speak of???

I would like to have my horsepower reduced to the OEM number based on the fact it's never hit a trigger and nhra high balled it at 195...pre 2005
Every adjustment since then has been a reduction...

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Now I am very intrigued as to when these HP get changed back, if ever?

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Sooner or later AL..NHRA will have to pinch you up to N, O, P....
Especially as you tune for better ET..
Not Stock but good dose of NOS will have you near or in the 10's.

Who owned the Turbo Pinto in the 80's in Comp that drove every one crazy.
Saw him run a Point Meet at Warner Robins in the 80's.

D

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That was probably Buddy Ingersoll. That was one wicked 2000cc engine. He lobbied to run Pro Stock with that car. Which I believe IHRA allowed him to do for a short time.

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Buddy Ingersoll AA/MC

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Headermaster,pls. Contact the zinga when you can.

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Looks like Summers' Mustang II got hit, to 155 now. BUT, only the 78 Mustang II manual trans combo got hit, nothing else.

Looks like alot of #1 qualifiers wearing Blue Ovals for a bit?

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That was the Buick with the twin turbos

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Thanks Dennis. Got his cars confused. Weren't both those cars AA/MC?

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The pinto was not the Buick but he did run the Buick in IHRA pro stock for one or two events.

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OK, I believe the Buick was BB/AT. Been a day or two. Yeah, remember him running IHRA Pro Stock with it. Both it and the Pinto were wicked cars My friends (the Meek Brothers) ran their D/MC Pinto around the same time Ingersol ran his.