Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

X2. Someone had to of said something for them to look.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

I guess if you have a 10,000hp Funny car you don't have to abide by this rule. :rolleyes:

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/...ps08047a44.jpg

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

That about says it all.......

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Carey, Nhra may be cracking down on transmission certified products. I believe there maybe a mandate out there right now to look hard at transmissions and certs. At the atco divisional recently a Super street racer failed tech for transmission sheild cert. Think about how hard it is to check the cert on a super street car, most are full body cars, and it would be very hard to check, but they did and car failed tech. There was also a instance of another 4 cylinder car in comp that had a adapter fail. So maybe they have decided to check real hard, hope they were not picking on you. and remember there are many things that sometimes do not make sense but you have to decide if you want to live by their rules or not.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Leo Taugher did the "double breakout" thing on a heads-up yesterday, but at least he caught it as soon as he sid it, and corrected himself.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

sounds as if NHRA wants Honda so provide pit scooters, ATV's and UTV's and maybe a few generators. :D

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

That's whats crazy though. I did everything they asked me to do. I went and got my can converted from 6.1 to 6.3 and updated the cert. Same with the clutch and flywheel. This all started on Tues and ended on Friday. I never once filled out and handed them a tech card. I never told them I was ready to be tech'd in, nor did they tell me that they were teching me in. It's all really fishy to me.

I'm all about safety, and had EVERY safety item needed to run the ET/MPH that my car runs. I had no problem doing everything they told me I had to do in that 3 day span (and the tech guy literally told me these were the 3 things I needed to do so I could race). I have no problem following rules either, but as posted above, everyone should be held to the same standard if they are going to enforce such a rule, and clearly they aren't.

Also, rules need to evolve a bit. I'm going to be speaking with someone about this, because I feel this particular rule needs to be revised.

Any suggestions from some of you guys that have been through this? Who would be the best person to talk too, etc.??

Thanks for all the support, it's actually quite overwhelming. All the messages, facebook posts and messages, visits by the pits, it's all much appreciated.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

I think folks are all thinking zebras and not horses in your plight Cary.
With Chevrolet on board sponsoring the event, the huge turnout of the big 3 factory cars, and your performance numbers from last years event; there was NO way a Honda was going to sit on the pole this year. So they clipped your wings before you could fly. I have so much respect for all of you guys who continue coming back after being sucker punched time and time again by the politics that have permeated this particular sanctioning body’s policies.

JJ

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

That's taking the conspiracy theories to the extreme in my opinion. After all the #1 Qualifier in Stock wasn't wearing a BowTie.

BTW Carey your S2000 is way cool!

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

With Skillman’s Ford being on of the big 3 manufactures my assertion holds a bit of water. Truth be told Jeff, they led this racer to believe if he followed their protocols he could race. He bent over backwards and did exactly what was required, If not an out and out conspiracy (as you stated being extreme) what then prejudiced the sanctioning body against this racer?

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

It may not be so far-fetched. The jealousy and pettiness of some people never ceases to amaze me. We see some of it even here. The decision to bounce him (because, in part, he drives a Honda) could have been made by an individual or those above him, all in the name of safety. In reality, however, safety and rules-enforcement doesn't appear to be the motivation. Seems more like...pettiness (to me, at least).

Just my .02.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

You should have given them a tech card. They would have to write why they failed you on the tech card. When you fixed those listed items they would have to pass you. You gave them too many chances to pick you apart. It seems to me our cars have passed tech several times at points races, it shouldn't be a problem to pass tech at a national event. Sorry for your bad experience and hope it goes better in the future. Just another dumb Racer.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

The #1 car in Stock was Summers not Skillman. A 35 year old Ford Mustang II qualifying #1 at a Chevy sponsored event. Embarassing enough to the sponsor that it had to be tossed out? It doesn't appear that way.

Carey has indicated that he wishes to take this formally up the NHRA ladder in search of answers, in a logical and factual way. I think that is the right approach, and may give him some closure on the incident and encourage him to continue racing with NHRA. He is definitely owed an explanation and hopefully an apology too. At the least the rules should be updated to keep this from happening again.

Perhaps this was an individual inspector with a grudge that created this mess, or perhaps it even came from a higher ranked official. But the implication that there is a formal agenda to keep any high performing non-Chevys out of a Chevy sponsored race (or Mopar race, etc.) is pretty extreme. And to suggest that the entire sanctioning body is in collusion to stack the odds to make that happen is something that I just don't buy. If you truly think that the entire organization is so deeply corrupt why do you even race?

Just my opinion; yours may be (likely is) different. You're entitled to yours, I'm entitled to mine.

More importantly, I really hope that Carey gets the needed answers. I for one want to enjoy the sight of that S2000 racing in the future.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

I don't think there was a conspiracy at all. The problem was he could not get the bell housing and the mid plate to conform to the rules as it is written. According to what is posted here the max space around the crank hub is 1 inch. He admits that his mid plate is cut to the outside dimension of the flywheel. Not all combinations can be run in specific classes with out major modifications. I think the car is really cool but really belongs in comp eliminator. Not really a super stock car in my opinion. I do wish him luck in getting a resolution to the issue. The bellhousing manufacturer should do the engineering and submit the fix to NHRA for approval.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

carey is trying to race the car in Comp Eliminator now not super carey, you should speak with Browell on the chain of command at NHRA and who you should approach first. Browell has a bonus program in division 3 and alsois a big supporter of comp

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Carey
Looking at the picture you posted of the Funny Car, 2 things of note. There is a different rule for the space between the OD of the crank flange and the ID of the hole in the plate for a FC. FC has a limit of 7" max on the hole size, not the 1" difference. Can't tell what the ID is on the one in the photo. Second. if you look at the block plate/firewall it has a recessed area that the flywheel sits in that I think NHRA will likely tell you will be the solution to your problem. Think that piece has to be made by the same manuf as the shield. Just my thoughts and doesn't change the fact that you got hosed.
Like most, I can appreciate the effort you have put in and hope you stick with it. As an old tech man, I can tell you one of the hardest things was telling someone that just because you passed last week doesn't mean you did this week. Doesn't sound like telling you was all that hard for the official you ran into. Just wondering, if you has turned in a tech card, what would you have done about dates on the shield and clutch?

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

You are probably right. However, I told the tech guys multiple times that I wasn't ready for tech and the one tech guy that actually spoke with me said "no problem". So I wasn't going to hand them my tech card until I was ready. Actually I still have my tech card, stapled to all my paperwork, that is completely blank. Once I made right the 3 things they told me too, being the clutch can, clutch and flywheel spec and certification, I was ready to actually have my car tech'd, as these are the 3 things they said I needed to right so I could race. Which was thursday morning, Q1 day. They still never asked for the tech card, just that they thought about it overnight, and that they found something in the rulebook that my car didn't meet. One of the tech guys, not the head one, did apologize to me, and told me it could of been handled better, but that didn't mean much to me at the time. Looking back, that particular tech guy, at least talked with me, and acknowledged that they didn't handle this properly. That means something to me know. However, the head tech guy, that clearly made this decision, never once said a word to me. Obviously, as the rule is written, my adapter plate didn't meet their rule. Now, I just want to talk with NHRA about why we did the adapter plate the way we did it, and why it'll be extremely difficult and potentially dangerous to make it in the manner that the rulebook is written.


The hole around the crankshaft isn't cut to the outside dimension of the flywheel. Just enough to allow the radius on the back of the flywheel to meet the crankshaft. I would say the over diameter of the hole, if I had to guess, would be about 8" in diameter.

I was entering the car in comp eliminator at this race. We made some changes that would bump us out of Super Stock.

Interesting that funny car has a different ruling on that. So that at least lets me know that they are willing to make revisions to certain rules. My adapter plate does have a recessed area where the flywheel sits. It has too because of where the crank flange is in relation to the block flange. This is a 1/2" adaptor plate, and still has .400" of material where it is recessed for the flywheel. As far as the can, clutch, flywheel, I made that right on wednesday and it was all legal and ready to go.

I'm going to wait to approach NHRA and let the Indy buzz settle down, and for me to calm down even more. I want to approach this without emotion playing any role. And I'm still pretty bitter. :)

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

The hole around the crankshaft isn't cut to the outside dimension of the flywheel. Just enough to allow the radius on the back of the flywheel to meet the crankshaft. I would say the over diameter of the hole, if I had to guess, would be about 8" in diameter.

I was entering the car in comp eliminator at this race. We made some changes that would bump us out of Super Stock.

Carey,
Sorry I misread your description of the hole in the mid plate. I do wish you all of the luck in the world to get this issue resolved and good luck with your car in comp eliminator. I know the feeling when you get bounced for a tech issue. Happened to me at the Gators one year. No Fun. You just have to put it behind you and move on. You will get it!!

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Cary I have an idea for a fairly cheap fix to your problem. Atatch a round plate about 7 inches in diameter and very thin (.030 or so) to the crankshaft hub. This becomes part of the crank. so the flange is now 7 inches. So your 8 inch hole is rule book legal.
The 4 cylinder Chryslers use something like that (but the same size as the crank flange) that ataches to the outside of the flex plate to help prevent harmonics from shaking the flexplate bolts loose.
I know how you feel I was furious that they made a big deal about the louvers in my fiberglass fenders. They allowed me to run that race but sent letters about me to all division tech directors so they would be on the lookout for me.
I took off my fiberglass fenders replaced them with metal fenders that were 8 pounds lighter. And painted the whole nose with a rattle can. Telling me to change them would have been fine but the letters to all division offices was over the top.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Art, my flywheel registers and centers on the outside diameter of the crank flange, not the inside. So I'm not sure that would work. The flywheel is actually machined out to where the face of the crank flange recesses into it for centering.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Cary,

I have a fix that might work, just "grease the palms" of the tech inspectors, after all that's what the manufacturers do to the NHRA.:D

Good Luck,

Zedrone

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Carey had the car entered in Comp (DD/AT) not Super Stock; and the #1 qualifier in Comp was Mike Depalma's 2010 Pontiac GXP in AA/AT. So much for your conspiracy theory.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

her's one of our customers blowing away a 1200HP AWD TURBO NERD CAR, last weekend at a heads up street/grudge race program event. :D




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kRrh...ature=youtu.be

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Was the Mustang fast or can the import guy just not drive?:p Either way I like it!

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Alex I wish someone had videos of my non turbo nerd car (246 hp) blowing away various Cobra Jets. LOL

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

We have a lot of the "rice rocket" "turbo nerd" racers or whatever you want to call them down here in Florida. My take on the situation after watching many, many of them is that #1. They have no idea how to cut a light, nor do they understand why it's important. #2. They hit the rev limiter for a second or two before shifting rather than shifting at assigned RPM points. This video supports my assumptions and is very typical of the average driver. Did you see that Mustang driver mow the tree down! Jim


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Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

1200hp my ***!!

Either way, not really sure the point you are trying to make???

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

I saw that mustang owner deep stage before the other car was even staged. I would of just sat there until he backed up.

No excuse for the driving from the "nerd" car though.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

I would vote the latter based on that video.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

I think that the AWD was maybe 400 hp which is still pretty good for a Suburu but way off the 1200hp maybe in his dream. Boostedf22c has one of the meanest Super Stock out there and I think that he's probably close to 1200hp if I'm not too off, he might enlighten us. Alex great looking Mustang but I have to say that the driver had an advantage with being a better driver and also knowing about deep staging, since his opponent was probably clueless on what just happened.lol Nice video. I would love to see Art Leong playing with all those new drivers driving their BMW and Lexus with his mighty steed. I can remember loving my Turbo GLH that I received for free when my neighbor moved many years ago, for a month I help to part young men from their hard earned money, one youngster bet me his Camaro(1983) but after beating him soundly I couldn't take it away from him but took $200 for him to buy his 305 165 hp Camaro back. Did I mention that we had a complete NOS system that finally blew the engine completly apart. Still have the car in the back of my Shop.lolClaude

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Yes, we were pretty close to that number with our old setup. We made 1098hp on the dyno at 37psi and ran around 40 at the track. So that would put it around 1160hp hypothetically speaking. :)

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

I agree on your horsepower guess. I used to own a Subaru (although that was a Mitsubishi Evolution in the video :)). I made 480whp in it and it went 10.9's. That was driving and shifting the piss out of it though. I remember driving that car to Joilet from Indy, running 10's for the first time, then driving home. Lots of fun.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Nerd CAR WENT 8.80 and was driven like most of them slept and tripple clutch truck shifted it MUSTANG WENT 9.07 @148 on a hole shot

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

hey Art last time I looked your car was A MERICAN, SO NOT A nerd car only imports are considered as nerd cars.
and when did you blow away a cobra anything? JET OR OTHERWISE HEADS UP?I love you and your stuff artie but come on your 13 second /occasional 12 second Neon can't beat a stock new Mustang GT heads up much less a stock eliminator cobra jet of any kind new or old

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Just teasing you Alex But. I was refering to index to index with no breakout. Get there first and win. But I like the huge spot even in a breakout situation. They can not gauge my car. To much difference in mph, added to the fact that when I lift, my car does not settle one bit Other than sound you can't tell if I lift. And theres no way you'll hear my little car over a low 8 second CJ.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Alex, I respect your opinion on most "nerd" cars. I also respect you being "American" only. But lets face it, the ONLY difference between my "nerd" car an yours is the engine and body. EVERYTHING else is made in America.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Carey, I think everyone here has nothing but respect for you and your car. Just a little friendly "keyboard" smack being talked. I know I always make the trip to the bleachers to watch you run.

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

Was that race at US 41? I ask because of all the people standing on or next to the track....normally the case there

Re: Heard in the Stands at the Indy
 

I like any car that's fast.

I just don't like the attitudes and ignorance of some owners. Wether it be foreign or domestic they all have "that guy".

A little friendly rivalry is perfectly fine among car guys with understood respect though.