Ray,

I'm sure NHRA appreciates your suck up.

Wally did a great job, but much of his wealth has been accumulated off of a tax sucking non profit. And you are very, very wrong if you think you are going to come in here and brow beat the 2% of us who would like to know what is going on. It damn well is our business. We pay taxes and have helped push this organization to where it is today.

OK, well there ya go then. Even when the seperation comes and sportsman are at their own races, we won't be the show. The sportsnationals ? Guess we're not the show. I guess you are right. Sportsman racers DO NOT deserve any more money. Round money or anything. We don't deserve even what we have. Thank God I even get to come to an NHRA race. You have opened my eyes.
Geeez, what a load of crap. YOU, are in the 2% minority thinking we don't deserve better.
It's a very few that is perfectly happy with the status quo and posts on here and the NHRA smiles. Yes, divided again.
Jeff Teuton, I feel your pain buddy ,when you previously tried to help us.
And you were right. Divided and conquored.
Mr. Vierheller, it would be decent of you to subdue your .......racers aren't worth a ****.....posts and at least let some of us strive to better our class(es). While you are happy trying to demoralize and demonize us, some here are still trying to improve life for us all. But the nhra appreciates your efforts.

p.s. I've been on espn showing the full semi final, and final runs at the IHRA sportsnationals. I've been on speedvision which showed the whole run on an IHRA final. Perhaps it's just nhra that doesn't show the sportsman.

Mike ( madness & ) Mayhem

And Lee,
I will pre-empt your inevitable post.
I give, you are right. We deserve nothing !!!



Mike ( madness & ) Mayhem

Funny, I usually get good pit spots at IHRA events, and have been on SPEED Channel a couple of times for IHRA finals.

In my opinion, some of the arguments given aren't as relevant due to the non-profit nature of the organization.

But again, moot point for me. When what NHRA offers looks good to me, then I will consider attending some of their events again. I'm quite happy with my racing schedule.


Michael Beard
<u>Staging Light Graphic Design & Printing</u>
Duck Tape/Loctite Racing
H - I - J/CM '80 Volare 360 Magnum

Agreed. Credit where credit is due.

OK. But, though I want purses to increase to better reflect today's economy, NHRA being bought out and a potential increase in purses really are two mutually exclusive items, like another person pointed out. There's no reason why NHRA has to supplement the payout from the $100 million they just got.

At an average NHRA national event, they conservatively take in $100,000 in car & driver entry fees, not including entry fees for the crew that those cars & drivers bring along (I won't even get into the issue of souvenirs and concessions). CONSERVATIVELY, that's another one person per car, or another $60,000. That's a total of $160,000 in at a single event just to cover the sportsman racers. Not including the alcohol cars (I don't really consider them sportsman racers), NHRA only pays out about $60,000. That leaves $100,000, which is a LOT of money. Granted, some of this has to go towards insurance and other operating expenses. But I doubt it costs NHRA $100,000 just to run Comp, S/S, Stk., S/C, S/G, and S/St.

And I've tried to be as conservative with the numbers as I possibly can. Of course, others on here will just accuse me of bitching just for the sake of bitching, and that if I don't like it I should go race someplace else. And I'm not looking for the payout to be great enough so that I can earn a living racing. But, if I get down to 4 cars (out of about 100), I shouldn't be going home thinking to myself, "Well, it only cost me about $1,000 for the weekend once you take into consideration the maintenance costs of the race car."

And if anybody thinks I'm nuts, ask Dan Fletcher what he thinks about losing in the semis...

Agreed. And my comment wasn't meant as a slam towards Stk. or S/S. I wish I still had the stock floor for my Corvette lying around, as I think it would be a ball running S/S, even though I probably couldn't afford it. There's just something really cool about wheels-up, flat-out runs by cars of the muscle car era...

Agreed. I misconstrued your comments thinking you meant that we were deserving of an instant payout from NHRA. My bad.

All that said, I have no problem with NHRA or the track operators making a profit. It's the feeling that I'm being raped that I don't like. The argument of "if you don't like it then go race someplace else" is reasonable though. The problem is that when it comes to this type of racing, we really only have two choices, NHRA and IHRA. Neither is perfect, though IMHO IHRA is the better value at this point in time. That's not just from a payout standpoint, but taking the entire experience into account, from the schedule, to how I'm treated by the management when I'm there, to the facilities themselves. NHRA definitely has better facilities than IHRA, but they offset that advantage by making me feel like I should be kissing their feet for letting me race there.

Like many companies that I conduct business with, I would like to see NHRA improve because I see a lot of untapped potential there. In most cases though, I have more than 2 choices of where I should take my business, and if I don't see an improvement, it's very easy to switch to another vendor. Like any large company though, they generally don't care if they lose my business because it wouldn't have a large impact upon their bottom line. So, it's not until they lose business from LOTS of customers like myself that would they start to take notice. But, with few alternatives, there's plenty of other potential customers waiting in line to take my place in doing business with NHRA.

Let the name calling and hate mail begin!

Jason Oldfield
S/G & S/ST 1838

Now you are still missing the point.

They do owe us more information than they have provided so far. Wally & Co. aren't selling a house. They are selling the most prized assets of a non profit. NHRA owes more than a brief press release to the thousands of members they have been taking money from for years!

Mr Vierheller,
I don't really want to keep this conversation going much longer, but I have a question knawing at me.
These are your statements from another post.
May I paraphrase and sum this up that it is your opinion that you think the nhra treats sportsman racers like crap ?
And if you believe what you posted earlier, I am wondering then, why you are so vehement in your praise for the nhra, and why you are so aggressively trying to dampen some of our efforts for change ? It seems these two opinions are at odds. Just wondering.

'nother question. Since the 100 MIl we all are talking about will be in cash. I assume MOST can be used as the powers see fit. I would think there would be investments, and even banking and interest.
Can anyone calculate what, say 80 Mil would bring in interest per year at the current rates ?
Would this be enough to help with the purses and a few niceties for us ?


Mike ( madness & ) Mayhem

This thread may go beyond the famous "Willie Raymond
-Top Fool" thread of a few years ago as according to this weeks Nat'l Dragster artical on page 6, quote
"Although the closing date cannot be predicted with certainty,we expect the deal to close prior to the end of the year.So there you go boysand girls,you canpull each others hair till the end of the racing season.Wail away.

Ed F.
15 T/SA
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WOW, Bruce was right. You have missed the point in a magnifcent way.
And after all your rhetoric you now say you DO in fact want more round money ? Wow.

All the negative things you posted showing us how bad the nhra treats us ( way more than any other person on this thread by the way ) and then you say you don't approve or dissaprove of these things ? WOW.
My car, my tow money, my membership, my entry fee's and I shouldn't stick my nose into how much I will be paid for rounds ??? WWWOOOWWWYYY
Unbelievable.
And where did I say anything about nhra having to justify thier profits to me ? I never said anything like that. I am only asking that the New NHRA give some back to the MEMBERS ( not customers ) that built them in to what they are today. In the form of increase purses, and some other perks. Now, of which I see that you too want more purse $$$, as quoted in your previous post.

Oh, by the way, my church, my insurance carrier, my bank, and my grocery store are in fact required by law to post yearly reports as to where every red cent went that they spent, and that they took in...........just as is the nhra required to !

Mike ( madness & ) Mayhem

Tom Compton explained during a pre-recorded phone conversation on Dave Despains Wind Tunnel last night where the $100M you are all so concerned with will go.

This is not a quote, but as best as I best as I can remember Compton said since NHRA is a non-profit corp. the money had to be invested by NHRA and the interest would be put back into NHRA Sportsman Racing to keep it going for years to come. Wally's Dream.



Dave Layer

Thanks Dave, pretty much what we figured. Pretty much the only thing they could have done.
Now, just for some thought, here are some calculations for ya.

Lets say nhra throws a big party, and only 80 mil is left to invest.
Lets say they are very poor investors. Lets just say they stick the $$ in a bank, and draw 5% interest compounded only once a year.
At the one year mark, it becomes 84 mil.
At the 10 year mark it's roughly 130 mil.

Now at the minimum, and with poor investing, and at the one year mark, thats 4 million to help run the sportsman. ( interest only remember ).
Remember, this is up and above what we pay, which are stand alone figures as is.
At 100 mil, it's 5 million in the first year, and grows to 163 million in 10 years. By the way, any investor worth anything can easily double this per year.
So I for one am very happy for this new arrangement. Thank you to Wally Parks and the last 40 years of hard working racers.

Now can we talk about the purses ? The upgrades to our enhanced racing experience ? Can we throw in about 4+ million a year, up and above what our fees, dues and etc is, and not be ashamed to ask for a little more realistic pay schedule ?


Mike ( madness & ) Mayhem

Dave,

Invested..hmm wonder what that means? Knowing where the dough will go is interesting, but it is not as important as knowing what Sportsman racing will look like next year and beyond. Did Tom happen to mention anything about the Sportsman format?

If some of you racers want to follow Nat'l events to the so called next level you might wat to get a US passport.Go to Review Journal.com and scroll down.Where it says "Ameteur racers to stay part of Nat'l events".The new furtue owners see the expansion into 3 new markets in 3 years including Canada and MEXICO,our friendly neighbor who provides us with cheap labor.It's only getting better as it goes.


Ed F.
15 T/SA
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WRONG again! I hate to tell you, but Top Fuel, Funny Car, and Pro Stock are the show. We are what you would call the "grass roots".

Ive never seen the thousands of fans actually stay in the stands to watch stock or super stock, they go buy hot dogs and John Force T-Shirts.

More and more racers are acting like people should bow down to them because they are "the show". But we are far from the show, we are just a bunch of guys that show up to have fun... AHEM, we show up to make our millions running stock.

And yes, I will stick to my oildown rule statement. If you take care of your car 9 times out of 10 you should catch the problem before you tear it up. And if you really care you would race more IHRA, which I believe you do.

The main problem here is that everyone thinks that they DESERVE everything, and that they know how to run the show. Here is where the problem lies, you dont run the show. NHRA does.


Lee Norton
I/PS '02 Firebird 231 V6

P.S. - I am an Accounting major at Radford University, I'm pretty sure I know how a 501c works. If you would like to know I can bring my Governmental and Not-for-Profit accounting book for you to look at.

There is no such thing as an "Income Statement" in a Not-for-Profit.

Lee Norton
I/PS '02 Firebird 231 V6

YEAH,MIKEY.....AND BEARD ,TOO!

Go get a copy of NHRAs 501c Financial Statements and show me their Income Statement.....

Lee Norton
I/PS '02 Firebird 231 V6

I'd rather see NHRA take some interest on a deal like that and invest in the Junior Dragster stuff, or contribute it to a charity such as the Jegs Foundation rather than stick it in the round money pot.

NHRA is involved in a lot more programs than the Sportsman Round Money Contribution Fund.... All of which DESERVE the help more than the sportsman racer.


Lee Norton
I/PS '02 Firebird 231 V6

Sorry for the post whoring guys, feeling too lazy to cram it all into one.

Lee Norton
I/PS '02 Firebird 231 V6

[

>>501c Not-For-Profit Organizations do not have a profit. And their financial statements are public knowledge. <<

Isn't this your quote from an earlier post Lee ? First you say their financal statements are public knowledge, now your saying they don't even have financial statements ? Which is it ?
Your statement here that Not_For_Profit Organization 's do not have profit, shows you have yet to get to the 501c class at your school it seems. 501c's are in fact both allowed to make a profit, and in fact are supposed to be run TO make a profit. The difference in a 501c is how the profit can be spent.
Brings me to another point. I believe your sidekick said it's none of our business how the $ will be spent. I believe he said Wally can stick it in his pocket for all he cares. That would actually be illegal. That would get Wally, or anyone in Glendora indicted.
Any profit, including from a sale such as this, can either be invested ( to make more profit ), and if not invested must be used to further the original charter of the 501c. You see, this is NOT Wally's money, or Tom C's or anyone in Glendora's.
Can you see how we ARE entitled to see how the money will be spent now Lee ? Or are you at the back of the class.


Mike ( madness & ) Mayhem



Mike ( madness & ) Mayhem

New editorial on DRO: <u>http://www.dragracingonline.com/analysis/ix_5-questions-1.html</u>

Old DRO stories:
2002 Tax Return: http://www.dragracingonline.com/anal..._10-tax-1.html
2004 Tax Return: http://www.dragracingonline.com/anal...nhratax-1.html
2005 Tax Return http://www.dragracingonline.com/anal..._12-tax-1.html




Michael Beard
<u>Staging Light Graphic Design & Printing</u>
Duck Tape/Loctite Racing
H - I - J/CM '80 Volare 360 Magnum

Don't know how that double post happened, took the duplicate off.
But just so you know Lee and Mr.V,
At the Rockingham National this year, a packed house. Probably 30-40 thousand in the stands, 3 deep on the fence. When they called Stock for second round I had a couple friends in line at the concession stand. They said the lines virtually emptied. As we were paired to run, at least 500 + very respectful spectators were in the back of staging watching all the goings on. At 10:30 a.m. as I pulled in to the water I looked into absolutley FULL stands. Top fuel runs were 2 1/2 hours away yet.
I have seen the same thing at Bristol, and at Houston. Other places not as much.
The thing is, there are many people that love sportsman, even at national events. And obviously I realize that we are not the main attraction at Nationals, but we have to get over this low grade mentality. How can anyone try to promote themselves and better themselves when the mindset is we are nothing ? At Sav. dragway untill it closed we drew 500 to 1000 spectators every Sat. night. To a simple bracket race.
The few like Ray And Lee on here with defeatest attitudes will never help our cause. And it takes only a few to bring down any chance we have for change. ( Jeff Teuton, you were right. )
Lee, you say you DON'T want more round money. Great, thats yor choice. But you are in the minority. I have received several e-mails and at least 3 phone calls in support. ( Why don't you guys POST ! )
Most of us DO want more $$. But the 2 of you that don't have highjacked this thread and can make it seem as though you are the majority with your many protest posts. Which you are not.
There will be PLENTY of money to go around now. The 100 mill can be stretched to infinity with investments. All can benefit...........but we have to ASK.

Mike ( madness & ) Mayhem

As stated before in another topic,,,,,What bothers me ( and I hope the SEC) is that the sale of property of a non profit org to public held company for what I think is too reasonable............I know very little about commercial real estate and tax law...,,,BUT,,,,I would think this sale should be ethically questioned by someone ,,,,somewhere.....

I would think that in the sale of assets of a "non profit org' that an independent appraisal be done of the property and business consideration and then a price set,,,Nhra is going to be left spineless other than the cash it generates from the sale,,,(from what I read)...You mark this down,,,,,,sometime in the, not so distant future,,,Nhra will decide they cant function any longer and will sale the remaining license aggreement,,,,sportsman ,,etc............to this new company for pennies on the dollar , just to clear up debts ,,,,,thus the final transaction from Non profit to profit company completed,,without a dime paid to the IRS

,,,a companys REAL WORTH is what they own,,,,not business they do ,,,but real property,,,such as real estate and cash in banks

without real estate, in time of financial hardships, NHra will not be able to borrow any money down the road if needed......thus,,Nhra is actually a paper company,,,or a junk bond,,IMO

from what I have seen ,,the ones making the decision to sale is also the ones going to be running the new company....and I would bet a dollar to a doughnut,,,with some excellent new perks,,,,(stock,,,paychecks,,whatever)....

Boys,,it flat out reecks of foul stinch,,,,,,,,,,,come on,,,,,,I start a non profit company,,,build it to be worth millions,,,,,and then sell it to some buddies, for a fraction of probably what its worth, and then become president of this new "profit company",,,cashing in on items I was prohibited from touching while it was a "non profit"............

Personally , I could care less about Nhra`s business .....what what I do care about is this tax shelter and the personal gain of certain individuals that so many racers have taken decades to build.........

LNORTON,,,you said you were an accounting major,,,,,is this transaction legal???? ethical????,,,,,can membership stop this sale???? If no one owns a "non profit",,who has the "say so",,,I mean, with new laws that are in effect that does make it illegal for officers to be "stupid" with other peoples money (remember nhra doesnt belong to them),,,,,if this sale evidentually causes the callapse of the Nhra as we know it,,,,do they go to jail??? some serious questions......

This could be one of those carrot and stick deals. The carrot for the Sportsman racers is the supposed funding of our side of the sport for 25 years. Although none of us know what the sport will look like this time next year. That is where the stick comes in.

It's hard to believe that much will improve for the Sportsman racers when you review Tom Compton's record. I think it is fair to say that his enhancements have diminished our over all enjoyment of the sport. In short, he came to NHRA to boost the Pro's and increase the value of the organization. Did he do it? I don't think so. He should have left the Pro Stock Trucks alone and let them run their course instead of blasting them off the program

100 mil sounds like a lot but the HDP folks do get a lot of security when they take over ownership of the tracks. Not enough to cover the whole 100 mil but enough to make the deal work for them. The troubling part for me is - what happens if these guys decide they aren't getting enough bang for their buck or some new regualtion puts the Nitro cars out of business and the HDP folks decide to shut down the operation. I'm sure the HDP folks have had a good risk assessment team look this over, but what happens to the tracks if they do shut down? Shopping malls and townhouses that's what!

This is a very risky deal from a Sportsman racers point of view. This sale represents a donkey that can not be put back in the bottle if it goes south. Yeah maybe NHRA.org will have first right of refusal on the tracks but the money will be tied up in funding the Sportsman and the retirement accounts of all the NHRA executives. To me it looks as though Tom and Co. have done all they can for better or worse and decided to bail and to ride the donkey as far as it will take them; which may not be very far. But it's not that big a deal to them because the 100 mil has helped fund their retirement accounts. Just my two cents worth. And I am entitled to my two cents worth.

Mike and Bruce I agree with both of you. Sportsman racing will never evolve or grow with the naysaying I have heard on this thread. I started this thread to emphasize that we must demand an accurate accounting of the monies that go with this deal! No, we are not shareholders in the NHRA but we are members of what apparently has become, even though being very top heavy, a rather lucrative company. Morally, we are owed more than an after the fact paragraph in an obscure area of an internet web page. This deal rates a multipage article in National Dragster as well as the NHRA web site. Yes Wally and Company have steered the ship for all these years and done a reasonable job, but the $100 million is nothing compaired to the money and sweat the racers have spent with the NHRA in the last 50 years! You want to try and go into the professional sports entertainment buisness by splitting the Pro racers from the Sportsman racers, fine, but now is the time to nurture your "amateur" ranks. From these ranks come your future professional racers. Two things need to happen immediately:

1. A full as possible disclosure of the deal and the predicted path of the monies associated.

2. Arrange a meeting, either face to face or internet, with representitives of the Sportsman ranks to discuss in good faith the future of Sportsman racing and the perceived ramifications of current and future enhancements.

I believe if these two simple objectives were met by the NHRA it would relieve most of the angst that is being felt by the majority of the Sportsman racers at this time.

Jim Wahl
6 Time National record Holder
2239 BF/S
I miss Buster Couch also! 'cause Div.2 will always be "Buster's Rebels"

$10 would be appreciated towards our cause, but wouldnt count on it. Sportsmen have all been the subject of the lack of focus.

In Indy the media gets hyped up at every 500 race (three of them now), but the US Nationals gets 10 seconds, and the Indy points race there are 15 people and the stands and I know 13 of them.. The new investment group has a chance to make a difference.

Sportsmen can grow with simply a clear direction and focus.

Lynn

Sportsman racing will remain a part of national events so long as the benefits from doing so are greater than the costs of doing so. It's that simple.

What's not so simple is what we as racers can do to make sure that we increase the benefits and help control the costs.

On the benefits side we can make sure that our cars are attractive to fans and that we present ourselves with class. That means keeping the language clean when the fans are around and asking them if they have any questions when they come by to check out our cars. Remember that a casual fan may not understand a lot about handicap racing, but they are likely to really appreciate cool cars. And class cars are cool. If we try to sell our cars as hot rods which are also race cars, we'll be ok.

So true Dave, we have basically Show Cars that perform; many hot rod enthusiasts pay to attend Car Shows, mostly in the winter, but rod runs and Power Tours are big as well...this came up during the muffler debate to promote ourselves....some volunteered to come to races a day or so early to show at car dealerships or automotive parts houses to generate interest

We (I) are our worst enemy by not self promoting and thinking outside the box (for the greater good) but rather keyboard complainers

Just thinking out loud: say 3 to 6 S/SS cars, and 2-3 Comp cars contact a local car dealer, or Advance Auto or O'Reilly's, get a radio station to do a live remote, hand out some hero cards, dress well and explain our type of racing...advise track and owner that we want to partner with them to increase awareness and attendence; in each Division ask for a rotation of those who would come a day early...maybe track reserves a few good pits spots as a comp for help in promotion...winter banquets might be good to bring the parties together, sign a "committment" agreement (not a binding contract) and give it a try

One other thing I would like to see, is that a LODRS race feature a class and promote it....say SS at noon, 2 rounds Round Robin, come right back down return road and fire 'em up again...it can't take much time, and our cars are supposed to be capable of that...maybe not COMP, or could it?

Anyway just some thinking to stir up other opinions

Randall Klein

It might be helpful to the dialogue if all concerned were to review some of the facts as disclosed by NHRA to the IRS in its most recent 501c filing, which covers the year 2005. This is something that all non-profits have to do annually in order to maintain their tax-free status with IRS. Non-profits do not distribute dividends (read ?profits?) but must disclose in detail all of their revenue and expenses (essentially an income statement in accountantese) and the value of all of their assets and liabilities (essentially a balance sheet in accountantese). They also must disclose who their officers and directors are, and what their compensation is. That information is all provided in the 501c document, and some interesting portions of it are summarized below. Values are stated in millions and rounded off for convenience. Less significant amounts are left unmentioned. Now the disclaimer: I am no accountant, so this is the interpretation of a layman. Apologies for the formatting.

REVENUE ($m)

Royalties/Concessions 7
Sponsorships/Advertising 40
Spectator Admissions 44
Licenses & Fees 12
Memberships & Assessments 4

Total Revenue 107

EXPENSES ($m)

Officers compensation 2
Other salaries/wages 12
Pension plan contributions 5
Other employee benefits 1
Payroll taxes 1
Office supplies, rents, etc 4
Equipment rental & mainten. 6
Printing & publications 4
Depreciation 2
Prize money, awards 22
TV production 9
Food/bev. Concessions 1
Track operators / sponsor share 9
Advertising 7
Sponsor analysis, advertising 2
Contract labor 2
Professional services 1
Insurance 3
Other* 13

Total expenses 106

*(includes about 25 accounts ranging from utilities to marketing materials)

ASSETS ($m)

Cash 1
Savings & temp investment 8
Accounts receivable 4
Investments (2c corporations) 6
Land, buildings, equipment 53
Depreciation on above (19)
Other assets 3

Total assets 56

LIABILITIES ($m)

Accounts payable 6
Deferred revenue 10
Mortgages, other notes 10

Total liabilities 26

NET ASSETS 30

The foregoing financial data stand alone as ?facts? as asserted by NHRA to the IRS. However, some analysis leads to some interesting conclusions. One is that (assuming 2005 is a typical year) NHRA spends about as much as it takes in during the year -- $100m or so. They pay out prize money that represents about 20% of their annual revenue. If one can conclude that the remainder of their expenses is reasonable or justifiable, the implication is that they are paying out the limit of what they can afford without increasing their revenues somehow. The compensation of their six officers/directors totals $2m which, while a lot of money, represents only 2% of their annual expenses. The expense listing also does not reveal any overt diversion of expenses to ?perks?. (You can view the full 501c report for the gory expense details if you need to be convinced.)

On the face of it, it would appear that the NHRA does a pretty fair job of efficiently directing revenues toward meeting its non-profit objectives, which are stated in the 501c filing as ?.?to educate the general public in automotive safety???.. to establish rules that govern competition ???. To help perpetuate the sport and maintain good organization ????.

Regarding the ?worth? of the organization, that would be the net asset value of $30m plus whatever goodwill NHRA can negotiate from a buyer. Whatever proceeds come from selling any part of the organization (such as the rights to the Powerade series and the aura of ?NHRA?, for example) would accrue to the organization, to be used as the directors see fit to further the mission of the organization. Typically, in an organization that started out as NHRA did, the control of the board of directors remains with the board of directors. That is, any addition to or replacement of board members is decided by the board itself, not the members at large. Perhaps someone else can comment on the authority held by the NHRA board if they have knowledge. If the board is self-perpetuating, then the members have only two choices if they don?t like the direction taken by the board: continue as members, or walk away. In this sense, even though racers have contributed to the success of NHRA for decades, they have no direct stake in the value of the organization and no direct say in how it is run.

As revealing as the financial information is about how NHRA conducts its business, it is a snapshot of the past, not the future. At that, it is unclear how either the revenues or expenses might be attributed to either the pro racers or the sportsmen. It is also unclear how things might change in future when pro revenues go away, but so does their prize money and the operating costs of Powerade series races. My guess is that even NHRA doesn?t have a perfectly clear picture of what ?non-profit NHRA? will look like when the dust settles. However, there seems to be good potential for them to return to their roots and reinterpret their objectives ( ????.. perpetuate the sport ??.?) in favor of class racers and others at the amateur level. I think it would be shortsighted to make the assumption at this point that NHRA intends anything else (and, in particular, that it intends only to enrich a small number of individuals.) I also think this is a poor time to be demanding to be accommodated, rather than asking NHRA how racers can work with the organization to build a future that will indeed ?perpetuate the sport?.

Food for thought.

Thanks for finding that Poverty Bay.
Interesting huh Lee ? The non-existent financial statement right before our eyes, just as you asked.
I hadn't had time to go find it, but I think I've glanced at the 2006 statement. Not sure if I saw an actual statement, but the figures actually looked better for 2006. Less debt. A little more profit.

There is a lot to be read in to this statement. Like OTHER...13 million ? Thats a lot of other.
There is a lot that can be looked at on that statement, but it doesn't really matter.
I believe that most of the overhead goes with the pro's. Advertising, 7 Mil, the massive Powerade series, tons of salary/wages expense there. The 9 Mil in TV production. Probably more than half of salary, wages should go.
I believe the sportsman side is the streamlined side. There will be no more track expenses, they own none. The insurance should go down.
There must be a huge reduction in labor, both blue and white collar without Powerade.
I believe the sportsman side will be on a very sound financial footing.
And I am glad.

Poverty, you might note that in most of my posts requesting some benefits for the people ( racers ) that built the NHRA in to what it is today, I have numerous times said we should work for the MUTUAL benefit of both sides. ( management and racers ) .
I have always said that there should be a partnership for the betterment of both. But I believe at this time of a very good financial windfall for the New NHRA ( make no mistake, this is a financial windfall ), that it is the right time for the NHRA to show appreciation to the people that built this empire...the racers.
We have in the past been sqeezed to death monitarily, and one needs to read no farther than Ray V's earlier post of the treatment we have taken on the chin for years.
IF the numbers can add up for management, ( with 4 to 10 Mil per year in interest alone I think things will work out ) it would be the decent thing to do to restructure some of our racing environment.


Mike ( madness & ) Mayhem

Mike, I know both you and Lee and I think I can see where you're both coming from. Lee, a young Guy, grew up watching his Dad and others doing this and would sell his Momma's Wedding dress just to be reassured that he'll have half a chance to be racing at the type of Events we have today when he's your age (not that you're old). As we get older some of us see things in a different light and that light shines differently depending on our personel finances and goals. Some approch this as a business , others as a picknick with a bunch of noisey cars and old friends. For some it's about the Fast Carshow side of it for others it's about putting together some POS and beating that $5000 paint job in the other lane. We all need a place. Way back when it was the sanction bodies that inticed us to travel to distant places to pursue the big purses, but once the audience was captured (us) the purses didn't keep up with the entry fees and other expences, but we are hooked. So where am I going with this? I don't know BUT Quit you darn bickering, who gives a hoot what Compton or anyone else in Glendora does with the 100 m large, we ain't getting any of it, don't want it if I didn't work for it anyway. Put your heads together and do someting constructive so when this all pans out we can share information and make informed decissions on what actions we can take and what options are available. The path of the last few years hasn't been all that good, can it get better? I sure hope so, Nicole gets her licence next year and wants my racecar. I'd sure enjoy crewing for her.

I would think their property would be worth more than 53 million

In Topeka, I was talking to a full time NHRA employee and he was saying the same thing. The four properties,glendora and the film arhives , he believed would be worth more than the price they paid.

Greg

Why not list some of the rules and regulations surrounding a 501c organization?

Election of board of directors and officers:

Voting rights of members:

Financial expendeture vs. income disclosure to members:

Profits are invested for the betterment of the member's experience in an association:

The definition of an association:

Stock options for members:

What rights and benifits are provided to a dues paying member:

Funny how alot of this stuff in legal terminology has the word member or participant attached.

I guess the bottom line to me is that I don't want any associations money. I want that money spent or invested in a way that will benifit the members of that association.

SS Engine Guy....Nice post! Some may not like it because you dont use your real name!!!

Tim, On paper it is a legal, because they are only selling the "assets" of the company.

Larry, Very true, and I can understand where everyone is coming from. We dont deserve a penny of the money because we didnt do much to earn that penny. Which car are you gonna stick Nicole in? How bout the Mustang? I might even make a venture down the H this year if we have enough arse to be competetive heads up.

Mike, You probably misread my old post. I didn't say the statements didnt exist, what I stated was that an Income Statement does not. When you get down to it the 501c does not generate a "profit", but they can take the revenues and invest them to create more funds for the organization. There is no one individual that will pocket the money from the transaction, but the organization can use it to better itself. And that is exactly what I would like to see, a more solid foundation within NHRA before we start worrying about round money. Round money is nice, but if I wanted to make money I can do that at my local track. Made a decent profit racing in street at Motor Mile 2 years ago when we didnt have a car put together.

So basically all I am saying is that you need to have your facts straight before you start getting into it. And what is so wrong about wanting the rules to be enforced correctly, and the classes more equal before wanting more round money. End the end it is supposed to be fun. If it wasn't fun I would just go fishing instead.

Lee Norton
I/PS '02 Firebird 231 V6

By Fed law, a 501c organization is ruled by a board of directors. The members of the board may be compensated for their work for the organization, but they cannot participate in any "profit sharing", i.e. their compensation is not related to the financial success of the organization. The 501c organizations fall under the general category of "corporation". The two major differences between a 501c and C-corps, sub-S corps or LLCs are (1) no profit and (2) in the original charter the intended purpose of the corp has to be defined which limits the activity of the organization to achieve the defined purpose.

The way that electrical co-ops etc. get by with the distribution of revenues is that their charter is to provide the cheapest form of electrical service to the members they service and to distribute excess operating funds to the members on a per annum basis. The members pay in a service fee and the organization operates on that revenue (plus any it earns from brokering or producing excess product). At the end of the year, the excess funds are redistributed to get back to a no profit status. Since NHRA does not have any statement in its charter to distrubute excess funds back to its membership, such ideas or claims are not founded. Its charter states that any excess funds are to be reinvested in the promotion of drag racing and hot rodding activities. That is exactly what they have stated they will do with the funds of this transaction. You may have opinions about their decisions to do that, but all the conspiracy theories are but evidence that our culture has educated the general public about human behavior from movies and television dramas. This is not a soap opera, guys. Simply ask the questions, follow the choices the board of directors makes and make your opinions known to them.

One area that was not clarified,but that should be considered is that if NHRA is to be the sanctioning organization and will still run the races that NHRA Pro Racing will produce, surely they will be compensated for this service.

Lee, I think you are using a play on words now. I never used the term income statement, I refered to >>financial statement <<. As grown ups and for this conversation I had hoped we all could understand my point was that the NHRA must, by law, provide a financial statement annually.
You mistakenly thought otherwise.

For Lee and for Dwight I am cut and pasting a portion off of the official IRS website on 501c's :

..........No part of the net earnings of the corporation shall inure to the benefit of, or be distributable to its members, trustees, officers, or other private persons, except that the corporation shall be authorized and empowered to pay reasonable compensation for services rendered and to make payments and distributions in furtherance of the purposes set forth in Article Third hereof................

Note the term NET EARNINGS. Without using a play on words again, the term net earnings = profit. Hence....NET

From you last post :
....>>When you get down to it the 501c does not generate a profit, but they can take the revenues and invest them to create more funds for the organization. <<...>>create more funds ?<<..... Is that not profit ? Without using a play on words of course. Also remember that the reason the NHRA , among others are tax exempt, is that they don't have to pay tax on their....>>profits<<. Or, >>net earnings<< whichever you prefer.

Also don't misread the sentence that the earnings cannot be distributed to it's members. It says they can pay reasonable compensation for services rendered............

That is all most of us are asking for. REASONABLE compensation. I don't want a check cut for a portion of the 100 Mil. If anyone had that coming it would be the racers long before me.
REASONABLE compensation is what we hope to gain here. If the NHRA can afford it of course.

And p.s., I am ecstatic that the NHRA is on sound financial footings at this time. I am thrilled of about the 100 Mil deal. I would never ask for more reasonable compensation if it was otherwise. I hope they make millions more, I really do. REASONABLE compensation would be great though.

Mike ( madness & ) Mayhem