Re: G/SA Current Record
 

Gary well said in my humble opinion THEM GUYS ARE ILLEGAL!!
I couldn't run within 2 tenths of them..And Im cheating like a MOFO!!
****!! Chuck drug me down the track at Columbus real ugly.. OUCH!! Sent the motor to the wise man south of NY above DC .Looking for PAYBACK!!

Re: G/SA Current Record
 

Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a JR/S car?

Re: G/SA Current Record
 

Junior Stock. Contested in Div 1 during the era of Top Stock. Sounded like a great idea.

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Cdncarnut see what kind of trouble you have started. My brother is in the garage plumbing a line to the display battery in the trunk of my car. He said he read about it in a pro stock article put out by some guy named Wayne County. He's been mumbling all day about 10:20's in G. James you didn't need to tell us you are cheating you ***** off. We already knew. Dwight JR stock and top Stock was a lot of fun. We have to thank Dave Ley for it. To bad it didn't get more support from NHRA. Barry

Re: G/SA Current Record
 

Joe, We will no longer be competing in the world of G/SA - H/SA.
Gary, Top Stock and Junior Stock was absolutely awesome due to the competitiveness. Just look at the qualifying i posted. None of those cars had more than a quart of oil in them that day!

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Mike.. they were great, I was there watching most of them...

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Mike your right it was the most fun I had in stock in years. To bad they didn't keep it going. The new factory stock class looks fun but you need a 100 grand stocker to be able to run it. By the early ball busting going on it looks like it's going to be a long winter. Barry

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Rich
Now it's on the street and a blast to drive!

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Seems that the current crowd of really fast cars does it not to set records,but to stay ahead of each other. Tony, give me a call this weekend. I haven't been successful in reaching you.

Re: G/SA Current Record
 

Jesse,

Setting an NHRA record is still cool, especially if it's your first time. It doesn't carry the same weight as it once did for a few reasons (in my opinion of course):

1. Back in the day guys with the fastest cars (who could drive them well) won races and stockers were just that, hopped up "stockers." They better represented what people drove on the street, so they had more mass fan appeal. The specialty cars (CJ, DP and COPO) and teams who run them enjoy this attention, but this same doesn't exist for other cars. Stock is now the name of our class, but we race race cars and the appeal is within our circles, not to the masses.
Also, a guy can build a street-legal car that is faster than most of our Stocker, so what is the appeal for kids to build a dedicated race car that they can only use at NHRA races and they may have to take apart?

2. Fear of AHFS

3. With today's connectivity (Internet) everyone knows how fast your cars is, you don't have to tear down, set a record, or wait for a magazine article to see who is fast.

4. Poor promotion of the performance end of Stock/Super Stock. NHRA can do more to brag about these awesome machines we have and they don't reach out to magazines like the one I edit to come cover the action. That is not a bash of NHRA, it is fact. They should be inviting us out to watch the cars and cover the events.
Furthermore, you are only a "somebody" if you win races and let's face it, that's based mainly on bracket-driving ability. (having a fast car is important, but there is no reward for having a fast car). Guys like Jenkins and Sox were great drivers, but they always had fast cars. Heck, WJ made a name for himself driving around people.

That's my rant, here's my solution, which I have offered to NHRA, and that is to simply award points for qualifying and setting records. This rewards those who spend money with the aftermarket, make their cars fast and drive them well.

Top 8 (or 16) qualifiers at each event get points. Most points go to No.1 then a declining scale. Ex. No 1 qualifier gets 16 pts, No 16 gets 1 pt. Also, award 20 points for a national record, and to prevent going overboard with it, limit how many records you can set in a year. I would also love to see less classes with more cars, that would make a big difference, but only if there is a reward for it.

If NHRA wants performance to count, reward us for improving our performance.


Evan

Re: G/SA Current Record
 

Evan, your solution favors the new cars too much; where FS is contested (with current indexes) guess who will lock up all the 'extra' points? And FS runs don't count against AFHS as currently ran so they run under whatever it takes while other cars risk HP to get qualified that high. Until such time as the newer car factors get a bit more 'leveled' via AFHS the upper class records will be dominated by them. With championships being decided by a single point they needed to be determined by the driver, not by how big a check they can write for a new car. Of course it's easy to get 100K+ tied up in a 'older' combination when you factor in R&D but what you've suggested gives too much advantage to the newer cars and the $$$ involved to invest in one of them plus updates along the way.

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Boy, that would have sure shuffled your top ten finishers in Stock and Super Stock this year. Good luck getting that in the books.

Less classes, more heads ups would place an even larger advantage on the new cars. I am not a new car hater, just sayin'.....

Wade

Re: G/SA Current Record
 

IHRA used to award 5pts for a Record, max of 2x per year. That was enough to make all the points chasers set records, go through teardown, etc. Records became deciding factors in some championships, with people even car-hopping, and record points became a thing of the past.

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I have a solution which is gonna sound ignorant to the old school die hards who think having the fastest car in a certain class is the most important thing on the earth . I have heard the whole "There is pride in making your car run the fastest within a certain set of rules" blah blah blah. Eliminate heads up runs in eliminations. Make everyone have a dial in. I have never had it happen but can you imagine taking a week off of work to go to a national event , spending thousands to do it and going two or three rounds driving your ***** off and catching some cat in your class in the fourth rd w a 100,000 car who doesn't even have to look at the tree, he can just watch you leave and run you down before the 330 mark. Now I ask is this gonna make you say damn I gotta get in the garage and find some hp that ain't gonna be enough to make up the three or four tents the guy in the 100,000 car has on you or are you gonna say f it and go bracket racing where the field is a bit more level ? Let guys set records in time trials and tear them down or don't. It's just gonna be copos dps mustangs and the glasbrenners and I know that heads up finals are rare but doing it this way would almost always ensure that everyone has a fair shot and you will win or lose based on your driving that day not how much money you have.

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A positive side effect of a change like that would be car counts going up because there are a lot of small time guys that don't go to Nast because of fast cars tear downs and the other assorted bs that nhra throws at the sportsman racer

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Why not just give everybody a trophy too?

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What does nhra offer someone for setting a record? you get a horse power hit and bragging rights?I'll take the trophy thanks

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Just because somebody spanks you in a heads up doesn't mean they have a $100.000.00 car. Could be they know more and work harder. Sounds like et brackets are more your speed.

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I only have a bracket car ed. That said the number of heads up races in eliminations that are 11.44 to 11.46 are uncommon and that's not a theory read the internet. They are usually 10.55 to a 10.79 and the 10.79 guy usually cuts a .005 and the other guy is .123 . Everything besides the pros and comp is a bracket race anyway so why should with an under factored car get a gift rd? What kind of car you got ed?

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I have an old '96 Pontiac Trans Am. SS/JA. It ain 't fancy. My heads ups have all been a couple hundredths. Last two have had MOV of 6" and 12".

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Have you run one of these guys I am referring to or have they not invaded j yet? How do you even know what those guys can run w so many 1000 ft qualifying runs?

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All I can do it try to help them get some hp. Best to try to avoid them on the ladder.

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I'm with you Ed, take the heads ups out, I'm out. AND, I have never had a heads up in elims....

If you don't want to work on your car, don't.....

Those of us that want to don't need you changing the rules for us, or for that matter, because of us.

Wade

Re: G/SA Current Record
 

I hear you ed. But what I am saying is it is hard enough to make it to the fourth rd of a race w all he bs nhra throws at y'all from parking in mudbogs tear downs exorbitant entry and membership fees drug tests virtually no coverage on TV and so on and then you get mr. Drag Pak outrunning you by three tents w an out the box car running on 60 percent. That has to suck.

Re: G/SA Current Record
 

Many stock/super stock racers never had to deal with the "new" cars outside of qualifying and don't have any outrage. However a large group did, particularly mid and upper classed stock elim guys. Some of these guys went out and bought the 100k race cars to deal with the problem. Other guys just kept plugging away hoping to avoid these cars in eliminations. Other guys switched classes or stopped racing. Maybe it was a necessary change to slowly get people to start dumping the old cars and racing new stuff. It's NHRA's game, not ours. If you don't like heads-up runs, teardowns, etc but want to keep running nationals, I'd venture that Super Street would make a nice class for you.

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Treekiller Maybe you haven't paid attention to the NHRA classes but they have already done that. It's called Super Street. If you don't want to race heads up and just bracket race I would suggest you race that class. Heads up races are what separate us from the Super classes. It's just that simple. Barry

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I like working on my car during the week not at the race track. I personally won't spend the money and time it takes to go to a nat or div race. You have to win to barely break even, r/u you spend. You could go to 5 or 6 high dollar bracket races. I need my car to occasionally pay for itself plus if you wanna talk about being treated like red headed stepchildren an example is the sportsnationals in belle rose. They won't allow an open trailer in the front half of the property and they make s/st park so far in the back you can't pick up the pa on the radio

Re: G/SA Current Record
 

The things you call bs is exactly what sets class racing apart from Bracket racing. Take away the heads up and teardown and you might just as well call it bracket 1. It is not for everyone.
My car may not get out much but take away heads up and it would never come back out as a class car. And this from a guy that runs a well populated class with a car that will get smoked in the majority of heads up. So it would be to my advantage to get rid of them. I have nothing against bracket racing did a lot of it and probably will again some day.

You have said you don't have a class car so why are you here suggesting we change the rules in a class you don't run.

I have yet to see a class racer in the bracket form telling them they need to change the rules.

Re: G/SA Current Record
 

Evan You know me I'm a die hard performance kind of guy. I love the idea of awarding points for the top qualifiers. But I have to agree with Mr. Carter that NHRA needs to have the AHFS count for all runs if points are awarded that way. Any races where they are running FS they should be in their own category already. Not one class that appears on a qualifying list should be exempt from the rules the rest of us have to follow!!!! Barry

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I would also certainly pull the plug if they take away heads ups. Lots of SS/JA cars, greater chance of heads ups than many other classes. I like it. If I draw a new car, all I can do is all the damage to their average I can. Unless I go red, they will have to go over a second under.

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Why do people feel NHRA is "out to get them" or are trying to push racers out just because it allows new cars to compete? Do you have a TV with rabbit ears, or a carb on your street car (okay, don't answer that), or any old technology for daily life? Do you have a smart phone? I'll tell you why, because the rules don't suit them, that's why and people feel the NHRA should exist for their own personal purpose.

It's called evolution people. There isn't one other class in NHRA where you can be competitive with old equipment. Okay, so one guy wins here and there with no throttle stop in Super Street, but you don't see cars from the '80s and '90s winning in the .90 classes. Why should it be a "right" to be competitive with an old race car when there is new, better technology available? Should NHRA ignore the new cars? Well then you'd have a nostalgia series, at least until everyone got old and quit racing, then you'd have nothing.

Racers get out of the sport for many reasons and I'm sure some decided they didn't want to compete against new cars, but to make a blanket statement that a mass of racers were pushed out is just not factual. And, for all who've quit, there are many new racers.

Please keep in mind that I love muscle cars from the 60s and 70s and I would love to see them continue on. I also own a 20-year old Stocker and I know it's day in the sun has passed. It's competitive, but who cares about that? It's my choice to update or be content racing a car that is outdated. Everyone else has the same choice.

Re: G/SA Current Record
 

Treekiller I respect the way you want to race. Stock and Super Stock is not for everyone. Hell drag racing is for the insane only. But anyone who is racing stock for the money with the exception of a few needs to seek help. I have the disease and I know there is no cure but I have faced the fact years ago that I would rather spend my money on myself. Then let the bank hold it for me until I die. I'm not going to be the first one on my death bed that says I wish I had more money in the bank. Barry

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Barry, I have it too. There is a cure, however. It's called bankruptcy. LOL

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Evan I think it's great that the new cars are out there. If they weren't we would face sure death in our class. I would just like to see them have to follow the same rules as the older cars as far as AHFS. As much of a Chevy guy as I have been all these years I have given a lot of thought about getting a new stang. I think Ford has done a great job with the car and all their support. There is no doubt with half my brain tied behind my back I could make one of those cars run faster than that Bill Hawk guy!! LOL

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Ed that's not a cure. Once an addict always an addict. You have only been side tracked because of the lack of funds to support your addiction. If someone was to give your 500,000 dollars today how long would it be before you would be main lining again. BP

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I'm neither cured or bankrupt. LOL Just old and tired. If nobody buys it, I'll be back out next year.

Re: G/SA Current Record
 

OK People,.. lets get back to what this tread is all about.. Me or my brother plan on setting the G/SA record in the 10.6es Lets see who can or wants to go faster.. Step up if you can... And buy the way, take away heads up racing and I will **** on your grave.

Re: G/SA Current Record
 

To get this back on track, the G/SA record... I believe that Barry Parker will set the G/SA record in the spring at Atco. Many other will be go fast but he will be the record holder at the end of the day.

Barry send me the spec's on the new pan so i can duplicate it.

P.S. I will supervise tear down for you (what would you like to eat and drink during teardown?)

P.P.S. a little late, Barry brought us back to reality.

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My take on it is I really can't afford a late model efi set-up, but I can continue to enjoy the '67 Camaro. 20 years from now I wonder what the value of a '67 Camaro will be vs say a 2000 Camaro...my heart still hurts when I think of the '70 AAR Cuda I sold in 1977 for $1800. :o

Re: G/SA Current Record
 

Those 10.60s will be nice until you piss off one of the newer cars and they run one all out 10.20s. Factor everyone correctly so that a guy with an older setup has a chance. just two cents from someone who believes you should have to drive both ends of the track to win a race