Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Correct. Those air cleaners also came on the COPO Chevelle's too and my point of the pic is to verify that the cowl hoods didn't come on a 67 or 68 car but there are a lot of them showing up at the races with them on. I believe that's NHRA's point for enforcing this rule.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Nope, 1971 Challengers also as noted in the 1971 Dodge Dealer Data Book.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Thanks for the correction Dave. my bad

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

How many cowl hoods for a Camaro has anyone seen with all the flapper/grille hardware in place as is theoretically required? :p

HOOD
Full stock hood including latches, hinges, springs, brackets, and
braces as originally produced must be retained. Hood openings
and/or hood scoops other than original equipment prohibited.
OEM hood openings must retain all flappers, grilles, hardware,
etc. as originally produced.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

I had a cowl hood on my '69 Camaro when I ran SS/JA and was flagged for not having the flapper or the solenoid.

I took an old idle stop solenoid and some metal and stuck it up in there to satisfy Greg X...so I could race.....

I bought the hood new from GM.....cost about $200 at the time...

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Try to race in Division 3 without it. Travis Miller will send you packing in a heart beat, so will RedMan. In fact, Travis posted here to warn people not to show up without it.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

they have been checking for the flapper and assorted hardware since 1993 in division 1, believe me i know

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

As mentioned on here before, NHRA allowed the cowl hood on all 69 Camaros for many years. Then someone filed a written protest at a race about the cowl hood on Dan Fletcher's Super Stock Camaro with the 350/255 engine. Due to the written protest being filed, they had no choice but to research the issue. The research they did found the 350/255 came only with a flat hood.

On a side note, I seriously doubt their research included stories from someones brother-in-law who had a neighbor that went to school with a cousin of a friend who thought he might have seen a cowl hood on a new 69 Camaro in a dealership that closed the following year.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Now that there's funny!

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

This is getting to be a real laugher. Did the NHRA ever enforce the spoiler option on 1967 camaros as there was no option ....D80... in 1967.
I was going through a few pictures on the photo gallery and noticed a very nice 1967 Camaro in B/S with the front and rear spoilers and the pictures were posted in 2009. Is th
is legal in the year of the photo or just wasnt addressed at that time. ...... And they are concerned about the solenoid on the flapper valve on a cowl hood.
I dont want to cause no problems...... if you want to look at the car you can pm me.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

I can tell you that back in the early 70's the spoilers were looked at on my 69 Z-28. Show up with out the rear and you didn't race. Take the front off and you didn't race. Both had to be on the car because it (Z-28) was a "package". If they were looking at "packages" back then they should be today.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Well the car I was looking at was a 1967 Camaro 396/375 SS car running B/S with front and rear spoilers that were not even available on a 67 car at all. I just dont understand how they make a big deal out of something insignificant and completely overlook something right in their face.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

NHRA and their Tech people have always been somewhat arbitrary on enforcing some rules.

Around 1978-1979 my buddy and co-worker was running C/SM with his '69 Camaro. WCS race or maybe the SummerNat's It had a front spoiler but not the rear. He was told it had to have both or none by a guy we knew as Joe Tech. He was told by another Tech man at the top end after a run it was no problem....

Next time he went up to make a run....Joe Tech told him again to get the front spoiler off the car....Pretty ridiculous but not unusual for that guy....

I ran my '69 Camaro in SS/JA with the cowl hood....and a rear spoiler but no front spoiler and it was a 350/255......Just about every '69 out there had the cowl hood on it back then(1980-1982)......No one ever said a word to me about the hood or the rear spoiler and lack of one in front....

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

I worked with Joe D......I mean Joe Tech for a couple of years when he was with IHRA and found him to be a complete a** !

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Ok. Why not get a petition together among the Stock and Super Stockers and bring it to NHRA? There is strength in numbers. Before you know it the season will be over. The cost of these classes is out of sight, why shouldn't anyone have a say? The rules have been changed allowing after market cylinder heads and carburetors for some engines because of lack of original equipment availability. Why the big deal over hoods and spoilers?? Come on!!

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Billy, just a question:

Since you appear to now a lot about these combinations, as regards to the Ford 390 cars, is the reason why they are fast now is the allowance of the Police Interceptor intake on the 1967 Mustangs?

If so, have you spoken to NHRA about this and have you also brought up with NHRA the issue about the Chevy 327 intake use on the 283 engines and the use of the aluminum intake and Holley carb on the 1970 - 1971 Cleveland engines?

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

As usual, it isnt going to be NHRA nitpicking details such as spoilers as much as your fellow racers...likely someone with a grudge or just looking to monkee wrench a competitor. If something is clearly illegal and a competitor demands attention NHRA has no other recourse but to address it. Btw, the spoiler was not mandatory on Z-cars until late production models...early models had the option and it might have been the narrower "68 spoiler if installed.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

SSDiv6, you have a P.M.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Its not just the aluminum Police intake on the 67 Mustang. I checked the specs and found that the larger 428 Cobra Jet Holley is allowed. Thats quite a jump from the original 600 CFM.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Just remember....."Cheaters never prosper!"

RJ

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

You know, the hood ruling might be tolerable, and reasonably well accepted, if it were not for the fact that there a lot more things that are a lot more bogus then a cowl hood on a lower HP Camaro is, and they make a lot more difference, too.

It's sort of like the guy with a 2x4 in his eye telling the other guy that he has a piece of saw dust in his.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

HaHa....you are right about Joe "tech". But at least he was an a** to everyone. Didn't matter who your sponsor was or what your reputation was in racing. Liked to look for "drivers aids" too. Saw him find a couple. Too bad he wasn't allowed to make it public.
Back to the topic: I remember when you better have the right emblem on the glove box for the package you were claiming or you weren't racing. Maybe that is being too picky but class racing back 30 years ago wasn't for everybody. Infractions considered by tech to be "performance enhancing" bought you a year vacation. A cowl hood or a front spoiler on the wrong combination would have been considered "performance enhancing".

Alan, dead on. Lots more bogus stuff out there than hoods.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

They have dumbed it WAY down. Between the bogus parts and way too soft indexes. Any dummy can be "fast" now.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Well I got in this late, but reading about the fact that now that hood on my camaro produces the same horsepower as the illegal fiberglass super stock hood on my Duster that no one will allow me to compete in super stock with. All that performance from hood is really super.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

As many of you might know I worked for Mr Norm's Grand Spaulding DODGE AS A LINE MECHANIC IN THE EARLY 70'S Arguably the largest high performance Dodge dealer ever, I probably prepped more new Challengers then most of you have seen, the ONLY car the fiberglass hood came on in 1970 was the 340six pack T/A! Anything else with ram air got a shaker with all due respect to mr Hakim I don't think that he was even legally driving yet in 1970. :rolleyes:
FYI:
We had a 440-6-pack automatic Challenger house race car which replaced our 68 440 "M" code Dart which got sold driven mostly by our nervous manager Joe Nagle and occasionally me we actually tried a shaker to glass hood comparison test at US. 30 drag strip for kicks because people were stealing the T/A hoods off the lot the shaker was quicker and faster.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

This thread has become my source of humor recently. I just lost a friend to cancer yesterday and another friend has, probably, just days to live. It is amazing what is being accepted in STOCK these days. I am not sure where the real problem lies, but there is definitely no easy solution to it. Whether it is NHRA, as a whole, or the various tech crews we will never see it fixed. At least in our lifetime, talking about all of us over 60. I am not blaming the various tech crews, just stating that I understand they are not all on the same page. I have heard stories that a car will pass tech at 1 track and then be told of wrong items at another - just sayin'. Can you imagine if ALL the cars in stock eliminator had to pass tech under the eye of the most critical, and efficient tech inspector out there?? With all this said, I hope that stock eliminator continues to be fun for those that participate for many years to come.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

it over at the time and my long term memory is still very goodhttp://www.bettecets.com/4.jpg

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Maybe I wasn't driving but the 1971 Dodge Dealer Data Book is strong evidence showing the fiberglass hood option on non-T/A Challengers.

Therefore, it could have been ordered by a customer.

How do you argue that...?

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

my eyes and my really good memory
NEXT TIME YOU RUN INTO Norm or Lennie Krause at one of those shows you ex mopar guys seen to do ask them Norm will tell you that they would have ordered hundreds of them as it was the T/A's were almost sale proof, because they were so slow and cost too much for whayt you got

of all places GSD would have been the one to order cars with those hoods right up the street wad grand central Chrysler Plymouth which delivered at least half a dozen SS 68 HEMI CUDAS same deal only 70AAR CUDAS had the glass hoods no hemis or six pack RB wedges
What next?Are you going to find a Chrysler special order sheet that shows you could special order a aluminum intake manifold on a 70 or 71 440 six pack? :rolleyes:

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Look, all I'm stating is the hood was an option on the R/T Challengers. I know of two R/Ts that had the glass hoods from the plant as documented by the data plate and broadcast sheet.

I'm not implying 100's of Challenger came rolling off the Dodge Main assembly line with the glass hood.

I also know there was an issue with the hood supplier in Windsor, Ontario when the '71 T/A Challenger was cancelled in late '70 (none were built obviously). The supplier still had some inventory levels for service after Mopar cancelled their PO.

Remember, marketing materials get printed months before the introduction of the new model year and are not always accurate at the time of printing (the '72 Plymouth Dealer Data shows the 440 6BBL option for Road Runner).

And, I have the "Get Out of Jail letter" from Tom Hoover and Dick Maxwell to NHRA from May of 1970 stating the glass hood was an available option.

So, you may have worked for Mr. Norms and that's great but I've lived in Detroit my whole life and have been imbedded within the Chrysler community. I've interviewed everyone from the guys on the line who built these cars to Tom Hoover who ran the Chrysler Race program back in the day.

And...I spent 10 years at Chrysler researching these cars in the archives.

Next...

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

David..to my knowledge you are correct! There was also a shortage of shakers for challengers making the glass hood an available option.....

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

That's right.

Also, the shortage was made worse as HEMI 'Cudas came standard with the Shaker unlike the Challenger R/T in which it was optional.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

bogus
AND...Bill Hawk has a letter from Carrol Shelby stating they built single 4 barrel 67 GT-500's with solid lifter cams 850 Corvette Holley carbs and 428 Cobra jet cylinder heads all of which is 100% bogus so where does that put your dealer data book?

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

It puts the data book as solid evidence the hood was an available option on non T/A Challengers.

The Shelby letter you speak of was crafted around 10-15 years ago by a man whose memory was probably a bit skewed.

The Dodge dealer data book was printed in 1970-71 and distributed to hundreds of Dodge stores.

Also, pick up a 1970-71 Mopar Service Parts catalog and go to the fuel section. There, you will see the 340/440/HEMI air cleaner baseplate part numbers listed and in the footnotes, it calls out "w/ option code N94-Fiberglass hood."

Your claims of the hood being "bogus" is very weak and without merit. .
The glass hood was listed as an available option on Challenger models with 340/383/440-4V, 440 Six Pack and 426 HEMI.

Therefore, NHRA accepted it and has allowed the hood since the early 1970s. (There are shots SS/D - SS/DA HEMI Challengers from back in '71 with the glass hood and yes, there are racers also running Shakers).

Now, how many non T/A Challengers actually had the glass installed at the factory, probably less than three units.

If it's listed as a factory option in dealer marketing materials that were printed when the car was new, that's pretty compelling evidence that even an intelligent man such as yourself would grasp.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Originally Posted by Hemi Moose View Post
1969 440 six pack motors used the standard 3.75 stroke 440 crank & rods with the stock 440 harmonic balancer and used an aluminum six pack intake cast by edelbrock.

1970 440 six pack motors used the standard 3.75 stroke 440 crank & beefier rods with a special harmonic balancer w/extra weight and a cast iron six pack intake made by Chrysler.
Some early 1970 motors used the aluminum intake. Chrysler had leftovers and used them up.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

David i also have a dog in this hunt.my 1969 427 corvette for years was allowed the fresh air hood then one day this so called know it all came up with some so called papers that it was not legal on all big block corvettes.so how was it allowed for so many years with the likes of farmer desmuke and marty barret and so on that they allowed it.it should have been left alone and should be put back on the camaro and vette.and David is wright on the 70-71 Hemi challinger it was in Mopar parts book.i worked for southland dodge in 69-70 and James and Jerry Caro are my close friends and James carried a copy of that parts page with him.but did any of the Hemi challengers come from the factory with them NO!!! so i am looking for and old chevy parts book with the fresh air hood in it. they must have had some parts book with them in it or Farmer would not have allowed it for all those years.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Sammy, you're talking about the L/88 hood correct?

If that's the case, it might be a hard sell to reinstate for the L36 427 390 HP 4BBL combo.

We can agree the L/88 hood was never on the 1968-69 Corvette 427 3X2 engines.

BTW, how much change did you notice between the fresh air and non-fresh air hood or was simply running more carb spacers/gaskets under the manifold that was the advantage?

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

David no change in ET just had a jet change.if anything it was faster.just carb to hood clearance.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Ok, one more time about the single 4 428 1967 Shelby. The car has been in the guide for over 30 years, but since Billy built it, its all of a sudden bogus. Carroll Shelby HIMSELF filled out the NHRA spec sheet, that was sent to him by the NHRA to get the specs. Yes Billy has a copy of that sheet and a few letters that were sent back and forth from NHRA to Mr Shelby. This way, he had it in writing what was allowed so he would be safe in all divisions. (some divisions dont have all the information that others have). If the car was never built then why did Carroll Shelby sit in it, go over it with a fine tooth combe, drive it around the pits and SIGN THE DASH? That itself speaks volumes. If anyone would like more TRUTHFUL information on this subject feel free to message me. Its been beat to death on here before and it doesnt really need to be brought up again.

Re: 1969 camaro hood
 

Well said