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Please show me a post on this thread that was classless, pro Jr.'s or against. Most I have read here were pretty well thought out and everyone has been civil. Just because you don't happen top agree with some ones remarks sure doesn't make them classless. I seriously doubt you are any "classier" that anyone on the forum. Jim

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You did respond to this thread. Your "classier" response should be reconsidered. Unless you have walked in her shoes you, in all your wisdom, are stating your opinion on why you "don't condone" someone else's drag racing experience...(as you believe it to be) ! How do you discerne the $$$$ vs talent? I haven't noticed any money in the car with her. Did she have it in her jr dragster? "really really wanna" ..."classier"...seriously?
Doug Jonak

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you misunderstood I choose never ever to complain about the time it takes someone runs or ever complain about another class or the folks in it there are not good folks in all classes but there are good folks too and Jim I agree with your statement 5 years old is young tooo young and a little silly and should be reconsidered by NHRA andI could never imagine racing a car at 5 I was barely ready at 11.

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I believe it would be hard to hold them at stand alone events because the majority of them are the children of racers. With an already busy schedule of events I think you would see a major decline in the Jr program if you put them stand alone because most of these kids are getting this chance because their parent is already there racing the divisional in the first place. I do agree 5 is a little young but my 3 and half year old daughter can drive my golf cart around yard like there's no tomorrow.

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Please read my post concerning this issue and a possible solution. The racer's kids who run J/D seem to run pretty tight routine. It's the wealthy wall street mommies and daddies trying to outspend the neighbor down the street, doing this as a passing fad that needs to be filtered out.

Everyone wants to "take in the moment" with their kids. But there are serious racers at LODRS event with serious equipment where these JD racers already need to learn respect, or there won't be anymore REAL race cars at these events. 5 yr olds will only make it worse.

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bandimere does it....

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Hagerstown runs their junior program on Sunday's prior to their regular bracket racing program. The juniors "own" the track for a couple of hours for time trials and then right into eliminations. Once eliminations are done the adult cars start their program. This alleviates the potential for car vs junior accidents, etc.

FWIW

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Our juniors start time trials at 12, and big cars start at 4. No mishaps, yet, as the last few rounds do overlap.
Safety is the most important thing and it comes down to communication.
We are even investing in additional paving to get the juniors off the return road when the last rounds overlap.

Is 5 too young? It prob is.
I have 3 kids, ages 13,15 and 17...
I didn't start my 3 kids in juniors until they were 8, 10 and 12 yrs old. Second pass by my 8 year old was full throttle and we never looked back.
My oldest is now running Summit high school class and has been to 2 ET Finals already.

As far as showing who has more money....have you looked around at the toters and stackers at a divisional lately?
I remember when a dually and a Chaparral gooseneck trailer was the big deal.

We have junior parents with no big cars bringing stackers to the local, weekly races. Am I jealous? Nope.

I appreciate that they have invested in the sport.

Clark

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I was also going to mention Mason Dixon's program. It works well and keeps the Jr.'s away from the full size cars. It would be nice to see other tracks do it this way.

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It's not cost-effective for the parents who race their own car.it's cost 10 buck's to drag that jr to track and race it.and what is the track going to do,open the gates for 16 jr cars which pay 10 dollar for entry fee.

and for the those supposedly bad,unruly kids that feel they can do no wrong, most of them don't have car to race so they have nothing better to do and will be there anyway.

also when I was 6 or 7 my father handed me .22 and we went hunting for rabbits hours at a time.I knew not to shoot my bother with it, like my son knows not to drive down the return road flat out because I told him not too.

these cars are here to stay,so get used to him.

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Thank you this is what I was saying, the vast majority of the ones at a division race are there because their parent or parents are already there racing. Yeah some of these kids don't have a clue but some of the racers don't either.

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Would any of you give a loaded gun to a five year old?????????????????

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Apparently dartman would! "here ya go son, don't shoot yer brother! Now go out and kill somthin". Holy crap! Really? Yeah, what could go wrong? Jim

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"also when I was 6 or 7 my father handed me .22 and we (we as my father,bother and me) went hunting for rabbits hours at a time.I knew not to shoot my bother with it, like my son knows not to drive down the return road flat out because I told him not too"


No I would not, because the laws have change in the last 50 years and I lived in the woods then.So nobody ever went hunting with there father.I didn't say we went alone dumb ***, Just like I would be there when my kid would make a pass.We don't pump our kid off that the track and go to the bar.

I would give a jr dragster to my son at the age 5 that ran 13.90 in the 1/8 and be there to help him.

I bought his when he was 6, but he never drove it on-till he was nine because he show no interest in it till when.


btw Seven states — Alabama, Arkansas, Indiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Vermont and Washington — set no minimum age for solo hunting.

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Jr's should be run on Tuesdays and Wed. in the middle of the day !

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Damn Jim I wish I knew how you felt about JR racers and their parents before I paid my dues for the SSSSA. I know your point is about the 5 year olds but your comments lead me to believe you plain old hate JR's. All these statements about "REAL" race cars and JR's are obviously not real race cars. "REAL" like a 13-14 second stock eliminator car?? As the President of a racing organization I would think you would be more open minded. The SSSSA has 2 new racers and another one soon to follow who came straight out of JR's. Where are your other new members coming from? How many new racers are coming from other venues? I have only attended two of your races but I didn't see ANY racers under the age of 40 or so. I would think you would want to attract as much "young blood" as possible. Knowing how much you dislike JR's sure wont help get these kids interested in the SSSSA. Here are answers to some of the points made here.

If you have problems with JR's driving on the return road please see track management. Right from the rulebook, these cars are to be shutoff at the exit gate and towed everywhere! Many tracks allow the kids to drive back------->not good and not legal.

5 is YOUNG but you don't have to start em then! Many 8+ year olds aren't ready BUT some 5-7 year olds are. Parents, peers, and track management should all help with this determination. Many 5 year olds are flat out impressive in go-karts, moto cross, and YES circle track. Jim circle track does have a division, its run at many Nascar sanctioned tracks, called Bandelaros. Basically a go-kart with a fiberglass body. They even have many big events at Nascar home tracks like Charlotte Motor Speedway (short track oval on the front stretch/pit road). They run em at Orlando Jim.

You mentioned "problem" JR racers or parents......you aren't aware of any "problem" racers in big cars (or as you like to call em, "REAL")?????

Your buddy broke a spindle running over a JR starter, thank God it wasn't a kid!

I'm not aware of how Div 7 does it but the LODRS was mentioned. As far as I am aware NONE of the Eastern divisions have EVER run JR's as part of the LODRS program.

IHRA does run JR's in many divisions and that is a big ingredient for their success. Promoting a family atmosphere where mom/dad can race ALONG with the kids and that brings more spectator/crew pass sales cause its a "family" event. Mom, dad, siblings, friends, etc.

Down here there are many kids who graduated from JR's and are doing EXTREMELY well in big cars. Bradley Snowball, Marie Muller, Nick Ianelli, Dan Young, etc, etc. THIS IS WHERE THE NEXT GENERATION IS COMING FROM!! I suggest many of you lighten up about the JR program!!!:);):)

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I think the "problem" with Jrs. isn't the kids, it's the parents. After all, it's the parents responsibility to keep an eye on their kids and guide them right. I've seen far too many Jr. drivers going crazy in golf carts, mopeds, etc. at the track when their not even supposed to be driving them but their parents let them anyway. I've seen more than a few kids that think they're the next Courtney Force or Tony Schumacher, but again it was because of the parents that haul him all over the country in a luxury RV to go Jr. Dragster racing.

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There's "NOTHING" wrong with the Jr. Dragster Program. The problems I've seen and experienced are with the parents, their lack of common sense, lack of respect, and in many cases just plain stupidity!...( example : pits set up on paved return roads.) I would die if I ever hurt one of these kids. It's only gonna take ONE TIME for one of these Kids to get Killed or hurt in the pits (God forbid) and it will have an adverse effect on the costs and the future for everyone of us. It just flat PI$$ES me off !!! ... BE proactive, why does something have to happen! .. We could learn from the years of successful Go-Kart programs.... AND... I've yet to see a Kart Race run in conjunction with a Nationwide or Sprint Cup Race. There's a time and place for everything. And Jrs. need there own venue, and it's not at races with full size cars.

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"And Jrs. need there own venue, and it's not at races with full size cars."

Deal killer right there. With very few exceptions there isn't enough revenue to support a JR only event at most tracks, AND those parents with kids in JR's will now be at another race rather than supporting a big car event. How many big car racers can we stand to lose?? I would say at least 80% of JR racers are from racing families.

PS: I agree about pitting on a return road. Seen MANY big car guys do it too. Did any of you ever mention it to a track official????

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Please keep in mind that many of the people you are calling "stupid" are your fellow racers since almost all JR racers are kids of racers. Here's a short list of some of the best Northeast racers that came up through the ranks of JR Dragsters......

Joe Santangelo
Don & Bill Pires
Heather Robelotto
Tyler Filipone
Tom Boucher
Angela Ray

I certainly wouldn't call ANY of their parents stupid. We have run Super Stock in Div 1 for many years and these are some of the smartest, kindest and respectful people we know.

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Jim, thanks for your opinion of Jrs.!

You know what they say about opinions.

Had respect for ya, not so much anymore. Remember, you race with some of these "parents". Some things left better unsaid.

PS both my kids have run Jrs, and I wouldn't trade 1 dollar of what I spent, and what I and many other Jr. parents have taught my kids about racing, and more importantly, life.

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[QUOTE=We could learn from the years of successful Go-Kart programs.... AND... I've yet to see a Kart Race run in conjunction with a Nationwide or Sprint Cup Race. There's a time and place for everything. And Jrs. need there own venue, and it's not at races with full size cars.[/QUOTE]

Best quote in this entire thread in my opinion....

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Mr. Anderson & Mr. Snowball, if you chose not to run the SSSSA Races because I voice the questionable decision to let five year olds race, then so be it. That's some pretty silly reasoning if you ask me. You really aren't hurting anyone but yourselves.

My whole point for starting this thread was to make it known about NHRA's decision to allow five year olds to race in Jr. Dragster and to voice my opinion (yes I am allowed to have one as are you) in regard to said decision. Both of you being veterans of the Jr. Dragster program are aware of the many problems associated with the decision making capabilities of drivers of the younger groups in the program. I have see three Jr. Dragster accidents and almost been involved in one on the return road. Not every kid is a rocket scientist or a John Force at age five no matter what you think. All it will take is for ONE kid to make the wrong decision one time and they could be killed or badly hurt. And that is my point. Five years old is TOO young to give a kid an 60 or 80 mph rocket and allow them to drive or tow through the pits with no adult supervision. We all know they do both so don't say they don't. Our sport is dangerous enough with some of the idiot adults we race with. Why compound it and risk our babies to a situation that could risk their life?

I'm glad to say I met Dan Young and his family and he has done very well racing with the SSSSA and I think he is a talented driver. He will do well as an adult racer. My prediction is you will hear more about him in the future.

This thread has nothing to do with the SSSSA. To infer that it does, as I stated before, is just silly. If either of you would like to discuss this with me in person, please feel free to. You both know how to get ahold of me. Jim


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How many non junior accidents have you witnessed Jim ?Unreal post ! And can someone explain the definition of real race car.

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I'm gonna review my post, and clarify it, just encase there's any stupid racers out there that wish to put their own negative opinions, or words in my mouth.... #1... I like the Jr. Dragster Program, I think it's great, and in a different time, I woulda been involved with my son.. #2 ... I never called any racer(s) or parent(s) stupid. What I have personally, witnessed, are several situations ( with Jrs. ) that were pure stupidity, and could have, or will result in injury. I love kids, especially ones that are interested in racing! I don't want to see any of them injured. #3. ... recently, we've seen the result of pit accidents between full size racecars. ie: Indy/Montegomery. Can you imagine the result between a Jr. Dragster and a Stocker, or worse yet a child in the Jr. being run over by a full size racecar ( keep in mind parents, you signed the release). The rule books are written in blood! It is my PERSONAL opinion that the sanctioning bodies have not been proactive enough with regulating the Jr. Dragsters, namely, making it a safer environment for them to compete. Just imagine a kid getting killed in the pits by a full size car! Do you have any idea what the todays media would do with that!? The insurance companys!? -OMG- It's the last thing Drag Racing needs right now. Unfortunately, not until someone gets hurt will anything be done. Until then we all must be cautious - including the Jrs. - to minimize the danger. As far as stupid racers go, anyone that knows me personally, will tell you, I have no problem calling you stupid to you face, if it's deserved.

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Thanks Jim. Pretty much what I have been trying to say with little success apparently. There will be those people out there who just don't get it or just want to be confrontational. Jim


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read the rules on this and you wont look like a fool

In the 5-year-old classification, the Trainee category, participants can begin running a Jr. Dragster with a crate engine from Briggs & Stratton with a slide valve limiting the power output of the engine. Trainee participants will make single passes down the dragstrip to get familiar with the car and track surroundings in a non-pressure environment.


Another separate classification for 6-and-7-year-olds also has been created, the Youth category, which will allow participants to begin competing head to head on the track at the 13.90-second index with a crate engine and slightly increased power output from the Trainee category engine.

The NHRA Summit Racing Jr. Drag Racing League also offers different categories for age groups up to 17 with speed and elapsed time restrictions for participants based on age and experience. Those categories are novice (8-9)12.90, intermediate (10-12)8.90, and advanced (13-17)7.90.

so 7.90 car goes around 84 to 90 mph,well a 5 year old can't go 7.90
let go with a 12.90 car that goes around 40 mph, wait still can't
so let's go with a car that goes 14.90 @ 25 mph with more safety gear then I have to wear in my stocker that goes 10.90.

we are not giving a 5 year old a car that goes 80 mph to race
we are giving them 25 mph car on single pass to learn how to drive it

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Kind of like this????

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Nope.... kinda like you! Jim

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Wow, way too much "painting all with a brush" here. "All" juniour do this or that, "All" parents do this or that. Really guys? What is this a democrat convention? LOL!

I took my kid behind a local grocery store at 6am on a Sunday morning to let him pull ahead a bit, then step on it and then finally hold it wide open for 30-50ft. Each time I went over and over what to do in case of...

Now, I could take my 10 (or 5 yo) to a track with safety personnel, do the same thing, by himself until he's confortable. That's all it is, the reg's for the age of competition have not lowered, just the age they can sit in the car and actually control it themselves.

I hate motorcycles and sleds, but they have as much right as anybody else to race. Sport compacts run, street run, S/SS run, pro, super pro, bike/sled and then juniors. Then it starts over and everyone has time to cool down between rounds.

Me thinks there's WAY to much over reacting and then piling on by those who hate them that there is actual "evidence" or "proof" of anything.

I think it's called "knee-jerk"

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I forgot we live in a time where you can't have an opinion.

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I have raced at tracks many times that had jr dragsters racing. Lots of them and other than an occasional issue there is rarely a problem...


Once in a while some parents get into some sort of argument over something that happened and it winds up in a fracus of some sort....Just like when my son was in little league and some over zealous parents did the same thing.

about the only "accidents" I have ever heard of is when a kid turned to sharply to exit the track and turned a car over once or twice...No kid that I can recall was ever hurt and no full size car was ever involved in any kind of accident with a Jr....

I was at Maple Grove last year for a weekend race and they had a huge filed of Jr's running along with their regular program.....on the same track....NO issues...

Englishtown has a separate 1/8th mile track form the big track...so there is no issues...

Numidia runs a pretty good Jr program on regular race days and there are no problems that I know of or saw when I was there...

Island dragway used to have a pretty good jr program on regular race days....other than the time they use up....and the occasional fracus as I mentioned between parents....that got handled by track management or security...no big deal.....No worse than any altercation over some foolish issue....

The sport needs any new people it can get.....

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It's a lot better than a drug problem.

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You COMPLETELY missed my point. I somewhat agree with you about the 5-7 year olds. What got me fired up is YOUR BLANKET STATEMENTS REGUARDING JR RACERS AND PARENTS IN GENERAL. My guess is you really dis-like the JR program and this topic is your chance to air out your distain.

Like it or not YOU ARE THE PRESIDENT OF THE SSSSA and its MOUTHPIECE! How well do you think you are motivating todays JR racers to come race with the SSSSA?

60-80 mph rockets?!? You really have NO clue do you? 12.90 cars go upper 40 mph and maybe 50 mph MAX! Kids cant go faster till the age of 10. The 5-7 year olds will be slower.

Towing/driving through the pits? Once again its right in the rulebook. The car is shutoff at the exit from the track and the car is towed back to the pits. If its not being done at any race you attend AND you feel like its a safety issue, PLEASE feel free to report it to a race official. Since YOU are a sanctioning body official yourself I'm sure you bring these safety issues to the managements attention, don't you???

Oh you'll see plenty of me. I'll be finishing the season in stock then jr takes over. I'm going back to my "real" race car. I do plan on attending as many SSSSA races as possible. I need the cash. You see being one of "those" JR parents, its EXPENSIVE running my lil John Forces all over the country! LOL!

PS; My 13yo lil John Force spent this evening dis-assembling his motor (broken crank). Both my kids do all their own maintenance and at race track servicing. Pretty impressive even to me. They both can put together .00something packages with their two feet and a lawnmower engine. Just wait..........

PPS: We are very good friends and BIG FANS of the Young family. I know you wont believe it but there is a majority of families, like the Youngs, the Snowballs, the Ferraros, the Bouldrys, the Tolisanos, the Brannons, the Miles, the Penningtons, etc, etc. These people are the NORM. Are there problem JR parents?? ABSOFRIGGINLUTELY!!!! BUT they are the exception! NOT the NORM.

PPPS! One REALLY good thing is going to come out of this thread Jim. Snowball says he is putting the yellow car back together and he is sending Bradley up to follow you to the lanes every race!! LMAO!!:);):)

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Hands down the best post of this thread! Some people would do well to read and reread this post and let it sink in! Jim


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I'm going to try to take this and answer you statement by statement if I can so please bear with me.

I think the Jr. Dragster program is a great concept if done correctly and safely. Someone once said "I love the human race, it's the people I can't stand". If you can follow my analogy then maybe you can better see where I'm coming from with this whole thing. I have two kids who I considered putting in one of these things back in the day but the interest just wasn't there on their part so I didn't want to waist the money.

Yep, at this present time I am the President of the SSSSA. Until someone else wants to step up and put up with the constant crap I have to put up with or I keel over that probably won't change. However, when I became President I didn't relinquish my right to make an opinion or ask a question the same as you. I am very opinionated, you should know that by now. I really don't think any of the Jr. Dragster pilots give two hoots what I have to say about anything! I do think its kind of funny that several other racers have pretty much said almost exactly what I said and you didn't jumped in their feces the way you did me. Maybe I worded things poorly and it hit you differently.

OK, obviously I am no expert on the MPH of the various classes of Jr. Dragsters, You and several others here are certainly in a better position to school me on that. For that I thank you. I learned something! I can't say as my eyes are glued to the score boards when they run so I had to pretty much guess on that. It's sort of like the guy on the street who says the Fire Truck was doing 100 MPH when it went by, when actually it was doing 45.

Now, I have seen and apparently many others also have seen Jr. Dragsters being driven through the pits. To say they are not is just not true. It might be a rule that they are not supposed to do that but we all know rules are broken all the time by the kids and the adults. And yes safety is and always will be paramount in my mind not just because of my position with the SSSSA but as a 30 year Firefighter and Paramedic/EMT. Safety is the main reason I started this thread! I stated this several times.

I'm glad to hear you say I will be seeing plenty more of you AND your family in the near future. That is what Jim Woods and I envisioned for the Association. Good, safe, family fun! We haven' seen much of the Snowballs lately but it will be nice to see them back again also. I'm also glad to hear your kids are so into racing. You truly are a lucky guy! My boy only went with me a few times to the races and had a couple of pretty fast street cars ( 12 second V6 Firebird and a mid 9 second Supra)but just never got into the Class Racing aspect.

Since writing this post about the Jr. Dragsters I have received many emails and PM's from racers on here who agree with me who for what ever reason don't want to post publically. Maybe they don't want any part of the abuse they have seen me take by some of you for speaking my mind. Only one has been what I would call abusive but I'm really not sure I completely understood all he was saying as he wrote at about the third grade level and had a hard time expressing himself. Maybe he was a third grader! Oh well. I have thick skin.

I think maybe as far as the non-safety aspects of my posts are concerned, I must just attract the rude and disrespectful Jr. Dragster drivers as I have seen way too many situations of thoughtlessness and lack of concern for fellow racers by both kids and parents alike. I have also met a few that give me hope that our sport will do well with them at the wheel.

As parents we are all responsible up to a certain age for their actions and their actions reflect on you as their parent. That said remember that your actions teach them how to act and react to different situations, watching how you act and react is mainly how they learn. If you teach them respect at home they will do fine at the track.

Oh and the main complaint I have fielded from other racers is the obnoxious noise those engines make! Put a muffler on them!!! Jim

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Im one who thinks parents should NOT take their kids to a restaurant until the kid turns 30 ! The obnoxious noise they make is worse than the engines without mufflers. Almost ! Jim, has it right.

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"I love the human race, it's the people I can't stand". Yeah I hear ya. Welcome to the game of LIFE

You are 100% entitled to your opinion. However as SSSSA President maybe you could filter it a bit. Here is an anology for ya. Mailroom guy for company XYZ gets on the WWW and shoots his mouth off. 99.9% of the world doesnt even notice. CEO of XYZ does the same and company XYZ goes down the tubes. Not fair but thats the way it is.

I didnt jump in others feces for 2 reasons, (1) I aint got the time, CR aint got the bandwidth. This thread would be doubled in length. (2) most of the other posts are from "faceless" posters. If they dont say who they are they go on auto-ignore.

I AM very LUCKY in many ways. I have created two monsters who are more ate up with this sport than I ever was. Didnt think that was possible! LOL! They both are growing into fine young men and I owe a lot to our extended racing family for helping out with that.

I too have gotten many calls/PM's supporting my/our position.

"As parents we are all responsible up to a certain age for their actions and their actions reflect on you as their parent. That said remember that your actions teach them how to act and react to different situations, watching how you act and react is mainly how they learn. If you teach them respect at home they will do fine at the track."

Agree 100% with this BUT change the last sentence to read in life!

Didnt know you were a FF/Medic. I'm on duty right now. 21 years down. We'll discuss that one more over a cool one. See you at the track soon.

PS; If at the end of this all we have an issue with is noise, I can live with that! LOL!

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I'm guessing you are not a parent? I thought you were joking about running JR's on tues/wed in the middle of the day? I guess not. If you are serious there is nothing I can say.

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After reading thru the posts on this subject I see there are some pretty strong sentiments on both sides. As for me my son raced JR's and went on to become a very successful racer, winning in most everything he's driven (including a motorhome) while gaining the respect and friendship of his fellow racers. Now I have no way of knowing for sure if drag racing was the thing that helped in developing his way of living his life but I do know that I've never had to bail him out of jail, he's never been in any real trouble and he's become a responsible adult and father. This summer my grandson will begin his JR dragster racing and I'm hopeful that he too will develop the same skills and friendships that my son did. That being said my personal opinion on 5 year olds racing is let's wait and see....I'm sure there are some kids that will be just fine, some not so much, no different from the adult racers we all race with today...there's some good ones and well not so good as far as handling themselves.