Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

A few years ago somebody knocked off 50-75 HP off some Corvette, then the 400 Chevy got a typo, then the 390 Fords got a gift, and the 383's (both stones), I'm sure there are other examples as well

Not too sure I'd be popping buttons over being fast under those conditions

As someone once posted here: they're not fast, or smarter, they're just in the wrong class

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

RJ, you are correct. Us Mopar people are a bunch smarter than you Blue Oval folks. Now that we got that out of the way, I might have to look at my old Super Bee. It's getting closer to those 396 cars. We were about a half second behind. Maybe I will just stay in the new cars. Less controversy there. But your new car needs hp.

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Yes you are correct we do need more horsepower to keep up with you guys.

Kirk

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I wonder how many illegal motors have caused legal motors HP?

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Ha, can't count that high.

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They're not illegal, they're undocumented.

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I would guess not many. There are very few disqualifications during tear downs. I think most Stock and Super Stock racers try to stay with in the rules. At least this is my observation. There is also the protest provision in the rule book if you suspect someone is illegal. Put up the cash and they have to tear down.

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

That ship left the port many years ago.
That is the reason why we have ported heads in Super Stock, bogus port volume numbers and much more that has been allowed throughout the years.

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Beard, more hp equals more weight! Those who choose to run their cars to trigger the reviews reap the benefit of pounding their chest and adding more lead! There's your weight adjustment! Pretty easy to figure out, for me anyway!

Kevin, and all others who don't like SS with GT included......go run Comp!

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Because you can put different engine combinations in the same FWD car!

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Not sure about this but didn't the GT rules at one time only allow for cars that came with a v8 to run a v8. IIRC, that is where the wrong turn happened.

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

That's precisely my point. If you're going to argue that FWD conversion cars have an inherent advantage, then all FWD conversions cars should start out with a weight penalty. The aerodynamic and chassis advantages don't disappear when they change engines.

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

Don Kennedy was the pioneer for the creation of the class, originally with RWD cars only.

FJ Smith was the one that brought the idea to NHRA for introducing FWD cars into the class.

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

If I remember right, there is a .05 disadvantage for a GT car almost accross the board, but not entirely. That from looking at the weight per hp etc. The motors are the same; must be accepted in SS already, then came the jelly bean cars, then some years ago NHRA asked me to request older cars in SS GT as they had many request. This I did and I guess some of the effect was all the older cars are rwd, hence longer wheel bases, harder to make a set of headers cause the stock steering has to stay in a rwd GT car, and a few other things like that. The factoring rwd/fwd, if I remember right was a proposal from SRAC last year. So now the cars (such as my old Duster) don't get hit if someone with a 360 spikes it with a jelly bean car. Michael, your idea of a weight penalty for the jelly beans has merit, but would you use a percentage as opposed to a set weight? Just asking. Same effect, but the administration could be difficult.

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

wont be long until this is the nhra adjustment posting...

"nhra announces that due to an AHFS infraction all blue 1987 malibu's 4 doors with the 305 combination will be hit with 6 HP"

this is insane and i once again repeat Automatic Help For Slugs cannot and will not ever wotk !

captain

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

Dunno, I'd posed it as a question myself earlier. It would require some research and common sense. FWD Stockers have a static 100lb weight difference between sticks & automatics. SS/GT Trucks have a weight break for automatics that is "5% or 250 lbs, whichever is less". Again, they'd have to do some research, but would probably end up something like the latter. I don't see that the administration would be much different than what they're doing now, except you wouldn't have a single engine combination with 3 different HP factors! :p

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

Jack you are right and what is worse sooner of later the "Man" who is racing will be factored due to skill, money or connections.
Div 6. I again state that making a class of generic cars, with spec motors and trans allowed would give all the people who HATE the factoring a place to race based on SKILL and driving. Everyone else could watch it become the way to race and join or continue to feel inadequate under the AFHS system.(Glad I don't still have one) One legal Mod type car and motor and you cut the cost too. LB/CUBIC Inch in a.......... Chassis. Max cube and carb specs too. I would race again if it happens.
No more injected 305 taxi motor versus a plain old chevy.

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

Although it will require some refinement like everything else, using Nitro Joe's data, either a weight break or adjustment can be assessed in lieu of playing with the HP factors.

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Dick, so your proposal only considers a specific generic model of a car?

Everyone has a like for the choice and brand of cars they like to race in Super Stock.
There are people that like to race a station wagon, others a sedan, etc...

If you are proposing putting a limit and utilizing a specific model of car, the proposal is not going to fly with the racers. The class was built on cars many of us have or drive daily, many of them with nostalgic memories.

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So you want to give an Achieva the same weight penalty as a brand new East Texas Cobalt?

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So What happens when they go fast? Keep adding weight to different cars? Now you really have a mess!

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Surprisingly enough, the drag coefficient's of both cars are nearly the same. 0.32 and 0.33

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The real difference is who builds the car!
There are big differences and approaches between the builders.

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There is a limit, it's called the classification guide!

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Div 6. No I propose re-creating a Super Mod type class. Don't do away with anything else yet. Create a class for those who WANT limitations that ease their budget. People who WANT to stop rebuilding another car, seeing HP of new car in their class unrealistic. People who Want an alternative to Mega $ motors and chassis.
Give them an index for points meets. Chose the limitations to make it ALL the same numbers if you want. Let the rest of the people race the wagons, the Blown-injected factory cars but let people have a cheaper entry level of real Heads up class racing instead of Bogus Hp winners or Bogus chassis winners. After all that's the complaint you see from many in this thread, uneven factoring and allowances on Gt chassis.
Then workers will be winners, not only cash to change your combination.

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

Where do you get that data?

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That's what I was wondering ..

Must be true - I saw it on the internet - LMAO

Ron

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

Had used this:
http://mechdb.com/index.php/Vehicle_..._of_drag_specs

or this:
http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/...t_of_Drag_List

as comparison sources, probably more sources available.

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My only gripe in any of this is that the cars that 'trigger' the Hp...should be torn down and pass before Hp is handed out.

Thanks Mr South for the needless 4Hp gift on my 305 combo. Just enough to keep me from running Indy this year for the 1st time in my life like I had planed. Our JA average was safe, our LA average was safe, but 2 cars running KA hit it at -1.04 under and their average was -.91 under....so, it screws everyone.

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

in my latest stats only 10 FWD drive cars are are the fastest in the GT classes
hope that 55 chevy doesn't go to fast, he might get his body HP'ed, lol
GT/A … 1837 … Anthony Scinto … '94 Cavalier
GT/B … 356 … David Neal … '05 Sunfire
GT/C … 356 … David Neal … '05 Sunfire
GT/D … 354 … Ernie Neal … '05 Cavalier
GT/E … 5518 … Mark Jenkins … '02 Cavalier
GT/G … 3858 … Dan Jacobs … '05 Cavalier
GT/H … 1473 … Ray Scardelli … '97 Probe
GT/I … 5270 … Tim Nicholson … '67 Chevy II
GT/J … 2134 … Everett Hill … '64 Mustang
GT/K … 3997 … Bill Zaskowski … '66 Chevy II
GT/L … P270 … Rickey Pennington … '81 Malibu
GT/M … 6278 … Michael Parmenter … '55 Chevy
GT/AA … 1108 … Gary Richard … '10 Mustang
GT/BA … 2428 … Andy Fogle … '05 Cavilier
GT/CA … 3028 … Jerry Silveus … '05 Cavalier
GT/DA … 2207 … Jeff Taylor … '10 Cobalt
GT/EA … 1122 … TJ Boucher … '87 Camaro
GT/FA … 1409 … Eric Bardekoff … '68 Barracuda
GT/GA … 318 … Dan Kyle … '87 Firebird
GT/HA … 1140 … Tom Boucher … '85 Pontiac
GT/IA … 1231 … Victor Santos … '85 Firebird
GT/JA … 2619 … Joe Tysinger … '87 Firebird
GT/KA … 2117 … Glen Treadwell … '87 Camaro
GT/LA … 2117 … Glen Tredwell … '87 Camaro
GT/MA … 554 … Ron Roddel … '02 Grand Am

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

Not to mention some of the cars being built completely ignore the rules and are allowed to race. There were pictures on here a while back of a bubble car being built that had a tube chassis with all the floor replaced. Don't remember the name but it is racing now.

Super stock is in my blood but if I was starting from scratch now I would do a 275 car. Cheaper, more races and heads up.

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

Even though it is cumbersome I think you have to stick with the system that is in place now which is rating the engine combo and platform individually. There ate to many variables to do it otherwise fwd to rwd, aero, headers, carb to hood clearance etc.

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After everyone saw those pictures of the floor pan, someone complained to NHRA and the car's floor was replaced with a correct floor pan.

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If we're talking about a Ford build, the tubular bracing was installed above the stock floorpan and covered with sheet aluminum for cosmetic reasons. He left holes for the tech to see the original pan.

Dale

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That list is missing a pile of fast FWD cars like Brina Splingaire, Norm Hall, Todd Franz, Mark Nowicki, Dave Layer, Bob Dennis and Irvin Johns. I'm sure I left out a bunch.

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Nitro
I'm courious, look up and see how many RWD GT cars won class at Indy last year....That would be a better baromometer than that list you put up...Or look at the qualifying sheet at Indy, that way,they are all on the same track and conditions....Jeff

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

I would be hesitant to single out FWD conversion cars for cheating on floorpan rules, there have been numerous photos of conventional SS chassis builds (even on this website) that show blatant floorpan replacement. Have you noticed how low to the ground some of the 60's era cars have gotten? Crawl underneath most 60's era cars with a tape measure and tell me how you legally can get framerails and shocks in place without raising the floorpan? The area between the framerails is getting raised, carpeting does wonders at covering up shiney new non-factory sheetmetal.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that FWD conversion cars have an advantage as far as rules are concerned and every year the rule interpretation seems to be getting a little looser. I didn't build my FWD conversion car that long ago and it's a dinosaur compared to what is being allowed now.

Jim Caughlin
SS 6019

Re: HP Adjustments on NHRA.com
 

Agree, some of the cars are closer to a Comp Eliminator Super Modified than Super Stock.

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5 RWD GT cars won class at Indy out of 13 GT classes that had more than one car.

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Actually, I would question if some of the chassis builders even view the spec for a Comp type Super Mod chassis and an SS type Modifed chassis as being any different. I think they are pretty much 'stamping' them out of the same mold...