Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Alan, Did you happen to read my post in " Indy Observation " ????
Your post is spot on.
EVERYONE should have the SAME SET OF RULES.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

there is a way that everybody could keep their current junk and all race each other. The traditional guys don't want to change the way things have been for years but look what NHRA is doing to y'all. Have the **** swinging contest in class elims then take out heads ups in eliminations. Everybody has a dial in and a chance no matter who they race. Nobody has to sell anything and car counts probably go through the roof. the new car guys won't be able to stand it and the old car guys are too stubborn to get with the times andunderstand that implementing a rule like that will be the only chance they will ever have against the new cars.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

X's a million on this one !!

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

OK I am up -- got the kind of responses I expected. from the same three keyboard jockeys.

You guys do not want any change that impacts 40 year old cars.

How in the heck can the rules stand still with all that is going on in performance increases.

I wish we were in our own eliminator - but I do that would stop the whining.

At the end of the day - who really cares - it is not our game - it belongs to NHRA and the "big 3" - like it or not - it is about selling cars - not race cars.

Guys find someone to harp on that really cares - I just decided to break my pact with other late model fast car owners and address you guys - they were right - none of you would ever step up and ever agree with change - to stuck in the past.

Go to NHRA an get the rules changed - so far the old cars have been dismissed (mostly).

Say to NHRA formally what you are saying on here - which does not count.

Or maybe we should stop racing our cars to show our displeasure with how the 40 year old cars have been screwed.

Have a great rest of the holiday.



Ron

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

let me just say I completely understand the lure of putting something together within a certain set of rules and out running a lot of other guys with hard work and dedication and knowledge. Nhra has eliminated that by allowing these new cars which you guys can't compete with those of you who have the older set ups. you simply cannot tell someone that they do not deserve to compete because they cannot afford a 100000 car

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Did Larry Hill make NHRA tech look stupid????
The way I understand it if there is no data on a
combo nhra starts the combo out at "advertised" H.p.
on all these combo's. what else do they have to go from.
Agreed auto was already rated higher but sticks and auto's are
always separated. The low h.p. rating of 155 from GM.
I am sure they were colluding with larry hill to crush V/S
index some 28 years after production?
"AHFS" will add some 40 ISH H.p. tomorrow morning
and I am sure Larry knew it going into indy....
This will never be a 2 second under deal again.
combo moves to probably top of Q stick for natural class.
Still a great job and congrats to Larry and family.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Hey "treekiller" .... what level of investment are you at with your equipment? or do you just go out and kill trees for hire? If you had 100k + (God I hope my wife doesn't get on this site) in your Stocker, and lets say it is a classic muscle car that you personally have a passion for, I bet you wouldn't like the current rules either. It may be easy for someone that isn't invested in a traditional stocker to just dismiss them as obsolete but there are plenty of them out there and they represent American cars at there finest in my opinion.

I am rather tech savvy and have considered building a new car as well, I just don't wan't to make a bracket racer out of my Chevelle just yet.

Tracy Pedigo (real name)
70 Chevelle C/SA (real car - former record holder)

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Like or not, that's the message. NHRA has been saying that in one way or another for years. I remember when the GT classes were formed hearing an NHRA official telling Jimmy Bridges "There comes a time to put a race horse out to pasture." The writing was on the wall then. (Early 1990's). Nothing has changed, it's just become more obvious.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Tracy you misunderstood me. My car is only a high10 second Saturday night bracket car. I think everybody should be allowed to race when I said the old guys are too stubborn I meant that most of them don't want to change the rules and run no heads up in eliminations.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

and by the way I would gladly kill trees for hire if I could. I can barely afford to run my own car. Gene Schmaltz jr

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Tracy read the last line of post number 45

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

This coming Tuesday morning five Indy racers will be penalized with a horsepower increase for going more than 1.20 under the index because they ran in their real class. The sixteen other racers who qualified more than 1.20 under the index but chose to run one of the Factory Stock classes get no slap on the wrist at all.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Agree 100% with Alan.

Only outspending your competition to win is a very hollow satisfaction.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to call our decal maker for my "P's & Q's". (Wonder if anyone will get that joke...)

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

lol !!

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Oh, we agree with change Ron. It is the fact that you want everything changed in your favor that is the problem. You want cars already in the class kicked out so you can have your own playground. The new cars got a free pass with the AHFS, that's the sort of change you want.

The rules could stay the same with no problems. There was zero need to change the rules of Stock Eliminator due to "performance increases". New production street cars could have been listed in the guide and raced with no problems. And then the factory race cars could have been put in their own Factory Experimental class, where they belong.

And yeah, if your store bought "I mortgaged my house and spent my life savings to buy fast" car was in its own class, Factory Experimental, along with the rest of them, the complaining would stop.

You'll excuse me now, it's Labor Day, I have to go labor in my garage to make money to pay for racing parts.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Ya this doesn't seem right.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Pact with the new cars? That's probably because most of the new car folks understand that there is no defense for the indefensible. Why stir up a fuss when they are getting what they want?

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Ron, I'm not sure your in the "late model fast car owners" club.

Evaluating DRC, your car is too slow to qualify at Indy.

Guess you'll need to buy a Hellcat engine so you can MAYBE go fast again.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Agreed!.... Wally & Farmer & Marty

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Why is there even the thought to legislate 90% of the cars currently in Stock (2007-older cars) out, so the 10% of new (2008-newer) cars can have their own playground? Seems backwards to me. Put the F/X cars in their own Class(es) and leave Stock alone. All the F/X cars in one class--the factories will have their own Class with no AHFS or penalties, can run all-out and get all the ink.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Mike, how dare you bring common sense and reason into this.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Okay, I have to ask.Why didn't you just run 13.50 or so and protect the combo?

Can 128 of us still build trucks and qualify for Indy or is the combo ruined?

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Just a note on language here.

I've heard the term Nostalgia used in connection with the "older" cars. In a lot of racing and collecting circles, referring to a vintage or classic muscle car as "nostalgia" will get you, um, shot.

Just saying'

Dale

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

You have a habit of miss quoting people on here. We do not run "factory stock" it is a travesty and insult to many of my fellow racers - get your facts straight when you refer to me.

I never asked for a single rule change.

Why don't you busy yourself and your keyboard with letters to NHRA. I am sure if the issues are so egregious they will listen and surely change them. I am happy with whatever rule change you can effect.

If you could take the time to show me where I asked for this - I would really appreciate it.

I consider it an insult when you accuse me of dishonorable decisions – I am entitled to make my own decisions and they have nothing to do with how you think.

If you think for one minute I did this because I have the money or desire to beat up on 40 year old cars - why not see me at a drag race - if you ever go to one - oh and please make it out west - I cannot afford to travel back east.

And Bruce - it is not hollow to step up and spend the necessary money on upgrading to a new car .. it is exhilarating - I did not have anything to do with the rules. It has taken a long time to change my thinking to be competitive with a new car - the trouble is none of you have a clue on how hard it is to make one of these go fast.

You apparently think it does not take rear end gear changes, transmission gear changes, converter changes, tuning changes, valve spring changes, cam shaft changes and many other things, too numerous to mention. It takes way more than money but you do not want to believe that - you think you just spend your way to going fast – that causes me to doubt your racing savvy – spending is rarely the answer – hard work and effort usually nets performance increases.

I am a predictive analyst and studied very careful what I thought was the proper course of action – I never considered easy or money being the answer -now you choose to decide I am some sort of bad person with evil ulterior motives.

Perhaps I should have picked the most out of line 40 year old car and BOUGHT one of those -- that would have been OK – right? Or better yet - follow Larry Hills lead and find a combination that is only out of line …

Please vote (on here) to see if we should abandon our new car in favor of a 40 year old one like we use to run. Have NHRA change the factory stock rules and quite beating up on people who love and are driven by drag racing.

Work for change with NHRA not me – except for Jeff T. - no fast car owners want to endure the insults you guys through around on here instead of working for change with NHRA.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Ask Dad on that one.

I'd say combo is ruined, but won't know till tomorrow.

The v6 auto will very good.

V8 auto and stick are excellent.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Talking about an outdated concept "working with nhra for change"

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Just watch who starts crying when the Hellcat hits the track with 375 HP rating, all those other $100k cars will be worthless. It's just a matter of time for all the Copo's and Cobra Jets will hope that NHRA does their job just like the older cars owners have been waiting for. OK, maybe not 375 hp, maybe 400 hp. You have to remember that Mopar is producing that engine in a street car, just an overrating of hp on the advertisement for the public. It will be like back in the day if you were a street racer, there was never a 396/375 or 427/425 ever was built, only 396/325 in your big block Camaro's.

Casey Miles

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Not ruined. probably be about a 1.00 second under
combo now if someone works hard at it. no easy
deal now.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Guess you will have to learn a little about how to play the game ..you never know how much someone weighs from looking at DRC .. not everyone runs as lite as they can .. we protected our HP .. we would have qualified in Super Stock (the eliminator we chose to run) .. but that is all speculation we were not there.

Since you pay so much attention to DRC .. I guess you knew that we run Super Stock - LMFAO

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

1. No one ever said anything about anyone running "factory stock", certainly I did not. You have a habit of being condescending and insulting. I did not misquote you on anything. No one else is claiming they're insulted. Just you.

2. I suggest you look up thread, where you specifically stated the old cars should get kicked out of Stock Eliminator and put in some sort of "nostalgia" class. I can point it out for you if you like.

Here, try your post, #17 in this thread: 3. Letters have already been written to NHRA, Ron. You chose to jump in this thread. Now you want to tell everyone whether or not they should comment, and how? Seems true to your form, since you said we should all be forced to mortgage our homes and spend our life savings to stay in the class. Of course, you'll deny that, too. See your post, #24 in this thread.

4. See #2 above, in this very thread you not only asked for older cars to be removed from the class, but stated we should all have to spend everything we have in order to compete. See your post, #24, in this thread.

5. I never called your decision dishonorable. You came out and bragged that you mortgaged your house and spent your life savings. I said it was your choice, one most of us would not make. I don't care what you do with your money. I do care if you try to force the rest of us to have to do it. Again, I call your attention to your post, #24, in this thread.

6. So, now you want me to come to the west coast to speak to you, because you spent all your money and can't come to the east coast. How amusing. Ask anyone who has met me, and there are plenty, I'll tell anyone face to face what I think. I haven't lost anything out west, if you wish to "confront' me, you can come east.

Ron, since you want to make this personal, I suggest you take it up with the owner of the site. I have not made any personal attacks, and I will not. Ken has offered us this site for polite and civil discussion, I will abide by his rules.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Sorry my mistake - I thought the ANRA (American Nostalgia Racing Association) allowed 40 year old cars - LMFAO

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

I never bragged - you consider it bragging when some one makes decisions you can not bring yourself to make.

Once again you are trying to engage me in a personal verbal argument on here - you act like a mad child lashing out and finding fault with all truth.

Never address the real issues.

I am not making it personal - stop attacking me personally - look at your words ..

I only wanted to discuss with you in person not on here - what I can afford to do is my business - I suspect you can not afford to come west either.

Now get off of here and watch the ESPN broadcast - this has been exactly what I thought it would be - very entertaining - that is all this website provides - entertainment.

Oh and most of all opinion.

I do not think it is your make up to just let it drop.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Chris I have some Ps and Qs for the truck. Just can't have the As. Lmao. Congrats on indy!

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Am I only dreaming is it possible to have as fair
a playing field as possible for old and new ???
I think the diversity of stock and super stock
is what makes it "way cool" to quote a sticker.
Indy had vehicles from 1955 to 2014 this year.
I think that is great. Would be boring to have
128 of the same vehicle. To quote someone
else "can't we all just get along ? "

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

We have very good credentials "how to play the game."

Actually, decades of experience on the largest stage.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Alan said:

"The rules could stay the same with no problems. There was zero need to change the rules of Stock Eliminator due to "performance increases". New production street cars could have been listed in the guide and raced with no problems. And then the factory race cars could have been put in their own Factory Experimental class, where they belong."

The best paragraph in this whole thread. This sums it up perfectly. You just can not have a "no hold bared" group racing a heavily ruled group and expect equality. Ron, when did you become so confrontational? Damn! Jim

.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Chris, suggest getting some "M" and "N"'s made up. Your Dad made some unprecedented runs and messed with NHRA's factory love-in.

Ron, I'm speechless...please don't sell a kidney so you can keep up with the new combinations.

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Has NHRA informed the current Pro Stock Teams of this?

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

Now Alan don't go and use logic......

Re: What's wrong with Stock?
 

So now Alan's a keyboard jockey. Alan has some of if not the most intelligent posts on class racer. He is one of the few people on here that I enjoy reading his posts. One thing is clear he knows what he's talking about. All I'll say about new cars is this and I've said this before a few years ago in Baytown I talked to a new car owner in the lanes, I asked him how fast can this thing go. His response was well our last run was at 70% throttle and we shut of early and went -.98 under. That's all you need to know folks.