Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

"Tuners"..... the class racers of the future?

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

I think a part of it is the open trailer and the other part is times have changed.

Look at Hot Rod Magazine drag week, which was just completed. Do not quote me but here are details. Almost 400 cars pre- registered (sold out in something like 10 minutes online) to drive their street legal cars and make time runs at a different track each day for 5 days. You have to drive your car from track to track (there are hidden checkpoints to verify you are driving the car) and cannot have any support vehicles, additional crew or parts added to car. And here is the best part, the fastest cars have a average ET under 7 seconds.

Look at all of the quote manufacturer races, Super Chevy, NMRA, ETC, So many options, so close to home, .

Look at the cars you can buy off the showroom floor, a basic 2008 corvette with a tune from a computer will run low 11 s The new Dodge Challenger (Hellcat) street car (not dragpak) is going to have 707 HP and probably cost $50-60 K and you can drive it to work

And last but not least, sad to say it this way, the danger factor is gone. I think it is great the tracks are safe, so now when a car gets crossed up, it just bruises some body work and stops. Fans want to feel, see danger not really there anymore.
Think about it, when you watch a funnycar blow up, you now expect the driver to just get out of the car.

Times have changed, Enjoy what you have,

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

This is a good question, all the reason brought forward have merit, I will add that on top of NHRA badly showcasing it's sportsman rank I have to point out it's bad management and promotions of events. I've started a Facebook page on Jr Stocker for the simple reason to show that with hard work, dedication and love of the sport you can have fun for a low investment. This year I decided to go back to racing and choose a car that could bring the fun factor back and decided to go back to a open trailer. Oh what a mistake, I had to empty my garage and fill it in my Suburban to make the trek to the track and once the event finish after the haul back home I had to empty the truck and place everything back, that wasn't fun.lol Yes, people did a double take take seeing a car on trailer but it didn't turn me in to the Pied Piper of drag racing for my local track. Enclose trailer is in my future when I will be hauling my new Stocker. The problem is not only with you and me having too much choices for our entertainment(1000 tv channels, casinos, bars,IHRA,NMRA.IRS,ISIS,WAR,DRUGS and all the other things that can get you in trouble like traveling, pro sports) kids are spoiled rotten and have their parents buy them Jr Dragster and later if they're lucky a brand new dragster. The sport is doing fine considering the competition it's going against.The biggest Problem is Compton acting as an Emperor and not one of his court telling him he's not wearing any clothes. What is the cars that could bring back a type of Jr Stock, the third generation Camaro and the Fox body Mustang, stock everything entry level racing, no aftermarket parts, only factory parts, that would be a great entry level racing and to finish what Ed said "We are not an automotive society anymore". CR

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

JMHO as a fan(atic) of the sport since the mid-late 60's.

I could watch stock and superstock all day long. It's what I grew up with.

That said: Pro's dont tour anymore.
Points meets do not always have TAFC and Alcohol Dragsters at every meet.
Factory Super Stock and Stockers don't travel to local tracks.
No grudge racing among the "Big Names".

This is what used to bring out the fans and what got a lot of the early guys into the sport.
You got to run against the factory guys.
I watched a local Torino Cobra Jet Pure Stock street car run against Herb HcCandless in his "Mr 4 Speed" Dart for Top Eliminator at a local track back in the day. A-L-M-O-S-T beat the big dog as well. Became a local legend for a time.

I remember when a few flat towed with a tow bar. They had a real racecar.
Then open trailers. Big time!

Where did that element of the sport go?

Is that something the "New" cars could bring back ?

Maybe it's time to go "Back to the Future" to save drag racing.

Fewer national events and more regional and points races.

Can it ever be what it was?

And as has been stated several times already....people just don't care anymore. At least not in the numbers that used too.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

last spring, at a early race in Vegas, there were lots of cars, local, ot of state and new ones. and there were 20 spectators in the stands. Vegas does great when they have the Big Show. but watch the crowds leave when the stutter and slow down cars show up. that is not racing.
bracket racing has NO appeal to watchers. yes I know it takes a lot of work on part of the racer. whereas the various small orgs which have heads up racing in various classes are standing room.
a race is between two cars and the first one to the finish line is the winner. it is easy to understand and is the American way.
any idiot with lots of $ can put a 550 inch big block Chevy in a 55 Chevy and run 10.90s. but that combo would go way way past the old a/gas lbs per cube. so what you have is no way to compare how fast some guys car is compared to another. there are no bragging rites. the only bragging is how good a lite you cut, and nobody watching cares about that.
then try to explain how you got to the finish line first and lost, to a spectator.
Rod in AZ

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

When I first read the original post I thought it was silly. But I do agree that it was and still is cool to see race cars out on the road. I also have memories of my dad and his ramp truck, and the late 60s ramp school bus we had in the 80s. We still have an open trailer, despite having fairly newer motorhome. We still do get the thumbs up and questions at the gas stations.

If anything has killed our sport, I do not think that killed our sport. At least not that aspect of it. Like most communities, the people that had money, still have it. And it sure shows in our sport. From what I recall in the 90s, you were doing alright if you had a nice dually and an enclosed trailer. You could go to a divisionals even and see many open trailers. Now its all stackers and toters. Drag racers have done the same thing that our entire nation has done. Financed themselves to death, and spent money they didnt have or at least should not have, on things that weren't needed. Don't get me wrong. I get out of bed every morning and chase a dream in hopes ill be pulling in to the track with a toter and stacker some day. But we definitely have spent a lot of money on keeping up with the jones's that wasn't needed.

Bigger than that probably. GAS PRICES. Not the economy as a whole.

As far as the the younger generation. I'm in between in my mid 30's. I have a lot of friends and engine customers in their early and mid 20's some even in their teens. I grew up at the drag strip in the 80's and 90's. I got in to imports in the late 90's right after high school. I love drag racing. Fuel cars, Pro Stock, Alcohol cars, class racing, super classes, and bracket. I love all of it. I love my sport compact racing too. In my opinion... I don't know about the 50's-70's but there are a lot more young guys in to drag racing in the last decade then when I was a kid. My high School was directly in the middle of 2 drag strips within in 5-15 minutes. One of which literally on the same road. I never saw random kids from my school at the track aside from a cpl with parents that raced I knew. Today it seems like all the teenagers and early 20 somethings have, want, or know something about "tuner cars" and have been to the track. And most them did not come from families that raced. Even in the older generation I have always found those people interesting. The people that got in to racing completely on their own. Now I have said that a lot of it is the Fast&Furious fad and most of them are not true gear heads that will stick with it. But some of them are. And those are people that may not of got in to racing if it wasn't for the tuner cars. Some of them have crossed over and are now in to class racing and other drag racing with domestic engines. And to them it never was import vs domestic. It was new technology. And guess what, the domestic cars now are using that technology. Even in class racing. Like it or not those folks bumped up the bar for the old school/domestic guys. So I disagree about the young ones not being in to racing. They just aren't in to the racing you are in to.

That is not their fault though. I have always said we need to unify rather than alienate no matter what side you are on. Most of the sport compact guys would think that Comp, Super Stock, and Stock is amazing with the different engine sizes, configurations, and forced induction with at least some heads up racing would be pretty cool. But they do not know about it. That stuff is not marketed. And the pro cars aren't marketed correctly. On top of the cost of racing being too high for pro and sportsman. Cheaper racing=more racers=more spectators=more sponsorship=cheaper racing=MORE RACING. Pretty simple cycle on paper.

Someone said you can not go back... But I disagree. Even in my short life their have been things that I have looked back on a few years later that I wished I would of tried that at the time seemed unorthodox. What ever it takes to make more of our racing. Make it more affordable. Id be all for rules that make it affordable across the classes even if it all the classes slowed down.

Unified... Bring the small tire/doorslammer, sport compact crowds, and conventional nhra closer together instead of competing against each other. Make sportsman racers part of the show and maybe make some of the sport compact classes and door slammer cars fit in comp/sstk.stk. All good on paper.

I've lurked and sometimes been active on this forum for years and everyone talks about Compton and company. But who holds them accountable. Who has gotten them to verbally or at least virtually acknowledge our complaints? Every now again I see an online article talking about NHRA knowing there is a problem but its just not that simple. If you do this to that class then they are not far et wise then the next slower class etc. If you do this, then what about that. Well they ask the questions hypothetically to their inner circle, but about asking all NHRA members? What about asking the family at home watching on tv that has never even seen a drag strip in person? What about asking all the other drag racers from other series that do not race NHRA fora reason? Why not truly ask everyone that has a stake in it? Why don't we the people complaining make them ask all of our opinions? With out protesting that is... What can we do to make Glendora accountable? What can we do to figure out if it is their fault or not? If it is all about greed.. Salaries, kickbacks, etc. What can we do as members to fix it?

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Everyone here has good points, But truly the fact no one knows what a bracket car even does in the real world today, and no one cares. Also, if you went and randomly asked 100 people what Competition Eliminator is, I doubt you'd find even one who could answer. Even though it's the premier class of sportsman racing. When I was in school, right after the civil war 9 out of ten guys could tell you who won modified eliminator at the U.S. Nationals.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

I still open trailer mine....and it gets plenty of attention on the highway LOL

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Interesting thread and my take on it is pretty broad but to me I see society as a whole hurting the sport. Now days with all the environmental issues and the soaring costs of fuel over the last 30 years has driven the interest away for a lot of people. Instead of a steady stream of muscle cars cruising down the highway we have economy cars and suv's with little distinction between every model. When I was in high school Vocational education and programs like Auto body repair and Auto mechanics thrived now days all the counselors are trying to steer all the good students to a college education and less physical work. Kids are sitting inside playing XBox, etc. instead of getting out and riding the bikes, go karts and mini bikes like I did when I was young. Noise issues, zoning and residence restrictions all add to the lessening of interest in cars as a whole. And until recently the factory's didn't really advertise performance vehicles such as the new performance cars by Chevy, Ford and Mopar. Very few local dealerships sponsor or promote racing like they did in the 60's and early
Auto racing as a whole has changed and weekly programs don't feature a lot of what they did 30-40 years ago. No pro's at points meets, NASCAR drivers with contracts that prevent them from running non Cup series races, etc. all diminish the allure of it. And as a whole, I think most racers do a less than stellar job of introducing new people into the racing scene. Enclosed trailers are probably a small part of it but as a whole I think the racing community hasn't adapted well to the overall changing lanscape of today's society. JMT.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Very interesting Thread. Open trailers kept the "Image" out there. Working on the cars in the motels too. Guys drove around Indy to see the show during the Nationals. All part of this image.
Self service gas hurt too. Guys always hung out at gas stations with their working buddies on Sat or Sunday. Played with the cars for fun as it was about nuts and bolts.
Today it is all about Computers....
I honestly believe the very thing many like about drag racing as a competitor in Stk and SS is killing it. Too many combinations, too many costs, too few SINGLE , identifiable Classes to be fired up about as a spectator.
The outside world watches for FASTEST, Loudest, Most publiczed racers and cars..
Hate to say it again but without a starting class to race as hero if you win near home NO new racers will attempt 100K Stockers or SS cars.
We all know a cheap starter class would be abused and cheating could result BUT get them in the door and they will come with friends to watch them be a winner or others will build to beat them...

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

You know, I went to a mudbog race in the spring, all the trucks were open trailered but there was only about a dozen. There was about 1-1500 people who all paid $25 per carload to go and sit on a grassy hill and watch the trucks go 50ft in the mud, get stuck and then wait 10-15 minutes for the truck to be pulled out. Another truck, 50ft, 15 minutes, repeat...this went on for 4hr's or so and everybody was buying fries/hamburg's etc having a great time. I thought it was a load of crap.
So..what was the difference?

Well, carload of people for X dollars?
Make it more of a carnival atmosphere?
All the action is directly in front of the people (100ft total?)

These same crowds were at the Exibition as well watching the demo derby. Personally I view them as "mouthbreathers" who watch with their mouths hanging open and yell "lookit that!" when there is some kind of destruction of damage.

Society isn't about cars anymore as was mentioned. Add to that the "reality tv" mentality and everybody wants to be entertained from their couch/seat/etc while stuffing crap down their yap. "hey lookit, bubba caught a fish...hey lookit, he built a birdhouse" whatever...dumbasses.

At the track this weekend a couple things I noticed were;
1) Lots of motorhomes/toterhomes/tractor trailers all enclosed trailers.
2) Even street cars are running in the 12's (or 11's, 10's, 9's)
3) Those who are racing are dedicated dragracers and they brought family with them, that's the only spectators.

I think people have X amount of money, some decide to spend it all on dragracing, others buy planes/boats/cottages. Dragracers are dragracing, there are just less people interested in watching automotive things in a world of instant gratification. Those that do want to watch it, are out watching what they want to watch.

So how do we make it more appealing to watch?

Everybody has already said lots of idea's from better promoting to hyping grudge matches and everything else.

1988, had one track to go to and it was stuffed with people/cars/fans. There was beer sponsorship (and they handed out beer sat night)
2014 there is 4 tracks in the same vicinity, all are quarter full and require the group of racers to travel to all four tracks for points. No beer or cig advertising allowed (which was huge money) so everything is a little tighter.

I've got 1 of my 2 kids into it and he will be for life, but he only replaces me. At least the cycle will continue...

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Good post Dick.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

You calling me a Dick?

Ohh, Dick Butler, got it...LOL!

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Ha! No, Dick Butler's post. Yours is also very true.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

I don't know about hurt the sport but I believe it hurt the spectator count at local races and possibly divisonals.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

My perspective. I am 35 years old and race 20+ weekends/year.

Money is the killer for participation with young people. Any NHRA class car which is reasonably competitive is $35,000 and has pretty high operating costs. As you know a top tier car is generally $70-80k.

The NHRA divisional format can also be dull for some. I recently competed at an event and there were 7 time runs before eliminations on Sunday. I much prefer to enter big bracket races where we have two time runs and then have 4 days of competition over 4 days.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

My point exactly. Create a class that discourages TOP CLASS MONEY. No prize money but trophy, plaque whatever. Banish cheaters to run Super gas whatever.
Make the car very basic, slapper bars, posi trac you name it but keep it ONE motor or ONE cubic inch or however its desired to make it heads up on drivers.... Many here started somewhere basic but the current classes, rules, options for factory cars have KILLED the incoming people off.
Lb/cubic inch, name the carb, name the headers, name the trans, name the tire size to limit breakage so posi would work.....get a Magazine to promote it like they did Jr. Stock years ago and stand back it will work.....

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Bingo.....

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

x2
With I-pods , I-pads , cell phones and computers , unlimited TV and a culture that isn't car- centric ..............todays kids are more interested in the glamor of traditional sports. Of course , these are all a "turnoff" to me but I'm getting old ( er ) :D.
My own son is a perfect example ( he has zero interest in my car )..............the way it was in the sixties / seventies isn't ever coming back.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

The elimination of Modified Eliminator, no Pros at Points Meets and a drop in local track PRO Match Racing dates to keep people interested didn't help things.

I think on a local level Mod drew people in and then they came to understand Stock and SS. There is nothing like the sound of a wheel standing gear jamming Mod car to get the juices flowing.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Discouragement innitiated by THE HEAD RULES put an end to many beginning class racers hopes, so they decided to drop out and it has been down hill since then. In the beginning you had to be an "insider" to get a set of illegal heads and willing to pay the price. Guys decided "whats the use" ???...... it was controlled by a mafia that couldn't talk about it out loud but laughed about it in private circles. They know who they are, some of them are still living, they are still laughing but now there is nobody left to play the game with.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Modified could be brought back today with affordable heads, and yes, we have the technology to police it. Tear downs could be made lots simpler, but you'd have to start at local tracks and get a base. Hell, I think I could spot an altered, or illegal head. But no, it will never happen.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

This is one of the best threads in a long time. Not negative just real opinions. It is kinda sad though. I hope there is a place in our future for a class type racing.

Kevin

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Now, this is just an opinion, so don't everybody bite my head off at once. In my opinion, if NHRA\IHRA were smart, they would start a divisional no break-out eliminator, with common sense rules to include most of what we have all shared here, and start slowly by having them booked for 4 or 5 appearances a year at different tracks in their division. This didn't happen over night, and will not be solved over night. They could start with 1 eliminator with 4 classes such as stock, modified stock, stock option, and super stock. Say Dart furnishes the spec head for one, AFR for another, RHS another, Brodix or World products another. Indexes would be fairly simple to set, in my opinion. Next eliminator, Econo Mod, Econo Altered, Econo Gas, Econo Hotrod, Econo Dragster, Econo Funny Car. Same thing. Designate, and include the manufacturer of the heads in each program. Start small, and let it grow. Would it? Who knows, but it includes basically all types of vehicles, and should stay relatively affordable. Have a racers board tech teardowns. Just my 2 cents.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

I have an open trailer for my wagon and I get my share of thumbs up but coming home after midnight from the races I also get my fare share of crazies. I've had people try to toss things into the windows(note to self, always roll up windows). I've seen drunks lean out of their cars and try to touch the side of my wagon at 60 plus MPH. I had two cars try to force me to exit and then followed me when I did exit so I drove to the police station which caused them to speed off. Attention to your race car isn't always an positive thing.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Randy, I agree as you know with the /b per cubic inch basic head rules you suggest but I suggest ONE class. Get it going like Modified and watch it expand participation. I bet week end local tracks could benefit from the "show" if they used it. I also think the bracket racers would love to see themselves in the spotlight and attempt to join the class.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Dick, I'd LOVE to have one heads-up class that fit my car perfectly. Trust me. That would be my dream. But naturally I'd want it to conform to the car I already have. That was my thoughts, that no eliminator will fit all cars wanting to go back to racing no break-out. If you do one class, you'd have to let just about any chassis combo in as long as they make weight. Which is fine with me, but don't know how it would go over. The reason I stated those 8 or nine classes in two eliminators was to include unmodified chassis on up. Was just a thought.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Yep...when I return home I always keep an eye on who or what's behind me and IF I suspect anything weird , like a follower, I have a plan for that. ( part of that plan includes continuing on past my house ).

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

there still are some S/SS racers using open trailers what makes a enclosed trailer so great ?

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Here is a question to ponder .

Ask a person on the street, HOW IS A RACE DECIDED ? DOES NOT HAVE TO BE CARS-----TWO PEOPLE RUNNING----ANY COMPETITION BETWEEN TWO OBJECTS GOING FROM POINT A TO POINT B.
THEIR ANSWER WILL BE---WHOEVER GETS THERE FIRST IS THE WINNER.


IN THE PRO CATEGORIES LIKE TOP FUEL / FUNNY CAR / PRO STOCK WHOEVER GETS TO FINISH FIRST------WINS !

SPORTSMAN RACING ---------NOT----OH, MAYBE ONCE IN A WHILE, BUT NOT THE NORM.

NHRA PLAYS TO THE SIMPLE. NO EXPLANATION NEEDED.

UNTIL SPORTSMAN RACING CAN OFFER SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEY CANNOT COMPETE WITH THE PROS. HEADS-UP RACING IS VERY EASY TO UNDERSTAND AND TO THE NEWCOMER BRINGING HIS FAMILY TO THE RACES, THATS WHAT THEY UNDERSTAND !!!

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Finespline good response.

Randy, How about one motor size and specification. Fit in class by chassis the racer has to use... Stock chassis with the motor at Xlb/cubic
SS chassis with motor at Y/lb /cubic inch
SG chassis with motor at Z lb / cubic inch

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

I do agree that you make a good point.

Here is an example of why it currently doesn't work.

Two G/SA cars are on the line racing Heads Up.First one to the finish line wins.One is a 1964 Dodge with an originally produced 365 horsepower rating.

The other is a 1970 Olds 442 with an originally produced 365 horsepower rating.

They leave the line and the Olds gets the hole shot,but the Dodge quickly pulls ahead by SEVERAL car lengths.

Many ask ...hey why is that old Olds so slow??

Upon further review,the Dodge crosses the scales at 3370 pounds with driver,and the Olds crosses the scales at 4075 with driver.


Over 700 pounds heavier to be in the same class with two engines that originally were rated by the factory with the same rating? Huh?

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

442, I understand exactly what you are saying but you are breaking it down to a sportsman racer thought process. The people in the stands see 2 cars , two different colors and root for whatever body style appeals to them.
You are looking at the technical side of race, that these people will never understand unless they really become hooked on sportsman racing. All they want is the car that appeals to them to win. Simplistic and easy to understand.These people are a long way off from indexes , ahfs, cic, breakouts. It clouds the picture when it casts doubt to what you observe.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Thinking out loud here guys and I don't have any sort of dog in this fight either....(so don't pound this old man too hard...L-O-L).

Maybe instead of a heads up spec head category, what you really might need is a heads up category with a sealed, spec, motor???


Wayne

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Instead of "dial in" numbers, go back to running off national records for your class. Everyone understood that. Even the spectators. It was pretty cool when a local guy could run the number or close to it. Made the difference in spot on the tree easy to explain to anyone. My blonde girlfriend even understood it "way back when". :D

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

What has killed drag racing is ..ALL YOU KEYBOARD RACERS...Get out and RACE,
Stop trying to change the world..Most of you guys don't class race WTF...Nothing in life is fair.. I race cause I enjoy it life is too short..Get out and race!!!

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

The Olds 455 heads flow as well as the 915 Dodge head if not better. The 455 has 30 cubes more, .032" more lift and the Quadrajet flows at least 200 CFM more than the little 426 AFB. Unlike the 426, the Olds 455 has no limit on valve to piston clearance and when combined with the 1/2" longer stroke, much more duration can be used than with the 426. They came from the factory with the same rating but they are worlds apart in HP potential. It looks like only the 442 convert will make it down to G at it's current rating.

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

And with just a 5 horsepower penalty,the Dodge gets Edelbrock Aluminum Heads which are NO better than 1964 technology?

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Dick, I agree with you. I'd say slapper bar cars are at say 9lbs. per cube start the class. Ladder bars add 50 lbs. 4 link cars add 50 lbs. let them all in. Slapper bars limited to 10.5", ladder bar 12.5" 4 link 13. 5.
What say you? Heads up, pro tree. Brodix spec head

Re: Part of what hurt drag racing
 

Maybe have cars 82 and newer add 50lbs. Just a thought.