Re: 2015 Rules
 

Gee, more classes !! Yeah... Hip hip hooray...

Re: 2015 Rules
 

There's not as many new classes added as one might think. Sticks and automatics are combined in Factory Stock, Factory Super Stock, and Factory GT classes.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Jeff
I think NHRA addressed the FSSGT issue before it grew. This year it is 5% but as the FSS HP's started to get hit there would have been cars jumping into traditional GT causing the same problem/complaining that has been around since the first Drag Pak cars. This way if they jump to FSSGT they can beat up on each other.
Just my guess.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

That's True Larry.

A lot of the FS Cars at Indy were running 1.2- 1.5 under that took up Most of the qualifying. Some Combo's should be lowered 2-3 tenths easy,
To Make It Fair !!!!!

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Too little, too late. If the indexes are not realistic it will only help in heads up runs no matter what letters are on the windows .Cars that are not subject to the AHFS and those that require a chute do not belong in stock. Rick.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

After reading your post, maybe I was being a little narrow minded, I just assumed the aftermarket casting would have to be based off of OEM parts. The LS cast iron was not legal before this rule change? As for N351 not competing...Mr. Perno Must have made the Chevy guys nervous...lol.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Regulating 5% of the population with sweeping changes sounds like Washington DC. I mean c'mon, even the whiners were not complaining in SS. Almost all the old cars/new motors are Mopars. There are about 5 68 Cuda/Dart that have found new life from the unregulated SS/AH. Throw in my 70 Duster(which has never won class), Nowicki, and a couple of others and this was an Anti Mopar rule. The numbers don't lie. The sole purpose of the 360 in the DPs in 2009 was to give Mopar racers somewhat access to new parts and lower the cost of SS for the SB Mopar. So much for that. I don't think it was broken, but I am not a smart man.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Kidding, right Jeff?

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Thank you NHRA, it looks like we should be back for 2015.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Wanna make it fair for qualifying? The only race it's an issue at is Indy. Make it all run 150 car field, with 5 alternates (if someone wants to make the trip and hope for breakage or whatever).That goes for Stock and Super Stock. It's so easy even a cave man can figger it out.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

So does this mean that the FS cars will be regulated by the AHFS?

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Kidding about what?

Re: 2015 Rules
 

heck no, you got 23 other NHRA events like that. Keep Indy the way it is 180 entries 128 qualifieds. The Gators use to be a class event for stock and superstock, get it fired up again.

Ernie Neal
SS354

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Picking on the MOPAR guys. Ford & GM both have new engines out for lower classes. Just not a lot running yet.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Ed, just saying, sweeping regulations for 5% of the cars and making all those new classes make no sense. Need a little more purpose than that. It just so happens that almost all the cars affected are Mopars. And having all the new classes combine Stick and Auto and not the regular classes is not real equitable. However I assume the HP factors will remain the same in both Stock and Super Stock. I'm just not sure having two identical cars except for the transmission at different weights is parity. On that note, I really have respect for the 3 pedal guys. That thing is a real chore. I didn't know SS was broken.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Personally think the rule change in CS sucks.

Best runs ever (as far as I know off the top of my head, correct if wrong)

9.26 - Mans - Chevy
9.27 - Perno - Ford
9.28 - Bogner - Mopar

Will there be a list of accepted heads?

Same thing happened in A/ND, one brand (chevy) with a 14 degree head can go to 300 CC and flow more than 400 cfm.

This made Ford and Mopar obsolete in the class, WTF, had great parity and now only Chevy!

If anyone knows a Ford or Mopar head that can compete with this, I am in the Market.

http://www.racingjunk.com/Heads/1851...-400-CFM-.html

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Jeff, there were a few similarly underfactored Cobra Jet combos in GT as well.
And regarding the old cars with new engines, that was never the intent of GT anyway.

All that being said, I wouldn't have cared in the least if the new engines were factored properly, or 'got factored' properly in a reasonable amount of time. Since they were not, and still haven't been, I'm quite glad to see them in their own class.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Jeff, if you had a seriously thrashed car that suddenly could not run within a couple of tenths heads up against a new car that just got put together, you would think it was broken. I'm sure, from your view, everything was fine. :-)
Lloyd told me how fast his 360" DP could go in SS/IA, not hard to calculate what it could go if dropped down in SS/JA, and I would have to spot him 40 lbs. Just about everybody I know feels like the 360" is the absolute softest deal out there. I saw the specs on the new 5.0L CJ also. Looks even worse. Or, better. Depends on if you own one. LOL
If they were just rated kinds close to begin with.....
Probably a lot cheaper for me if they had left things alone. Guess I'll go one more year.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Based on how fast the showdown cars went in Vegas, an altitude adjusted track. it looks to me that a .6 second reduction in index for FS/A and FS/B would be correct. That would bring the winners of FS/A and FS/B to about -.95 under. So if they work on there cars this winter.... the good ones will be -1.05 under at Indy.

We will all be disappointed if the indexes are so soft that all of the byes will go to all of the 2008 and up FS cars.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Larry, to keep their race sponsors happy, you can bet the indexes will be at least as soft as they are now. About all we will gain is no heads ups with them.


If I hit the Powerball, I'm still going to fix that 360". LOL!!

Re: 2015 Rules
 

GT was specifically created for new cars with old motors including the jelly bean fwd conversions. After a few years and many requests, NHRA allowed the old cars with not matching motors in. I was asked to write a letter just because they needed a letter from someone, anyone. But what better car than a SS/AH that has just been priced out of the market to find new life in GT. They are pretty good, but no better than other combos. Time will tell, but it's still just 5% of the cars.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

When Indy opens up with a limit of 150 entries in S/S and I enter, I figure that I might have a chance of getting in as an alternate. Then NHRA jumps it up to 160 - 170 -180 there is no way of me racing. Sure, you can withdraw at that point, but NHRA still keeps your entry fee and will credit it forward, but "No Refunds" at that point. If they will allow 180 entries, then they should list it from the beginning and you can take your chances. For the amount you invest to travel and enter, it should be an "All Run" field. Plus, when the fastest hemi car on the grounds qualifies 100th in the field, (100 721 SS/AH Rick Houser, Pasadena CA, '68 Barracuda 8.493 9.30 -0.807) time for an adjustment on the index. Dyno

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Very accurate statement Ed.

360" DP, 11.4 CR, 2.02/1.6 valves, 4x1.75" throttle body... rated 275 HP...

Throw in there the 352 CJ..... 11.25 CR, 2.08/1.6 valves, 4x1.75" TB.... rated 285HP

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Jeff, the easiest thing would have been to take a look at the specs, and give them a more realistic hp rating going in. Ray Chareles, in his present condition, could compare the specs to known engines, and say "Are you kidding?"

Re: 2015 Rules
 

SS/CS Heads,
I talked with Bruce this afternoon, he told me that presently only two heads are approved ( both from Dart for the chevy), one is a 180 cc, the scary one is the 230cc 308 cfm head as cast. I got the feeling that just any iron heads wont be the deal. But they needed to have something to help the Chevrolet guys as they were cracking heads in short order. Knowing what these engines can break, I would not wish that on anybody. While I am concerned we all know that port volume or cfm do not only make the HP, I have worked an awful lot of stuff to find .07 over the year, so I cant imagine we will be obsolete, YET. Bruce and the NHRA seem to be aware of how touchy this is. The good thing is that there should be more trying out the SS/CS water, I can attest to the warmth (DAMN near boiling!). My biggest fear is that the class dwindles to 5 or 6 cars then gets written off.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

OK, I guess mine just ain't as good as everyone else's. I think I will change to something better next year. I want one of them LT1 motors like Ricky Decker or Ed Wright got. According to the world famous Nitro Joe, that thing is pretty good.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

The 360" heads are bigger, and on the same flow bench the intake ports flow over 40 cfm more with more compression plus over 300 cfm more throttle body and 10 more cubic inches, rated 4 Hp less. If I could not take all that and blow an LT1 away heads up I would go shoot myself.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Ashton,

Guess I got your blood pumping with that text this morning! Maybe I need to build a CS engine. ��

Re: 2015 Rules
 

The new rule change is for any aftermarket inline cast iron cylinder, not OEM based. I learned about the proposed rule change from a cylinder head porter that was doing a set of LS type GM heads, although they were only available in trucks and not cars. I spoke directly to NHRA last year and they confirmed they had approved the LS cast iron head and were considering allowing any aftermarket cast iron head, which just happened.

This does not have anything to do with Vince Perno; this was proposed last year.

If you have never seen the ProAction Chevy based cylinder head, you will have a rude awakening. With the ProAction 14 degree head, there is not a Ford or Mopar that will be able to win a heads up. The head is available up to a 300cc runner volume and they will flow 400+ CFM's.

The heads hold records in the Nostalgia classes.

Just take a look at the head:

http://www.speierracingheads.com/sp1.jpg

http://www.speierracingheads.com/sp7.jpg

http://www.speierracingheads.com/sp8.jpg

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Vince, I was told a complete different story and that ANY aftermarket cast iron head will be allowed. Was also told that the GM LS cast iron 1999-2000, 6.0L,OEM truck 873 casting cylinder head was approved. This cast iron head, untouched, already has 210cc intake runner volume with a 2.0" intake valve. Add bigger valves and some extensive porting, they will flow 360+ CFM's.

If any of the Ford racers are interested, I know were a pair of brand new untouched RHS Ford, 20 degree cast iron cylinder heads with 225cc intake volume heads and 57cc chambers, are located.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Shifting gears from the Pro Stock Stockers..............

After 15 years of lobbying NHRA for head studs they finally did it......

No more Heli-Coils in 40 year old blocks.......

Thanks to NHRA...Better late than never........

Bob

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Jeff, so I read it wrong I guess. So now you if you run your challenger in GT: its FGT/H instead of GT/HA......and Beards 80 Volare, and Southards 74 duster are now not in GT/HA either but in your class? FGT/H That doesn't sound right.....

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Head studs and aluminum radiators I think are long overdue.

New car classes I think will be bad for the sport. As if Stock racing wasn't confusing enough let's add even more classes to ensure we won't get new fans.

The vast majority of new cars were already in their own classes, AAA, AA, BB. Even those in CC were really all new cars. In 2008 before the new cars the 7.5lbs class had two cars so it's not like the new cars ran all the old ones out of CC. Among the rest of the new cars there's maybe 20 spread out over maybe 5 classes?

The reality is that new cars now have fewer options than old cars. So we lose some new car customers. But they aren't going to build an old car, they just won't come to NHRA.
many of the new car combos there are only a handful of them, they now will not have a class to race and get dumped in a combo. Many of the old cars will suffer the same fate by the new cars moving out, especially in stick classes. Then you can run Larry Hill's pickup and Gary Summers mustang ii, who run way faster than the new cars anyway. Remember class finals in A, B, E, and G stick were old v. New at Indy this year. The A stick new car winner didn't even go -1.00 so you can't tell me he's destroying the class. The B loser was an older car that slowed in the final, earlier performance would have won over the new car.

If there is a benefit for anyone I guess the A B C class guys will no longer have the Copos to run with. Congrats. Even that is debatable as an old car beat a new car in C/SA at Indy which was a ten car field. The B & C auto winning Copo 396 took on major hp to win and will not be as competitive next time. If you don't think AHFS works look at the 5.7 Hemi auto rating.

If I was an older car I would be very concerned that the sponsors including contingency will start posting only in the new car classes. The factories and racers are spending money and getting visibility from PRI booths, to magazine stories, to Facebook pages. If you sold windows would you promote the customer who just bought brand new latest technology windows or the customer who bought windows 20 years ago that you don't make anymore? I know someone will post something like "the old window guy because it shows durability" which is novel but not the reality.

To all the posters on this thread that act like this is the greatest thing I wonder what you think got fixed, if you have actually raced against the new cars (are you currently racing at all), and if the end result will be what you want. NHRA has driven a stake between old and new with this move and the result could really hurt the old car racers.

And btw it doesn't address at all the soft index or no AHFS for the showdown events! Will those still happen?

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it!

These rules are a lose-lose for everyone. I am just a fan but if I were a racer I'd be prepared for less money, racers going elsewhere leaving smaller fields, and fewer fans. That's my crystal ball at least.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Its VENICE,

The rule does not say ANY, it says aftermarket, and I specifically asked about rolled over and Australian pro action stuff when I talked with Bruce. That is not the intent. NHRA always has to have something aftermarket on the approved list, so far there are only two. My only concern is that as a class competitor we were not asked our opinion. Nonetheless it would not be wise to start a cylinder head program for one of these cars without making sure the castings are legit. There is no proof that either of those heads are going to ruin my combo, and if it makes more people think they can do it easier I am all for that. I will take Bruce on his word before i would build an engine on hearsay. DO YOU run CS? If so you should put your name on your posts. I am sure Bogner, Menard (RWR). Hudson, Antonette, Mans, Groves et-al ( sorry if I missed anyone) know what it takes to go fast in this class. The heads are just one piece of the puzzle. Its really easy to put one of these together, bring it on out!

Re: 2015 Rules
 

So, if a car running in one of the FS classes is the only one in their class at a National event where class wins are contested, will they be folded into the combo with non FS stock eliminator cars or will FS cars have their own combo?

Re: 2015 Rules
 

My APOLOGIES for misspelling your name, Venice.

If they are the only two approved cylinder heads for the GM brand, then NHRA has to publish it. Too many times I have been told by NHRA to go ahead and proceed to do a change even when I have been given a written approval just to be rescinded months later. Therefore, unless it is on the approved list, there are no guarantees.

As a matter of fact, I proposed the RHS/Pro Action cylinder heads for the Ford application as an alternate cylinder head. I submitted all the technical data, pictures and even offered to bring a head to a race. After awaiting for a response for a full year, I just gave up.

As regards to running SS/CS, I was going to run in the class. Nevertheless, since I already had knowledge of the upcoming rule and it will eventually be an exercise in futility, the car is being built to run in Comp Eliminator Super Modified with D3 cylinder heads.

As regards to the LS cast iron cylinder head, it will outflow the N351 and it is an OEM cylinder head according to NHRA.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Mr. (or Mrs.) FS FAN,

Be careful what we wish for? You are right. I should continue to show up at the track and get my doors blown off week in and week out by a new car. Yep, good idea. Let the new cars win and guys with an old car, go be a duck a smile. Hey, 1 out of a 100 times an old car will win, look at this one race at indy!

Thank you NHRA! I really don't care if I can no longer qualify at Indy, at least I can race again.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

EZ, Now, Randall :)

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Eric yes Beard's car will now be in FGT/H. Because it has a new 360 engine combo. I texted Mike yesterday and said how's it feel to run with the big boys now lol.......Just having fun with Mike he took it in stride.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

That will be a nice piece