Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Now that's what drag racing is supposed to be!!!!


Since my back ground is heads up racing, I'm in the similar boat as the earlier poster. Not being a smartbutt, just looking for someone to explain the issue to me. Other than qualifying, how does this affect anything else within the eliminator? I can understand the issue if the new cars and old cars are in the same class and they are paired up, if the new car has an advantage. That could easily be fixed with weight though, correct? Otherwise, I don't understand the issue, since the rest is just bracket racing. Someone please explain what I'm missing that seems to be upsetting so many people.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

xxx

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Ok, I'm still lost, because I fail to see how it affects the outcome of the race. If all of the FSS cars are not affected, and the older cars are not having to run heads up against them, what difference does it make?
In other words, the way I understand it, is the FSS cars can run all out, without penalty against each other. But when they move into regular. eliminations, doesn't it once again, just become a bracket race? At that point I don't see any disadvantage for the older cars.
Again, I really don't understand what the issue is, unless it was a heads up race with no break out in affect. Otherwise, why does it matter?
I actually see it as an advantage for the older cars, because the new combos will be forced to show their hand much sooner and run all out, instead of hiding behind a soft index.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Tony - What you are not seeing is the agendas of some that are being clouded by all the testosarone flying around the fact that they want to qualify higher than everyone else ......Hope this clears things up for you.And you are right - once first round begins its a bracket race for the most part .

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

xxx

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

THIS IS THE ORIGINAL POST......
I think some of us got off topic...

Indy, of course that would be the 1.

Let 'em all hang out, No Penalty.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

I hoped there was more too it than just that, but after reading Mr. Carr's last statement, I tend to agree with you. I thought there was a real agenda I was missing, that gave the FSS cars an unfair advantage against the older cars that would allow them an easier chance to win the race. So, truthfully, other than qualifying, (for a bracket race), it doesn't affect anything.
I personally think Stock and Super Stock would be a much better, more exciting class if everyone ran off of their index, with no breakout in affect. That would end this argument anyway, lol

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Jack.thanks for clearing things up.

Back to original question, one of the things I like about NHRA is they try to be fair, yeah I know, going to get killed on that comment. My opinion is you cannot have it both ways, if you are going to run a special race, it should not count toward qualifying. If it counts toward qualifying then it should follow the same AHFS rules

You want to really mess things up, your qualifying time is your dial in for race day.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

[QUOTE=rognelson777;466067] My opinion is you cannot have it both ways, if you are going to run a special race, it should not count toward qualifying. If it counts toward qualifying then it should follow the same AHFS rules[/QUOTE/]

Hey! You got it! Give that man a cigar!

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

It's that "for the most part" that can jump up and bite you when you least expect it or can afford it. It's also the reason that we need the AHFS to be in affect for EVERY one in Stock Eliminator at EVERY National Event.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Still going to have people playing the game and sandbagging. Doesn't matter if the AHFS was in place or not. Guys play the qualifying game to line up their opponents for the elimination rounds. There are cars that could easily run 1.2+ under and choose not to for multiple reasons.

Again I would vote for index being national record. Bonus points and money for setting a national record would entice more people to run for it. heads up all the time. Downside cost would skyrocket.

In another class your dial in was your quickest qualifying time minus a 10th. Qualifying order was reaction time.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

When you say "entice more people to run for it" you mean all 12 guys that would be left running Stock Eliminator right?

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

There is an agenda here and from replies & lack of it is obvious to any Stock / Superstock racer or student of class racing who understands AHFS and the concept of a level playing field.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

The agenda here is for all the cars that use to dominate their classes are now getting there butts whipped and its not fun. They cant sandbag no more and that aint fair. I am pretty sure most of the guys that have these new cars once raced an older car and most likely got their butts handed to them a couple times to many. So they went out and build combinations that were in the NHRA Rulebook, that's a big key, and started returning the butt whippings. All new cars are in the rule book according to NHRA so instead of beating this forum beat NHRA with emails. ;)

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Back on the original thread topic.

I just sent a respectful request to my division tech director asking NHRA to consider running a national event without the AHFS in effect.

I am not sure of the chain of command, but I believe it should start at the division level first. Then maybe the div. director can submit the idea to Glendora.

I believe If enough people sent similar letters or e-mails, then maybe NHRA would listen and possibly even consider the idea.

If anyone wants a copy of what I sent to use as a guideline, I can p.m. or e-mail it to you.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Respectfully Joseph
What part of "your dragpack when entered in the shootout can qualify and race against 'old cars' in the regular eliminator without AHFS is not a level palying field" cannot you understand? :rolleyes:

Without fear of HP or needing to protect your combination if both triggers have been hit, the danger you may hit it or go 1.20 under will alter where you would be qualified and how the ladder would fall. You would think a savy racer such as yourself would find that something to exploit if not there is a bridge about 15 miles from where I sit you need to own. Either you've got more money than brains orrrrrrr there is an agenda......... ;)

Alan
Would suggest there be no additional events without AHFS. Agree it would be pretty cool at Indy but this discussion would not be if shootout cars were kept separate.
All current events under AHFS should have all entries in regular qualifying and eliminators run on a level playing field under the same rules.
We have national opens where you can let it hang out without fear.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

I guess the part that I am running a car that is legal within the rules of the organization I enter it in. Not one new car guy disagrees with the old cars but as it is we will run where we fit best. We did not write the rules we simply follow them. ;)

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

So I take that comment as you agree there is an advantage for the "Shootout" cars.
A currently legal advantage and yes you are racing within the rules obviously :eek: That there is the issue :D

My posts have been meant to bring to attention the "specific" discrepancy in the rules favoring the "Shootout" cars. It isn't the old cars vs. the new here we all race together and should be under the same rules.
Actually by playin around with Bruce and the banter here shows a bit of a smug attitude by yall as well as a being bit elitist like a typical liberal would in a similar situation.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

I am merely stating that we looked at the best combination when building our cars as everyone else did at the time they built theirs. Ours just happen to be post 1970's. Why would we build a car that did not have an advantage..?

The smug you are referring about must be the southern in my voice! Lmbo!
Liberal..nah.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Mr. Signman,
I agree that this isn't a "new" car vs. "old car" issue. But I must ask, why are sticks & autos combined in the new classes but not the old classes? Not to mention, the stick indexes were used which resulted in most all autos taking a substantial hit to their index. Should all stock and super stock classes be combined the same way?

I'm good with the rule as long as everyone is subject to the same rules. Equality for all, right? Maybe this can be corrected too?

Nick Morris
FGT/F

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

I still really don't see the advantage they have when it comes time for eliminations.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Isn't Class a race within a race?


If your in the eliminator AHFS applies to all, to be fair.


Maybe this will help some understand: Indy is a qualified field of 128 out of 200, so 72 racers don't make the race. Reasons the 72 don't qualify: 1 breakage, 2 missed clutch, car set up and or tune, 3 ink (Read too much horsepower adjustment over the life of the combination). Its the FS/X's ability to miss the ink, that is the smelly end of the stick that everyone including the other new cars who run the natural class dislikes. It will take some time for the AHFS to get them close to where FS/X's need to be, but it will get them. It won't take long to settle them down to where they will be like the rest of us hoping that this last qualifying run will get them in "The Show". 4.5% of 500 hp. is 22.5 hp. or 157lbs in a 7# class.


If you are not the lead dog the view never changes!!!!


Back to work on my combo.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Tony who gets the first bye, second bye and so on: the FS/X cars.


I wish you would have used a different play on words.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Joseph
Best Wishes to You.

Mr Morris
My interest in this is a level playing field for all.
This effects me in a small way so am speaking up.
Don't think stick and auto should be combined. If it's unfair to the new cars start a conversation and I will support you.

Mr Corley
If we understand how qualifying and ladder system works there are advantages:
Qualify No.1 will earn you a first or second round bye.
Beiing able to sit at the top or bottom of qualifying able to play the ladder at will can have its advantages avoiding headsups, touigh pairings and friends.

Be well gentlemen!

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Well, that's an unfortunate way to describe yourself simply because you are unable to understand that if there are 3 bye runs, the top 3 cars get first shot at them. That's how it effects the eliminator. They are stealing bye runs, and in their minds they are doing nothing wrong. Its kinda like that lady who parks in the Handicapped spot, and then pays for all of her food (steak, shrimp and all the good stuff) with food stamps and makes a separate transaction for all of her alcohol. Sure, she is playing by the rules, but I have zero respect for a person like that. She sees no problem, screw everybody else, why don't they just do what she does if its such an advantage?......... I would say, because I'm better than that.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

It doesn't matter what any of the rules are. There will ALWAYS be someone screaming foul and injustice.

Some people compete by racing their cars and some people compete by lobbying the rules. There is always a political side to it. Actually the NHRA seems less politically corrupt then other series I've been evolved in.

Then there are guys that complain about anything and everything. Win a million dollars off a 10$ scratch off ticket and complain about paying taxes on it.(not that anyone enjoys paying our own tax burden)

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Now that someone finally explained that it's not an "all run" field, at least that part makes sense now. When I asked the reasoning earlier, the answers, although some being condescending, were totally useless in shedding light on the issues caused. I thought it was an all run field, so qualifying order didn't seem to matter.


Thanks for the ones that took time to give a reasonable explanation.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Nevermind, politically incorrect humor seems to be losing it's appeal these days.


Sorry if I offended anyone. I'll change my original post. Can't help the quotes though. If they find it offensive, they can change it.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Tony, the only National Event that is not an "all run" field is Indy; the quota is 200 for both Stock and Super Stock, and 128 cars qualify for each category. Every other National event is "all run" because the quotas are all less than 128.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Thanks Superfan. As I said, I can understand there being an issue if it affects getting in the field, or even bye runs, for that matter.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

I do speak slow.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Lol, I'm from the south also, so defiantly speak slow. Like I said, wasn"t trying to offend anyone, just meant to inject some humor with the play on words.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

At Indy 200 entries qualify for a 128 car field.
All other National Events 128 car entries qualify for 128 car field or what ever limit NHRA puts on entries for that particular event.
All entries qualify and are paired on a ladder for eliminations.
At division events there is a 128 qualified field with pairing and ladder if there are 130 entries 2 may not race.

The definition of the term "All Run": A Bracket Race. No limit to entries all entries run the eliminator, no qualifying sheet, no pairing, no ladder for eliminations. All entries are called to staging lanes drivers choose left or right lane for random pairing who you roll up next to is your opponent.

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

Looks like NHRA might be actually listening ??

http://www.nhraracer.com/content/gen...748&zoneid=132

Re: If you could run a National event without the AHFS in pl
 

It doesn't affect most people, so there will never be any support for those of us who are. That is just one of several examples of unequal application of the rules. NHRA chose to repeatedly ignore questions, and then talked down to me. I choose to no longer spend my money with them.