Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Originally Posted by rod butcher http://classracer.com/classforum/ima...s/viewpost.gif
Allen is correct in his pricing. I think if I was offered $25000. for my motor I would pass.

Rod Butcher




LOL
Mine too...


Mike A114
P/SA

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

I would have to agree that the car is well worth the money even without a engine. If I had a need for it I would not hesitate to jump in knowing what it takes to get one rolling. ;)

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

I wasn't busting up on you either! What I was saying was he wanted to know how much to make what he has competitive, my thoughts on competitive are apparently different than some others up here saying he needs a 20k motor. I know you were just pricing what they were talking about. I still believe the car can be pretty good for another 5 or 6 grand so it's a great but at 9k. As you said, I know what it cost to build good roller and 9k won't come close.

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Allen and Cooter, it wasn't yall. Most of yall were actually offering advise but, He knows who he is and I won't call him out. Yes you are all correct it would need a 20k motor to run with Butcher and I am still not sure it would help. I have a lot of respect for the work they have done and they have found something. But unless you get a headsup run it is still a bracket race. Play the ladder, change classes, etc. That stuff and the real guys at the track you get to hang with is what makes it fun. I hope Dustin buys it but in the end I don't have to sale it. I was hoping to make someone a good deal so it didn't sit around as we have plenty of cars to work on and have more stockers already.

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

One more and I am done I promise. Anybody that doesn't think the wrong ring combo or pistons won't keep a stocker from running very well is a complete jack**s. OH and btw....Thanks Mark for the good words.

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Dustin423k,

I have to agree with Greg, Mark ,Johnny, Allen & the rest of the real racers
on this car being a very good deal ... As Mark said Jamie & his family
are stand-up racers and you won't find better people to deal with .. Jamie was up front and told you what's wrong with the engine ? It's not like he is asking 15-16K for this car ? It's well worth $9,500 just in good pieces , so I agree buy it go have fun... You could just have it honed & new rings and it would run 4-5 under or spend more if you have it ?
Get in you well love Racing Stock, don't listen to all the BS ... Enjoy It...

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

It's a fair price for a good car that with some work can be competitive.

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

My name is Bob Fowkes I bought Drew Whalens 1985 camaro two and half years ago and have had a blast. Its not fast but i am working on it. My advise buy the car. Bob

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Glad to hear you like it Bob!

Like others have said, for the money it isn't a bad buy at all. The 3rd gen F bodies are a good place to start in stock.

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Buy it and come join in the fun!

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

It's a good deal. Do you want to run 2-3 tenths under or 1 second under? If the answer is 1 second under get out the check book its gonna be expensive. If you just want to get in the game then its a good deal.
Now if you're interested I have a P/SA Cutlass 7-8 under for $14,000

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

And members talk and complain about the new stockers from the factory.
Dart Block
Top Notch Heads and IntakeI
Roller rockers
Tool Steel Lifters
Manley Pro I Beam Rods
High Dollar Pistons
Wow,these parts cost over $15,000?

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Not the cost or parts in the new cars, it's the bogus low hp factors.

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

And then some, if you're trying to run up front.

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

There is no way those parts cost 15,000 for a small block Chevy. The block is around $1300, the rods about $600, pistons and rings $1200, roller rockers $300, don't know about tool steel lifters, we run Smith lifters which are around $700. That adds up to $3700 before the heads and intake. Let's allow $4300 for the heads and intake from Top Notch. Looks like 8k to me. I realize it takes more parts than that, cam, bearings, gaskets, oil pump, and assorted others. I bet you I could get an good engine builder I happen to know well to build a 1.10 under 305 for 12k with some really good stuff and would go right through tear down.

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

The next tenth is 10K at least if you already have the rest of the car sorted out.

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Not gonna get in a pissing match on here but here's the break down on parts cost:
Dart block all done, bored, honed, lifter bushed and race ready is $2500
Top notch heads and intake with valves, springs, head studs and guide plates $5000
Tool steel lifters top notch dlc coated from trend $1100
Roller rockers from comp, ultra pro magnum $500+
Metric ring set with ring spacers (best stuff) $1375
Manley pro I beam rods $1175
Cp stocker pistons $800-1000
Good crank is gonna run you $1000

And you still haven't bought pushrods, gaskets, timing set, bearings, timing cover, oil pan, carb, and all the little accesories. I build these for a living and buy the parts on a daily basis so I kinda know what it costs...and I also can gurantee mine will go "right through tear down" also...

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Wow! My little spare parts 6k motor is looking better all the time lol. Don't run too bad either.

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

roller rockers from comp
Double that if you opt for the big studs, and install adjusters in the rockers...triple it if you can't do it yourself.....and I am jus talking about the rockers

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Wow. Definitely not the Stock Eliminator I was attracted to in the 70's!

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Although its a completely different sport, I'd like to share a line from Robert Duvall from the movie "Day's of Thunder". "There's nothing stock about a stock car"

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

"Stock is not Stock" Gerry Stein

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Chris and frank those are both funny and true statements...lol...I've been racing stock over 20 years now and my dad raced since the 60's and we constantly have a conversation about how drastic the rules have changed even just in the last 6 years, much less how different it was when you had to have the stock valve spring height and pressures, stock cam durations and overlap and such...evolution is reality as far as this all goes...

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Allen - From your experience with these engines what would be the minimum work involved in getting one to say middle of the road performance with today's standards?

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Why do heads and intake cost $5,000?
Thanks,David

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Rich, depends on what all parts you have in place already of course, but let's say you wanted to start from scratch and build a complete motor, carb to pan, to be a middle of the road piece, I think you're still gonna spend in the 6000-8000 range for parts...and that would be buying some parts either used or second hand new stuff...and David it's no secret that there's port work being done on the really fast stuff, that's why NHRA incorporated the runner volume rules at the same dimensions as super stock, hence that's why the cost is $5000...but for a break down here's where the price comes from, a good set of heads and intake is gonna be $3500 then you're gonna have about $500 in the good valves, another $750 in the right springs retainers and locks, and another $250 in studs and guide plates. I may be off $25-50 bucks on a couple prices but $5000 is a close estimate. It costs to run at the front of the pack, always has been that way and it always will, just the nature of our sport...and rich if you're asking just what work needs to be done I think at minimum you need a quality block, good pistons and a good ring package, and you can probably get some 5-7 year old heads off someone and it'll put you in the middle of the pack...just my opinion of course

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Could not have put it any better !:eek::eek:

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Jamie,
Your car is a steal at 9 grand. It is worth that rolling chassis IMHO. I wish you guys stayed with the Camaro but I'm sure getting your dad's car back on the track will be special. Best of luck.

rod

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

So, without the latest/greatest head work what would one expect with the rest of the package in order? In other words, how much are the fully prepped heads really worth?

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

16 new .375/.325 deep valve seats and proper valve job will really wake some castings up....some more than others


without porting, acid, or any cover up work you got yourself a set of 325+ cfm STOCK castings from one particular manufacture (and let me be clear WITH NO PORTING) other results from other makes will not be as good


replacing seats has been in the rule book as long as I can remember.


run them numbers thru your favorite internet calculator and you will see what kind of power can be made


The cheating bastards doing cover up work are not using that head as far as I know though


let the sh*_ storm begin:eek:

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

I saw the add also and I have to agree, this is a Steal with a capital S. I have about $15k in my stocker with no paint or fuel,brakes lines etc. I have a Bud Rowe motor(used of course for $5k and I stole that one, i guess someone wanted a new racer in stock so decided to sell me their spare engine as a gift, we dyno'd the engine and wow! did they ever give us a good engine. I should have bought a complete racer because I would be racing it now. This car looks like a deal. Claude Ruel.

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

For those who ask why it costs what it costs:


You have to understand that if you're buying a set of top of the line heads, part of what you're paying for is the experience and knowledge of the guy doing them. For example, I pay Jimmy and Chris at Bridges Performance for Jimmy's 50+ years of experience plus the years of experience Chris brings to the equation. Not to mention the fact that there's well over 40 hours of work in a set of Stock heads if you start with a pair of bare old used castings. So yeah, you're going to pay $5K or more for a set of heads.

The same thing applies to engine builders. You pay guys such as Darrell Wikle, Jeff Taylor, Brian Tilburg, Bobby Warren, Gary McGlasson, and Steve Ficacci as much for what they know as you pay them for what they do.

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Not so much the cost as I understand that part. I was just wondering how much performance gain from head work alone (ballpark figure).

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Rich, the only honest answer is "it depends", on how good the heads you have are, on how able your short block is to take advantage of them, and on what else you have to make them work. If the heads are the only thing holding you back, you have a true low budget set, and you get a top notch set, they could be worth 2 tenths or more.

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

A set of top of the line heads and intake is worth a BUNCH!!! It's not about porting more than proper air flow. You can't just hog them out and expect them to run. It is all about how to get the most air through them the most efficient way. I would say a #1 set with matched intake should be worth around at least 40hp and that should be 3-4 tenths or so. What people fail to remember is .60 under today is .90 under a couple years ago. So builders had to work really hard to overcome that .3 deficit that NHRA handed out.

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Still in the market for a car.

Legend, thanks but I really want something that will run G-I.

Johnny Rod -" Wow !!!!!!!!!! is all I can say. You guy's are a bunch of negative jerk off's . This is why we don't have any new racers in our class I read all the posts It would scare anyone away. That's not how to build our class. My advise!!!! Buy the car looks like a great deal . And surround your self with positive racers and have fun. And stop asking advice from keyboard racers." Noted and looks like fun. I will have something at the track soon with shoe polish in hand and a weather station, it's just a bracket race until your draw the wrong guy right!??

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

G/H/I is a rough place to be. thats where my car falls.. Just dont worry about trying to spend what everyone else does.. Go race and have fun..

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Dustin, don't be discouraged. I think the car is a good deal. In D4 you should be able to move around and learn how to dodge the fast guys. You will generally have 1 or 2 fast ones in each class.

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

Dustin I sent you a pm. Good luck

Re: New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??
 

I will say this the people you are dealing are straight up could not a nicer family to deal with biggg