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-   -   Why Class racing dies slowly (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=58824)

Rich67stang 07-21-2015 01:24 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
IMO, I think there are more races held now, between Sanctioning bodies, Associations and individual events, there are only so many races that can be attended by a Class racer with the expenses stated previously. Racers choose according to Distance and payout. When does class racing become too diluted with races to sustain large car counts?

Dwight Southerland 07-21-2015 02:50 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Rich -
You have pointed out a very valid point of analysis. The "scaling" that was attractive and an incentive in earlier days is not much of a factor now. There is surely a homeostasis that has become a major factor in analyzing attendance.

Randall Klein 07-21-2015 04:48 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
One factor not mentioned is the old fun meter. The addition of classes, not to mention draggin bagger!!,snow mobiles, TS TD, makes a looong day for class racers, usually a time trial mid morning, then a second at 6 or 7 if lucky.

Get an oildown or rain and we have been at the track at times from 7AM to 11PM, hard to invite friends and have them sit around 10+ hours

When Topeka first opened, I remember SS TT on Sunday mornings!, kinda felt like part of the event. 3-4 TimeTrials, Class, Teardown, spread over 4 days, now one can be loaded up and on the way home Friday mornings for those weekend "honey-do" projects one was trying to avoid.

For me, gas between 2 &3.85, and race gas costs, motel bills are not keeping my 100K+ operation at home

Jeff Teuton 07-21-2015 05:33 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Randall, I always value your opinion and most others as well. I know Pure Stock has been tossed around a while, maybe? These cars in Stock and Super Stock are so far out from where we started, maybe we need to start again? Cost to race is not for the light hearted. Maybe that is why all the old guys. I think they call it 'prime earning years'. Today I think the popular is 'long easy payments' and '11 second dead stock cars'. I miss the old days of winning class to run the eliminator. Love that wagon.

Bobby Fazio 07-22-2015 07:45 AM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
It won't die, it will grow if you sign and share this:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/n...rtsmancoverage

Billy Nees 07-22-2015 08:26 AM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton (Post 477135)
These cars in Stock and Super Stock are so far out from where we started, maybe we need to start again?

Well, that's not going to happen without the NHRA rebuilding it's Tech Dept.! It would be nice to be able to just hit the "reset button" though.

Dick Butler 07-22-2015 08:33 AM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 477180)
Well, that's not going to happen without the NHRA rebuilding it's Tech Dept.! It would be nice to be able to just hit the "reset button" though.

Or use a sealed motor class. No tech except check seal.

Michael Beard 07-22-2015 08:52 AM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton (Post 477135)
Randall, I always value your opinion and most others as well. I know Pure Stock has been tossed around a while, maybe? These cars in Stock and Super Stock are so far out from where we started, maybe we need to start again?

IHRA already has Pure Stock, and they can run at the Auto Meter Northern Class Nationals. (As warned prior to last year's event, don't assume that you can show up with a traditional Stocker and put Pure Stock on the window. We DQ'd a driver last year.)

buzzinhalfdozen 07-22-2015 09:22 AM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
I could be wrong on this but IF this were to become reality it would play directly into the "deep pockets" group of racers. And here's why...Sealed engine, so let's see how we make this thing faster, ceramic bearings every where BIG $$$$$$, ultra trick and lite trans, again lots of dough, $4000 aluminum converters, ultra lite axles, oils thinner than water @ $ 20 a quart, $4500 third members that will spin with a gust of wind. Yeah sounds like a sealed engine comp class to me. Good luck Dick but it's been proven over and over again that the stricter the rules, the more money gets spent. I'm not quite sure what "problem" you're attempting to fix but to me at least it looks like "Class" racing is alive and well. Joe

ALMACK 07-22-2015 10:33 AM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
As far as sealed crate engine classes go, the NMRA started a Coyote class several years back that required a sealed production line engine.

I looked into it and added up everything a competitive car would cost to build to run that type of race (heads up) and it wasn't long before it exceeded $ 21,000.

I stepped away from the idea and then bought a turn key NHRA Stocker for half that and have had no regrets since.

ss wannabee 07-22-2015 10:48 AM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
I think we should take a moment and realize this concept...class racing..despite problems from time to time...has been ALIVE for some 50 years or so...maybe more?

Dick Butler 07-22-2015 01:25 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
What a great thread. Lots of satisfied people with the Stk eliminator and SS eliminator as it is currently called. Many call it class racing and that's true in the sense it has to be a class legal car.
Some miss the point by a mile some recognize the need for an entry cheaper way to get new involvement. Many are satisfied with their current status and car.
Some recognize the factoring problems but no one on this thread has added anything about being beaten by a lightly factored combination except Jack.. I assume that means eliminator participation is the product people like most.

Michael Beard 07-22-2015 02:17 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Define what is "cheap"? What's an acceptable dollar figure for entry level 1) Stockers and 2) Super Stockers? What's an acceptable performance level for such a car? What is the goal/purpose of the car?

Jim Caughlin 07-22-2015 05:23 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Dick, there is a 'cheap' entry to stock and super stock, it's called bracket race until you can afford to move up to class racing, that's what I did. I didn't ask for anyone to change the rules to accommodate me. When I first started is SS, I couldn't run the index but I kept at it until it worked. If it comes to the point that I can't afford SS or don't like the rules, I won't complain, I'll just go back to bracket racing.

Jim Caughlin
SS 6019

Marty Buth 07-22-2015 05:39 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Right On, Jim!!! Your experience and thoughts are a carbon copy of mine!

Dick Butler 07-22-2015 05:41 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
[QUOTE=Jim Caughlin;477222]Dick, there is a 'cheap' entry to stock and super stock, it's called bracket race until you can afford to move up to class racing, that's what I did. I didn't ask for anyone to change the rules to accommodate me. When I first started is SS, I couldn't run the index but I kept at it until it worked. If it comes to the point that I can't afford SS or don't like the rules, I won't complain, I'll just go back to bracket racing.

Jim Caughlin
SS 6019[/QUOTE
Again this posts the fact that Most people are pleased with taking a class legal set of rules and building a car to compete. They are having fun and the Heads Up Class racing component doesn't come up in their responses.
Jim you are correct as far as you go with your comments. How many cars are in your Class when you go to a national event? Are they a good heads up race for you or are you #1 in class and can win a trophy? or are you just pleased to race the Points meet format?
To me Eliminator at points meets is only a part of the picture.Winning a class trophy is the rest.
To each his own but when dial in Is what you live for ......are you really running class?

Dick Butler 07-22-2015 05:58 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Beard (Post 477211)
Define what is "cheap"? What's an acceptable dollar figure for entry level 1) Stockers and 2) Super Stockers? What's an acceptable performance level for such a car? What is the goal/purpose of the car?

Two topics are being discussed in one thread
1) Slow death of Class Racing( except your meet and one or two Nationals)
Point is the more legal motors and the more factors the more inequity of factoring influences who can win a trophy in Class Racing. This creates the feeling Eliminator qualification and being able to race in that portion of the event is THE goal. This minimizes the achievement of winning a Trophy or beating 8 or 10 cars of similar make up to show you have that kind of skill.
2)Second topic which has been added by some is cheap class car for entry.
Cheap one of a kind Dime Rockets are around. Some relish creating a beautiful one of a kind #1 Qualifier complete with all hand built creations. That is great and to be congratulated but..... who does this car race- Heads up? No One.
If people feel a cheap entry level car could help attract new blood, bring back retired racers, serve as a place to decrease their cash investment and still race, that is my discussion.
I have no idea of the cost but they must all be the same and all given a chance to win a trophy. Only lb/cubic inch. No more rule book wonders. Basic motors and trans rules as in prior Mod posts. Reward for work not changing cars or motors.
A sealed motor is around 4500$ and a retired roller might be 10,000-15K

Paul Wong 07-22-2015 06:17 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
2)Second topic which has been added by some is cheap class car for entry.
Cheap one of a kind Dime Rockets are around. Some relish creating a beautiful one of a kind #1 Qualifier complete with all hand built creations. That is great and to be congratulated but..... who does this car race- Heads up? No One.
If people feel a cheap entry level car could help attract new blood, bring back retired racers, serve as a place to decrease their cash investment and still race, that is my discussion.


I know there is backlash to the whole combo class, but it seems like everywhere I go I am running a class final late in the afternoon with my "one off" rides. The combo class is like a little bit of class racing that I never got a chance to get when they ran off records decades ago.

ALMACK 07-22-2015 06:34 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Caughlin (Post 477222)
Dick, there is a 'cheap' entry to stock and super stock, it's called bracket race until you can afford to move up to class racing, that's what I did. I didn't ask for anyone to change the rules to accommodate me. When I first started is SS, I couldn't run the index but I kept at it until it worked. If it comes to the point that I can't afford SS or don't like the rules, I won't complain, I'll just go back to bracket racing.

Jim Caughlin
SS 6019

^^ This

I had to wait 30 years before I could afford to move into class racing from bracket racing.

Dan Fahey 07-22-2015 11:46 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Caughlin (Post 477222)
Dick, there is a 'cheap' entry to stock and super stock, it's called bracket race until you can afford to move up to class racing, that's what I did. I didn't ask for anyone to change the rules to accommodate me. When I first started is SS, I couldn't run the index but I kept at it until it worked. If it comes to the point that I can't afford SS or don't like the rules, I won't complain, I'll just go back to bracket racing.

Jim Caughlin
SS 6019

Hmm..that is what I did for Pure Stock.
Ran the ECIRS series and over the years made changes.
Documented them. Upgraded here and there.
Realized I could run under the G/PS index.
Ran S/SS Tri State events doing fairly well.
Drove the car to all the races putting on the racing wheels and went racing.

But kept upgrading and now towing to the races.
The expense to go faster does not stop.
Wish NHRA would add Pure Stock.
Feel More racers would build and run them.
Just so many advantages such as reliability!

D

GarysZ24 07-22-2015 11:50 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 476799)
I also don't see how Class Racing is deteriorating. It seems to me that, taken as a whole, Stock and SS seem to have the best car counts race after race. And as far as your more expense/ less satisfaction crack, speaking for myself, the worse the combo that I build, the more satisfaction I'm able to get out of competing with it.
Maybe you should try a "Dime Rocket". It can't hurt.

Billy

Billy, I couldn't agree with you more about the "Dime Rocket" ideal....heck I just found out today from Vic Hobbs that Bill O'Connor won a Stock/Super Stock Combo race...not with a fire breathing big block, or a V-10, or even a wheel standing small block, but his 4bangered fwd Dodge Omni, this past Saturday in Fontana! How much more of a "Dime Rocket" winner can you get than his car?

As another racer said here on this thread, you can thank the better economy, and especially the lower gas prices too....heck when this season started, I figured that the same number of people who raced D7 last year would be racing this year, thus I'd have less D7 people to race against, and it would be a little easier to have a good points finish for the first time since 2008....WRONG!!!! Only two divisionals so far and there's 110 racers competing in my division for me to have to deal with, and there may be more after Sonoma this weekend. Competition is good, and the turnouts are increasing and that's good for the life of our categories and classes! I can't wait for my next race in two months in Utah!!!!

GTX JOHN 07-23-2015 04:34 AM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Bill also has won divisional races....I recall Bakersfield a few years ago.

He always seem to have a great light against me and his car is murder to drive the stripe against.

AS far as expensive.....I see in Classified one of the winningest stocker out
here on the West Coast ever for a asking price of $15,000. which is not
much more than the average bracket car.

The Hawk 07-23-2015 07:38 AM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GTX JOHN (Post 477257)
Bill also has won divisional races....I recall Bakersfield a few years ago.


.

My how time flies. If my memory serves me correctly it was back in `96 Bill won in Bakersfield. Awesome job in Fontana Bill!

bob3240 07-23-2015 10:57 AM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Some of the greatest thrills I had was racing in stock and Super Stock in the individual classes. Win or lose, the adrenalin flowed freely! There were usually 7-12 cars and you had to win to run the eliminator. I still stay away from most national meets that don't have class runoffs. Thanks Michael for not making another all bracket race. Bob Michael

Mark Yacavone 07-23-2015 01:11 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Going to have to hit the "like" button on that one, Bob.

I haven't really commented on this thread because I'm still not sure what it was supposed to be about.
I'm quite sure it has nothing to do with running in a dial in eliminator, but I can see why some may have thought that.

If it's supposed to be about why the participation in a lot of the individual class run offs seems to be dwindling away, I do have some thoughts on that.

Now, if it was supposed to be a back door way of promoting a Mod/ Spec engine class within SS Eliminator, I've already commented on why I don't think it would work on any large scale.
That being said, if it was a RWD platform, small block only, clutch type 4 or 5 speed deal only , I'd certainly watch Dick Butler participate in it.

Ed Fernandez 07-23-2015 09:56 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Butler (Post 477181)
Or use a sealed motor class. No tech except check seal.

Dick, are you living in 1950? How do you propose to seal a motor in the world we live in now where you can use technology to make a plastic handgun?

Dick Butler 07-23-2015 11:24 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez (Post 477348)
Dick, are you living in 1950? How do you propose to seal a motor in the world we live in now where you can use technology to make a plastic handgun?

The post was about why "Racing Class" is dying slowly because of the bogus yearly different HP motors and technology poorly or purposely factored below any expectations. This causes hard working dedicated people to play second fiddle in "Racing class" because they are left with Last years hot ticket or even worse 10 year ago cars. It is not progress to continually have a newer rule book winner. It is the thing which can create the strong desire to just call Dial in racing, Class Racing. It is NOT class racing it is the bracket racing with expensive class cars part of Stk and SS. . Why do people become less interested in racing someone for Class trophy when they cannot compete? You got it, they have worked hard, struggled for the money to make their project a winner only to be left with a Number 2 or 3 competitive car in class. Then there are those who complain that Money will dominate in heads up classes. What is happening now? Guys who can afford to buy the newer, lower factored but technically advanced products are able to dominate normal cars. NHRA then makes a new class to separate them and wa-la more dial in racing not less.
It is the system as it started without adequate change to preserve the Class Winner as the hard worker, not the newest, most favored, most financially able to compete or the most unheard of combination. This brings new entrants but affects the outcomes.
Now for those who are pleased with the issues today no reason to change..
Possible change for situation:
Create at least one entry level car to run a class. Cheap can help.
To re create a level field Sportsman class I recommend a starter class be lb/cubic inch
where talent and hard work can continue to give a chance to win a "Trophy" with no chance of a Rule Book Rocket making your project extinct next season. Keep It very limited on specs and it can be teched easier and cheaper too.( Sealed motors work elsewhere but )
It can run eliminator at points meets or Nationals but it might catch on big as fun Class at these events..

buzzinhalfdozen 07-24-2015 09:15 AM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Dick, it appears you've answered your own questions in your posts. Take 2 racers, both work hard on their stuff one makes 55,000 a year has kids, mortgage ect. one makes 150,000 a year , has kids, mortgage ect. Now they're equally intelligent , motivated, and willing to work on their race cars to make them competitive. Which one's going to be the quicker car? As with most anything competitive the money always wins! Now racer number 1 may be one of the best drag racers ever, however he has no chance of winning class, does he just quit? It sounds to me at least that you want to develope a class that YOU want the YOU can be on top. How does that help "class racing"?

randy wilson 07-24-2015 09:16 AM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
I don't think class racing died with the old folks, I think it is less popular today not so much the initial cost, but the hard, almost impossible task of HPing so many different combos. And for the hood scoop cars, what hurts is the constant updates on cylinder heads etc. and don't give me the crap about time marches on. For example, in SS/ CS for instance, I understand why they updated from the 461X head to the phase 2 bow tie because of availability, but why, after all that money invested, and tons of heads available, now you had to spend another $10,000 to get the vortex bow tie. Not counting intakes, pistons, Cam's, etc. just an example is all I'm stating. Love the cars in Comp, SS, and Stk.

Ed Carpenter 07-24-2015 10:10 AM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Why is this still being discussed?????

randy wilson 07-24-2015 10:11 AM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deuces wild (Post 477391)
Why is this still being discussed?????

Just because we're bored.

Dick Butler 07-24-2015 03:05 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzinhalfdozen (Post 477382)
Dick, it appears you've answered your own questions in your posts. Take 2 racers, both work hard on their stuff one makes 55,000 a year has kids, mortgage ect. one makes 150,000 a year , has kids, mortgage ect. Now they're equally intelligent , motivated, and willing to work on their race cars to make them competitive. Which one's going to be the quicker car? As with most anything competitive the money always wins! Now racer number 1 may be one of the best drag racers ever, however he has no chance of winning class, does he just quit? It sounds to me at least that you want to develope a class that YOU want the YOU can be on top. How does that help "class racing"?

WOW you are still missing it. The winner of the two guys is the one with the more bogus motor factor unless they have the Same motor and car. SSM classes are exceptions.
I am not racing but watching how the racing class portion of Stk and SS has issues.
And Costs continue to be discussed. Why not limit the changes back to a basic car all can afford. Then the guy who works hardest and drives the smartest at least has a chance of winning.

Ron Middleton 07-24-2015 04:26 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Dick,
I fully understand what you're getting at but wasn't that pretty much the initial idea of Super Modified? I have never seen crate motors work in oval track racing as I ran the Parts Pro Truck Series for almost 5 years about the same JC Beattie was running. They introduced crate motors and it all went to hell in a hand bag. What keeps someone with money from buying 10 motors, dynoing them all and selling off all but the best 3 engines. The spec deal will work somewhat but in the end the money will rule. Just look at cylinder heads in Stock now. One thing for certain, we can't turn the clock back, the technology has gotten us in this vicious circle and is just part of it. After my car was stolen I haven't raced the last 2 years and am currently working on returning. IT won't be a top qualifier but should still be fun. My driving will probably be the biggest thing that will keep me from winning much. And as far as the bracket racing/class deal. That is one of things I like best about Stock and Super Stock. You can still bracket race em if you like and that makes it all look like a better choice to me. Just look at Beard and his program.

Rick Leininger Jr. 07-24-2015 06:05 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Leininger Jr. (Post 476810)
Originally Posted by Billy Nees
You've tried 3 cars in one class and was continually trumped? Either you're a poor judge of combos or you need a new engine builder.

Dick, what one class and what were the three car/engine combos?

Dick, I think you missed this?

Dick Butler 07-24-2015 07:15 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
[QUOTE=Rick Leininger Jr.;477453]Dick, I think you missed this?[/QUOTE0

Nope, SS/LA 350 chevelle, then 283 chevy II and the 400 Pontiacs dominated till they left the class( one Pontiac guy waved good bye to George Cureton in class) My skills were developing as I learned from these cars. Hopefully with the help of my engine builder Ralph Truppi for more than 20 plus years I learned a lot. We discussed our cars and technology Daily long distance. It paid off. My work at the track meshed well with his engines and we were very successful in class and occasionally in eliminator too.

rognelson777 07-24-2015 08:48 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
amazing how our memories work, Ponder this, in 1972 would you be complaining your 15 year old 1957 chevy 327 fuel injected is not competitive with a 3 year old 1969 z 28. What do you think? Sorry, do not know what 2 cars back then were in the same class, just a guess. Maybe Larry Hill can give us a comparison because he was probably #1 qualifier at Indy that year

Rick Leininger Jr. 07-24-2015 09:01 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
[quote=Dick Butler;477463]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Leininger Jr. (Post 477453)
Dick, I think you missed this?[/QUOTE0

Nope, SS/LA 350 chevelle, then 283 chevy II and the 400 Pontiacs dominated till they left the class( one Pontiac guy waved good bye to George Cureton in class) My skills were developing as I learned from these cars. Hopefully with the help of my engine builder Ralph Truppi for more than 20 plus years I learned a lot. We discussed our cars and technology Daily long distance. It paid off. My work at the track meshed well with his engines and we were very successful in class and occasionally in eliminator too.

At one time you changed combos in order to stay competitive in your class of choice, why are you against doing that now?

goinbroke2 07-24-2015 09:58 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Butler (Post 477429)
WOW you are still missing it. The winner of the two guys is the one with the more bogus motor factor unless they have the Same motor and car. SSM classes are exceptions.
I am not racing but watching how the racing class portion of Stk and SS has issues.
And Costs continue to be discussed. Why not limit the changes back to a basic car all can afford. Then the guy who works hardest and drives the smartest at least has a chance of winning.

No Dick, you are missing it, the winner is the guy with the more disposable income. Either one can build your so called "bogus" car. So that's not the factor that effects everything, the guy with the most money wins in a heads up race..every time...and the poorer guy either switches classes so he can race or he goes home early or...doesn't show up at all because he knows he can't affort the $$$$converter or heads or whatever with the mortgage etc.
Everybody has their own situation, some bracket race until they can afford a class car, then they keep on bracket racing it (a bit under the index) until they make it quick enough to run heads up. That takes time, effort and MONEY. The guy that doesn't have the money to be the big dog will change classes or whatever to avoid an instant loss.
Others, same situation but can afford to try and be one of the big dogs. Might work, might not but they try. Then you have the guys with the money, they can be the big dog, they just fork over more $$ when they lose until, HEY! they're the big dog now.

So you know what, lots of people are saying they are bracket racing their stocker because that's what suits them for whatever their reasons are. Due to their situations, they will never agree to a heads up only style of racing. They don't believe class racing is dying because they're waiting in line for hours to get through the gate.

Your line "Then the guy who works hardest and drives the smartest " that is still true, YOU just have to realise that the guy working the hardest on his combo might not be the fastest in his class. When I look at the 180* headers billy made with his own two hands for an oddball combo and compare that to the $$$$ kooks headers that somebody bought for their #1 qualifying car...I know who's "working the hardest" and it ain't the "bigdog".

EDIT: and if you want to limit the car choices so everybody has the same combo so "Then the guy who works hardest and drives the smartest" I hate to tell you but not everybody wants a cookie cutter car. And certainly nobody wants to see a few classes of all the same car racing.

randy wilson 07-24-2015 10:29 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Middleton (Post 477437)
Dick,
I fully understand what you're getting at but wasn't that pretty much the initial idea of Super Modified? I have never seen crate motors work in oval track racing as I ran the Parts Pro Truck Series for almost 5 years about the same JC Beattie was running. They introduced crate motors and it all went to hell in a hand bag. What keeps someone with money from buying 10 motors, dynoing them all and selling off all but the best 3 engines. The spec deal will work somewhat but in the end the money will rule. Just look at cylinder heads in Stock now. One thing for certain, we can't turn the clock back, the technology has gotten us in this vicious circle and is just part of it. After my car was stolen I haven't raced the last 2 years and am currently working on returning. IT won't be a top qualifier but should still be fun. My driving will probably be the biggest thing that will keep me from winning much. And as far as the bracket racing/class deal. That is one of things I like best about Stock and Super Stock. You can still bracket race em if you like and that makes it all look like a better choice to me. Just look at Beard and his program.

I never ran true Stock or SS anything. Always hood scoop cars. The reason? I don't think I was quite smart enough to venture there. Way too many combos to figure out, plus knowing the grey areas. But I don't believe the combos would have gotten out of control had there not been quite so many to choose from. No way NHRA or IHRA could possibly catch everything under that scenario. Dick and I don't always agree on the heads up deal, but we don't get angry over it either. He thinks a sealed crate motor would work, I don't. I think the Brodix deal is better. Only because it works in circle track, and crate motors don't. We were just presenting the idea to bring that notion into SS as an alternative, but hardly a slow class. Just a tad cheaper. Without the fear of a new head coming out next year. I truly don't see, with all the new classes it would disrupt anything. As far as the guy with the most dollars winning, I witnessed an engine locally in a 69 Camaro no more then $7,000 actual dollars in it outrun a well known Comp/SS engine builders $28,000 dollar engine in this exact same scenario. It was close, but the guy on social security disability limited budget, (he wasn't driving, by the way) won by .002. In the biggest race of the year. Both cars were torn down, both were 100 percent legal.

SStockDart 07-24-2015 11:18 PM

Re: Why Class racing dies slowly
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by randy wilson (Post 477491)
I never ran true Stock or SS anything. Always hood scoop cars. The reason? I don't think I was quite smart enough to venture there. Way too many combos to figure out, plus knowing the grey areas. But I don't believe the combos would have gotten out of control had there not been quite so many to choose from. No way NHRA or IHRA could possibly catch everything under that scenario. Dick and I don't always agree on the heads up deal, but we don't get angry over it either. He thinks a sealed crate motor would work, I don't. I think the Brodix deal is better. Only because it works in circle track, and crate motors don't. We were just presenting the idea to bring that notion into SS as an alternative, but hardly a slow class. Just a tad cheaper. Without the fear of a new head coming out next year. I truly don't see, with all the new classes it would disrupt anything. As far as the guy with the most dollars winning, I witnessed an engine locally in a 69 Camaro no more then $7,000 actual dollars in it outrun a well known Comp/SS engine builders $28,000 dollar engine in this exact same scenario. It was close, but the guy on social security disability limited budget, (he wasn't driving, by the way) won by .002. In the biggest race of the year. Both cars were torn down, both were 100 percent legal.

$7,000 engine out run a $28,000 engine....really????


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