Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Michael is correct, the EPA is like the BATFE, it is a government agency that has very little oversight, and is able to write regulation and policy that effectively become law, without any legislative action. That allows presidential appointees to effectively write and enforce laws at the whim of those who appointed them.

So, yes, the EPA can do pretty much what ever they decide they want to. Up to and including deciding what you can and cannot do with your own vehicle, just as they decide what you can do with what amounts to a mud puddle on your property.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

The Millennials will save us! ;-)

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

The below is primarily an expert attorney's evaluation. The actual press release was released 2 days ago on this but fundamentally spells the same thing: CLICK HERE

This has NEVER been done or passed in the USA before.... until now.

To be clear, SEMA sent out a press release on February 8, 2016 stating that the EPA has proposed a regulation to prohibit conversion of vehicles originally designed for on-road use into race cars. It stated that the regulation would impact “all vehicle types,” including the light-duty passenger cars and light-duty trucks typically modified for racing. The press release contained no citations to the actual rules that the EPA is proposing to change, but noted that Congress has never authorized nor extended the Clean Air Act to regulate competition motor vehicles.

As noted by SEMA in its official comment on the proposed rules, the Motor Vehicle Air Pollution Control Act of 1965 (the “1965 Act”) was the first federal law to regulate motor vehicle emissions. The 1965 Act first defined the term “motor vehicle” as “any self-propelled vehicle designed for transporting persons or property on a street or highway.” 50 years later, that remains the definition of “motor vehicle” contained in the United States Code.

In 1970, Congress passed the Clean Air Act Amendments (the “CAA”). The CAA did not disturb the definition of “motor vehicle” as set forth in the 1965 Act, but it did mandate new emissions standards and expanded the anti-tampering provision to require that no person render emissions controls inoperative after first sale. While on first blush that would seem to require emissions controls on all racing vehicles that are converted from their original street use, the committee notes make it clear that the intent of the legislation was never to regulate racing vehicles.

There have been numerous other amendments to the 1965 Act since it's time, but... None of these amendments sought to include racing vehicles in the definition of “motor vehicle,” which has remained the legal term for a motorized vehicle intended to carry people or objects on public roads.

Now to the really bad and the Important stuff....

On Monday, July 13, 2015, the EPA published its proposed rules entitled “Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Fuel efficiency Standards for Medium- and Heavy-Duty Engines and Vehicles.” The stated purpose of the proposed rules is “to establish a comprehensive national program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and fuel consumption for new on-road heavy-duty vehicles, particularly for tractor-trailers, heavy-duty pickups and vans, and vocational vehicles (such as farm tractors).” The EPA intends to publish the final rule in July 2016. The EPA recognizes that competition vehicle emissions do not fall squarely within the purview of the CAA (as amended), and seeks to eliminate that exclusion beginning in 2018. As the EPA states in the explanatory notes for “Miscellaneous EPA Amendments,” EPA is proposing in 40 CFR 1037.601(a)(3) to clarify that the Clean Air Act does not allow any person to disable, remove, or render inoperative (i.e., tamper with) emission controls on a certified motor vehicle for purposes of competition.10 An
existing provision in 40 CFR 1068.235 provides an exemption for nonroad engines converted for competition use. This provision reflects the explicit exclusion of engines used solely for competition from the CAA definition of “nonroad engine.” The proposed amendment clarifies that this part 1068 exemption does not apply for motor vehicles.

The EPA’s approach reaches its zenith in two different sections of the proposed rule. 40 CFR 86.1854-12(b)(5)14 states that:


Certified motor vehicles and motor vehicle engines and their emission control devices must remain in their certified configuration even if they are used solely for competition or if they become nonroad vehicles or engines; anyone modifying a certified motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine for any reason is subject to the tampering and defeat device prohibitions of paragraph (a)(3) of this section and 42 USC 7522(a)(3).
The proposed rule is more draconian in 40 CFR 1068.10116, “What general actions does this regulation prohibit?” The answer is “don’t modify your engine, ever.” It bans:


Knowingly removing or rendering inoperative any device or element of design
installed on or in engines/equipment in compliance with the regulations after
such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser. Violation of same by a
manufacturer or dealer comes with a civil penalty of $37,500 for each engine
or piece of equipment in violation; violation by anyone else may be assessed a
civil penalty of up to $3,750 per engine or piece of equipment;
Knowingly manufacturing, selling, offering to sell, or installing any
component that bypasses, impairs, defeats, or disables the control of emissions
of any regulated pollutant. Violation of same may draw a civil penalty of up to
$3,750 for each component in violation;
Certified motor vehicles and motor vehicle engines must remain in their
certified configuration even if they are used solely for competition or if they
become nonroad vehicles or engines; anyone modifying a certified motor
vehicle or motor vehicle engine for any reason is subject to the tampering and
defeat device prohibitions of 1068.101(b): a civil penalty of $37,500 may be
subjected for each engine or piece of equipment in violation by a
manufacturer or dealer; violation by anyone else may be assessed a civil
penalty of up to $3,750 per engine or piece of equipment;
Importation of uncertified engines or equipment is prohibited if it is defined to
be “new.” The definition of “new” is broad for imported engines and
equipment; uncertified equipment, including used engines and equipment, will
generally be considered to be “new;” violators are subject to the
manufacturer/dealer penalty of $37,500 for each piece of equipment in
violation


Perhaps most troubling is the provision in 40 CFR 1068.101(a) that states that it is prohibited to sell, offer for sale, import, or introduce or deliver into commerce in the US any new engine or equipment after emissions standards take effect for the engine or e equipment unless it is covered by a valid certificate of conformity for the model year and has the required label or tag. Although another note indicates that the heavy-duty truck and engine categories would not begin until 2021, this provision could be interpreted to indicate that the proposed rule be applied to any engine/equipment that was certified prior to the effective date of the rule – thus prohibiting modification to any motor vehicle engine in competition that was ever certified for use by the EPA – essentially every engine system sold in the US since the early 70’s.

What impact would this have on me and motorsports in general???

The proposed rules essentially ban the modification of any component of the engine, fuel, and emissions systems. By placing draconian fines on anyone who could be considered a manufacturer or dealer of aftermarket parts that would be used on production-based racing vehicles, these proposed rules will have an incalculably chilling effect on the aftermarket parts market. It is difficult to see how any aftermarket part manufacturer could continue to make and market performance parts without running afoul of this proposed rule unless the part was essentially identical to the factory-certified part.

The result of the die-off of aftermarket parts manufacturers will be dramatic. The proposed rules would also ban users from doing many of the things that draw participants to motorsport –
For example, weird engine swaps will be a thing of the past if motor vehicles and motor vehicle engines must remain in their certified configuration even if they are used solely for competition. Cam swaps, different exhaust headers, different intake manifolds are among the equipment which will be banned due to their impact on increased emissions. Not only will the fuel cell manufacturers essentially cease to exist (other than by making fuel cells for purpose-built race cars that are competition vehicles from the outset), it will become illegal to put a fuel cell into the former street cars that comprise the vast majority of motorsport activity in the US. In short, the impact would be devastating.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

This debate reminds me of the assault weapons ban of a few years ago, That had everyone screaming the Government was going to confiscate their guns. They are still yelling about it and it hasn't happened. Just got a flier from Cabelas stuffed with semi automatic rifles and 30 round magazines.

In Washington State cars 25 years old and older are considered collectors items and not subject to safety or emissions inspections.

If they really want to protect clean air, ban road travel to church and sporting events.

So much for my "popularity" factor...

Dale

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Watching the primaries for the Democrats and all the Bernie Sanders supporters being under 30 and you know those folks will support the EPA. How many of the young guys (I know sexist - screw PC) you think are building a race car or interested in racing? 0% The country is changing.

I feel we can't even trust having a Republican president can save us going down this road. Need to take some tips from the NRA

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Historically, prohibition makes the government look foolish and the "mechanics" wealthy.

Dale

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Just signed #39498.This has to stop as the current bunch knows no bounds.For an example check out Fitzgerald Truck Parts and see the gliders they and other companies build as a way to get a new truck you can use and not fix all of the time.Remember to VOTE!!! John Kissel K242

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Too numerous are the pieces describing how young people desiring their driver’s license are becoming fewer and fewer:

http://www.theatlantic.com/technolog...icense/425169/

This does not bode well for a culture that allegedly values freedom and liberty.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

The point is that how can this be a society based on the sovereignty of its citizens when its government is in control of what you can and cannot do? Do not believe that these regulations are the result of a representative decision; they are the acts of a select group who want to impose values and world view on everyone else for the purpose of control by punitive action. Our government's role as stated by the constitution is to protect our liberties, not ban things from our lives.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Don't think it won't happen just because it hasn't happened yet --- Jackson Browne

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

This is all true. The gist of my point is that rules have no teeth without enforcement. This is why gun control has and will continue to fail. They can ban the manufacture of high capacity magazines but they can't stop the flow of the existing ones around the country without a massive expense in enforcement. Politicians are great at talk but not good at digging up the money to fund what they propose.

The Federal Government has, in the past, banned liquor, so people made their own. The Government lacked the resources to enforce the law and this will happen on the emissions thing, too.

I live in Washington State where the State legislature, by a vote of the people, legalized the sale, taxation and recreational use of marijuana. This is still a Federal crime and the FBI and DEA don't need a nod from the Obama Administration to start busting the dozens of State licensed drug dealers because it's already on the books. Since the State taxes the sale of pot and puts the money in the General Fund, I guess the feds could arrest all of the Legislators as drug dealers in an ongoing criminal enterprise. It would be a dirty, expensive, politically (on the grass roots level) unpopular endeavor.

This EPA thing has already been passed by the House and Senate, so we need to find out how our Representatives voted on it and send them home the next chance we get.

Clean air and water are good things. Stopping the conversion of heavy trucks to non emissions engines is a good idea.

Stopping the sale of aftermarket parts not emissions certified won't happen because it would have too much of an economic impact. Jegs, Summit, Holley and the long list that sticker the sides of our cars would be out of business.

Getting non certified limited use classics off the road would kill the auction business. What's Barrett-Jackson worth?

This has passed and will probably be signed by the President but won't be enforced on a level that affects drag racing.

Excuse me for not hitting the panic button.

Dale

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

"I'm just rolling away from yesterday
Behind the wheel of a stolen Chevrolet
I'm going to get a little higher
And see if I can hot-wire reality"

The Road and the Sky
Jackson Browne

Dale

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Good posts Dale. The conspiracy theory wing nuts are easily chaffed but not to worry, they usually fall silent when the sky doesn't fall on their heads.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

You are 100% right.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

The black helicopters are coming!

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Greg: They use drones now...

On the subject of polluting diesel engines, Pacific Raceways -"The Tree Huggers Track"- is adding a diesel truck series to the 2016 schedule. No joke.

Dale

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

My understanding of this is that the EPA is trying to enforce part of the Clean Air Act passed, by Congress & Potus a while ago. Congress said more than once, NO not race cars. So EPA is re-writing to INclude rececars. I didnt study law or politics but somebody @ HotRod had a lawyer look @ this & he said, be afraid. Any newer info out there ? But I hear ya Dale, about congress funding things.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Unfortunately, the EPA does have the authority to enforce these regulations. In some cases, they also have the agency to carry out the enforcement. I would much rather stay on the side that says that this is an area that we do not want them to have easy legal access to. All that has to happen is that enough movement with enough people in critical positions and they can use any enforcement agency to restrict your rights. Ask the coal industry. Get enough sentiment behind a movement to shut it down and it is happening. It may be years into the future before anything might happen that would affect drag racing, but why give them a red carpet to do what they want without any recourse or representation. If you believe that issues like this are benign because the United States is a "free" country and the government is simply looking out for its citizens, then you need to study history a lot. People in charge are always no smarter, no more ethical and no more altruistic in their decisions and actions than any of us when there is no oversight or accountability. Warren Buffet once said that the ideal company to invest in would be one that was so structured that even if a fool were put in charge that it would still be successful. Giving government agencies carte blanche to confiscate property, fine or imprison citizenry or worse is not a good idea.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Since the comparison has been made, I'm happy that most of us live in states where, for the most part, we can chose to own the firearms and accessories that we chose to. Not everyone is so fortunate and without strong, grassroots organizations, things would be quite different. There are most certainly bans on common items in different locations around the country and people sitting in jail for doing things that you and I do everyday without a second thought. Some of us have learned to not underestimate the resolve of the "government knows best" crowd.

Conspiracy theory?

http://theshopmag.com/news/news-blog...on-racing-mods

Sounds to me like the EPA position is that what we've been doing since 1968 has always been illegal. They're just getting around to doing something about it now. It's gone from factories, cars and trucks to bar-b-ques, lawn mowers and weed whackers. Frankly, I'm wondering what took them so long to get around to race cars, muscle cars, etc.

I would suggest not shrugging this off as "much ado about nothing". We should be calling and emailing our congress people, signing petitions, whatever can be done.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Well, at least it seems that there are way more folks interested in wrenching than previously thought.

Pacific Raceways TnT and the first Bremerton weekend is "only" 6 weeks away.

Got welding to do. What's that do to the environment?

Dale

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

The sky is falling and the earf is flat.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

For guys that don't get the SEMA newsletter:

Fact: The EPA’s proposal would not affect purpose-built racecars, such as sprint cars, open-wheel dragsters and the cars that currently compete in NASCAR.

The EPA agrees that vehicles that were originally manufactured for racing are excluded from regulation under the Clean Air Act. However, the EPA believes this exclusion extends only to vehicles that were never certified for on-road use or issued a VIN.


Sounds like cars built from a Body in White" are exempt? Like NASCAR, and a Pro Stock car?
Maybe somebody with a '93/'02 Firebird/Camaro built from a Body in White please PM me what your VIN tag looks like?

Thanks, Ed

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Yup , no VIN on RaceCars built from a body in white .

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

So if I read all this right, if I want to have a basic bracket or Stock/SS drag car and am forced to comply with EPA guidelines to avoid getting fined, it either has to

A: be stone stock in all respects as far as engine components, pollution, and engine management systems if it was built from 1965-on, or
B: I have to buy a new factory race car, a 'body in white', or build a tube chassis car with my own hand built body that won't have a VIN. or
C: it has to be something pre-1965 that never had any kind of emissions equipment installed from the factory. Then I can do whatever the heck I want to it without repercussion. Big lumpy cams, 6-71 blower, aluminum heads, alcohol fuel, I can run it at the county fair tracks and sling dirt all over the place with it if I wanted to, etc etc and nobody in the EPA would care.
Wow. That really sounds logical.

Sounds like 1964 and older cars are going to be pretty darned desirable then. Better buy one now if you want to race any more. Time for a total re-write of the NHRA Classification Guide too. The 1952 Hudson Hornets may be the newest killer combo in Stock!

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

No, those guys are just "crackpots." So is the leadership at SEMA. And, so are all the lawyers who actually know the law and can interpret it.

The federal and state agencies are just looking out for us. They don't actually intend to enforce the law...on racers...or the aftermarket. Especially the EPA. They don't have a mandate from the president, who insists that climate change is the biggest existential threat to the United States. No, the EPA is wonderful, and would never put itself in a position to impose a law that is politically motivated.

Nothing to see here, folks. All that you have to do is stick your head in the sand and enjoy the view....

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

In Washington state, only registered vehicles built between 1991 and 2008 require emissions testing. If it's not tested how would the Federal EPA find it?

Remember, I'm in the state that legalized pot sales. And no, I don't smoke it. It just seems like I do...

Dale

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

From what I recall, the first pollution controls appeared on cars destined for California dealers in 1965 in the form of a PCV valve and a return hose to the air cleaner to re-burn the blow-by. Other states soon followed and all were fully in by 1968 with belt driven air pumps, AIR tubes in the exhaust manifolds and all that stuff. Then in 1975, everything had to have catalytic converters and their associated parts.
The way I read the mandate is that -anything- that was manufactured with pollution devices has to have them intact and original. Not just 90's on up.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

There are many ways that EPA can enforce the law. Purchase history, registration transfers, registration renewals, etc. The fines are unbelievable if you are caught. Knowing that...why would anyone risk building a car that is likely to be rendered worthless at some point, after making a sizabe investment to build it. And then, to add insult to injury, have to suffer the financial burden of being fined to tens of thousands of dollars for doing so.

The aftermarket, however, is most at risk. Manufacturers cannot make parts that break the law. Additionally, builders cannot build cars that violate the law. The fines are too great.

I'm unsure why this issue is even being debated. It's not some tin-foil fantasy, where respected organizations and individuals have decided to enter the political foray in opposition to a party and its politics. One need only to look up Edge products and the EPA to understand the issue.

This situation is real. You can debate it to death. You can summarily dismiss it as reactionary. Or, you can defer to an organizations like as SEMA--that have a history of defending motor sports and the manufacturers that make it possible for racing to advance--and take action.

By the way: Federal law pertaining to narcotics is still enforceable in Washington State and any other State in the Union. The same principal applies to so-called sanctuary cities that do not enforce immigration law. The enforcement of Federal law in such cases depends largely on the interests of the administration in office. So, if a new administration--with a new attorney general--decides that federal narcotics laws will be enforced uniformly, then places like Washington State, California and Colorado will be either be visited by federal narcotics agents or face federal defunding...or both.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

This applies to motor vehicles, federally certified as legal for use on public roads as part of the Clean Air Act that covers '67 or '68 and up model years.

If Washington or any other state that inspects for federal emission standards is anything like Maryland, which I'm familiar with, the federal government (EPA) compels (I.E. blackmails) the state to develop and institute an inspection program that meets EPA approval. EPA, just like DOT, forces the states to enforce the regulations.

Now if a state department of the environmental, under threat of having federal funds withheld, wanted to find a bunch of post '67 cars, previously driven on public roads legally, that have been modified, had engines replaced, emissions discarded, turned into race cars, resto-mods, street machines, etc., don't you think they'd have an idea of where to look? It's as easy as enforcing any other EPA, DOT, IRS, ATF, etc., regulation, just hire more people. Imagine the amount of potential fines out there, which is a large part of what this is all about.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

The only area I know of on this side of the cascades that has the testing is Spokane. (currently)

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Just for the heck of it I looked up Arizona because there are so many solid pre emissions cars in dry states and the racing scene there is strong. The only testing zones are in Phoenix and Tucson.

Dale

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

The mission of any State EPA or the Federal EPA is to help protect all of it's citizens. Not just for today but also for the future. It's not an easy job because we are all polluters and there are some people in this world who are determined to circumvent the EPA rules. I have been listening to this BS about the government is taking our liberties away for more than 60 years, and until the recent voter restriction laws popped up, I haven't found any reason to be concerned. The EPA is simply trying to provide our descendants with a habitable planet. The US EPA is also the most embattled agency in the federal government, so rest assured, all the special interests groups will fight every "problematic" rule it attempts to enact.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

It just seems ironic to me that so many of the components used in the building of emission certified vehicles for the U.S. are manufactured in countries that have little or no air pollution standards. It's the same atmosphere.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Oh, the tragic irony of it all, and they are really paying for it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-pictures.html

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

What is a voter restriction law?Is it like showing the proper ID before getting on a airplane or showing the proper ID before you enter another country while on vacation.LOL

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

The tragic irony, as I and others see it, is that some people cannot make a distinction between building a race car used on a weekend (in some cases, one quarter mile at a time), and pollution caused by gross overpopulation and hyper-manufacturing.

And, indeed, regarding hyper-manufacturing: It is an outcome caused in part by an unquenchable need for material goods in developed countries that have had to offshore production due to overregulation.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Not sure if serious or being sarcastic. Either way, debating it would be off topic. I just wanted to make sure that as many people as possible were informed about what is coming down the pike. My hope is they will call and email their congress people, sign petitions and pass the information along to others. Maybe it will help if enough people speak up. Doing nothing is telling them they we're OK with whatever they want to take from or do to us. Being involved in other non-PC pursuits has taught me, if you just sit there and hope for the best, the "government knows best" crowd is going to run you over. Do what you think is best.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Not that I expect you to read it:

http://www.nationalmemo.com/pennsylv...c-vote-in-2012

and

Passing laws that reduce polling stations and hours of operation is blatant voter suppression. There is nothing funny about voting. It is a serious matter.

Edit: cellphone issues with links. Google voter suppression - especially in PA.

Re: EPA To Prohibit the Conversion of Street Cars into Race
 

Not surprising but very ironic. People in California think it's bad they should take a trip over there.