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Kenny asked us to stay out if the political stuff, but I guess you can't help yourself!

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Sent , we need to keep it at the forefront !!!!

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Done thanks mike

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I didn't know that was a political statement; I was just stating facts.

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Can you please provide the facts - with links? And not more of your imaginary political gibberish.

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I don't know about Dwight's statement of Trips vs Drag racing, but there is plenty of links about the trips and their carbon footprint impact as well as their cost to the tax payer.
just a real quick search of : Obama's jet trips vs pollution
The following 4 are just quick copy and past of a pretty good list.
OH, it's on the internet so it has to be the truth and factual.
Using a little thought and looking at some of the data "Out There" I would have to say what Dwight said is plausible.
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/was...00-gallon-trip

http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/22/ob...th-day-flight/

http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/04/1...nt-41000-tons/

http://freebeacon.com/issues/obama-e...does-annually/

This may not be Myth busters, but..... There is one thing I will say and back it up with a link: The EPA is on the wrong track with the ruling about converting cars to race cars and pollution.. Racing causes way less pollution than the aircraft industry.
http://www.yaleclimateconnections.or...ng-vs-driving/

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Sorry about the "non-political" stuff, but I can understand it. Should I delete this part of my post?

MY REPLY

Thank you for your reply. I just see it as another over reach of the Federal Goverment and over regulation. The EPA needs to go.

Maybe Mr trump can win NY State this time.

William Lamprecht

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All three are hard right wing sources and according to you with "plausible" information which is far from fact. And nobody knows how many tons of pollutants are released each year because of drag racing. This vacation dig is just another cheap shot by a guy who is sitting around waiting for his check each month.

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Based on gallons of fuel consumed. Some of the NHRA race data is a bit of an estimate since the access to accurate information is not available. But enough is available to make a reasonable estimate and it is not anywhere close to the amount of fuel consumed by the three jets in the presidential entourage that goes to Hawaii each year.


So, Bruce, "hard right wing" sources presumes inaccurate information? Only "hard left wing" sources count? Or is there truly unbiased information available? Care to point them out?


"This vacation dig is just another cheap shot by a guy who is sitting around waiting for his check each month." Totally uncalled for, Brucey. First of all, it was not a dig, but a statement of fact for a perspective that is worthy of consideration. Secondly, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO I AM OR WHAT I DO, so your little cheap shot is not accurate and if it is reflection of your character, then it is a building block for a less than admirable reputation. Nobody has presented false and cheap ad hominem attacks against you, so what's your beef that you feel the need to be so tacky?

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Guesstimates are not facts there hot shot. And have no basis in reality. Go get some really straight numbers. But, since we are not talking politics, let's use Bush's 80 trips to his ranch during his presidency. Let me know when you get something solid that we can chew on. Remember this is your baby - so back it up.

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Well, Bruce, you sure are funny. Who said this is a Democrat vs. Republican thing? Who said anything about Bush? You sure are touchy for no reason.


The calcs go like this:
According to the Boeing web site stats, a 747 uses approximately 5 gallons of fuel per mile. On a full trip, you have to add an additional 1800 to 2300 gallons for the takeoff acceleration and taxi time. The air miles from Washington, DC to Hawaii is 4762 miles. That calculates to 4762 * 5 + approx. 2000 or 25810 gallons of fuel one way, or 51,620 gallons round trip. The last two vacations included three 747s for the secret service and White House entourage. So that calculates to 154,860 gallons of fuel.


Let's say that an average of 500 sportsman level cars participate at each of NHRA's 23 national events and that the cars each average 5 runs per event. That's a total of 57500 runs for the season. I would say that it is generous to say that a gallon of fuel is used on each run and that is a total of 57,500 gallons. Then let's say that an average of 250 sportsman cars participate at each of NHRA's 42 LODRS races and that each of them averages 5 runs per race. Than is a total of 52,500 gallons of fuel. The total for the season then, is 57,500 + 52,500 or 110,000 gallons. Hhmmmmm . . . Which is the larger number? Now, you can argue about my estimates and assumptions for racer participation, but I do not think I have selected numbers that are particularly skewed to make my statements have credibility. And what if the President takes TWO vacations?!? Heaven, forbid!


Incidentally, I am just as critical of all the brands, levels and persuasions of politicians in office. It's just that some are easier to fault than others because they are so smugly snide about their self righteousness.

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Quite honestly when I read this part of the letter it should raise a red flag. What it seems to say in "politicalnese talk" is I hear our concern for racecar enthusiast's rights is noble, but not nearly as important as the harm to environment or family.


"As a member of the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, I believe it is important to ensure we are protecting our clean air. We must not create loopholes for emissions that would potentially harm our environment and families, while also protecting racecar enthusiast's rights."

Some folks in the government will not be happy until all car hoods are sealed and lock from the public. I don't care if these folks are Democratic, Republican, Green , Martian but the writing is appearing on the wall.

Will Lamprecht

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Emails sent

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I love the way you continually dog on the Democrats and claim to be an equal opportunity basher. Especially, when it turns out that your guy probably burned a gazillion more gallons than any other president in history. You do post on more than one site...correct?

You are still making assumptions by guessing at the numbers and then leaving out the more toxic fuel cars and the tens of thousands of passes that are made at local drag strips all around the country each year. And then of course there is the IHRA and a bunch of other racing organizations. Your earlier claim can not be proven, no matter the fluff, because nobody is seriously monitoring all the numbers for either part of your equation. And that is a fact!

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Bruce, I don't have a "guy", so again don't claim to make a statement about me that you have no basis in fact. It's rude and dishonest.


My original statement was "an entire season of NHRA drag racing" was somewhat unclear. It would have been better served to have stated "an entire season of NHRA championship series sportsman drag racing", but I believe the comparison was not out of line. The point was not to attack a man, but to illustrate that there are lots of considerations that probably should be considered more relevant to clean air than something that imposes hardships on so many and does not protect our freedom, but destroys it. If you have a better set of statistics or estimations to refute the facts I presented, then present them.


While I agree that no one is truly monitoring either side of the equation, government regulations that are imposed with no oversight are insidious when they selectively restrict freedoms while justifying a supposed righteous set of behaviors.


You need to stay on point and not be so personally touchy. Your attempt to confuse the argument by throwing in the fuel cars, local races and other associations misses the point of my criticism.

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My point is you used this thread to take another cheap shot at the President and you made claims of "fact" that you can't possibly prove. It's a constant series of compulsive political digs that color your posts. I will call you out when I see them since Kenny is not enforcing his ban on these remarks. That's my point.

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" It's a constant series of compulsive political digs that color your posts." Really?!? You are truly funny!

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Mr Noland, a famous bard once said: "me thinks thou do protest too much"

Damages your point

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Yes, really! We'll see if you can change your ways on this issue in the future. Maybe this thread will help. Good luck!

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Shakespeare was "the" Bard. And I think you misquoted him but that's OK. Debates are not uncommon and we should not give in to political gamesmanship. Especially, when we are on a racing site that supposedly bans political hacks.

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First, I ain't no hack, but you might have missed the memo, that with in the past 7 years and a piece, everything has become political. From the light bulbs in your garage, the food you eat, to which bathroom you use. It is creeping, like living by the Manatee River in a storm. Check the river in the evening, and wake up in the morning with the river circling around the neighborhood.John Kissel

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Yeah, and what's your point? Politics is in everything? OK we all understand that. Now the river is rising and we will all be drowned in politics? Except for this site. We won't be drowned in politics here. This is the place we come to discuss racing and escape politics and other world problems.

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The EPA at best will be held at bay for awhile. They will find another way to attack anything they want or are being directed too.

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Wow, for the sake of using 'obama' instead of "the president" or "a president" you've derailed three pages of the thread. Bush? Hell yeah, his plane just as much as Obama's and as much as Clintons and whatever other president you want to name. THAT WASN'T THE POINT!!!

Nobody even mentioned that the rep responses were "we're keeping an eye on it, don't worry" and the dem responses were "well, we have to have clean air to breath you know" Nobody mentioned that, but no doubt you'll take a hissy fit about that too.

Get back on topic, stop crying about the soon to be gone pres and worry about the future of racing!

(and of course ad hominum attack coming in 3..2...1..)

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Hi MIke. I reposted your petition request on all of my racer/car sites and facebook pages. To help spread the word. This is the reply a friend of mine got back.


Robert Tate - PLEASE READ THE RESPONSE I GOT! !!
Thank you for writing to me regarding your support of S. 2659, the Recognizing the Protection of Motorsports Act of 2016.

I understand your views on this legislation, however I am concerned that, S. 2659, the Recognizing the Protection of Motorsports Act of 2016, would remove protections placed in the Clean Air Act.

The Clean Air Act authorizes EPA to establish National Ambient Air Quality Standards (NAAQS) to protect public health and public welfare and to regulate emissions of hazardous air pollutants. Without protections like these, our children and families could suffer health complications, including asthma and other respiratory ailments.

As a member of the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, I believe it is important to ensure we are protecting our clean air. We must not create loopholes for emissions that would potentially harm our environment and families, while also protecting racecar enthusiast's rights.

Thank you again for writing to express your concerns, and I hope that you keep in touch with my office regarding future legislation. For more information on this and other important issues, please visit my website at http://gillibrand.senate.gov and sign up for my e-newsletter.



WOW! They definitely have their sites set on us dont they. Especially since about 50% of weekend bracket racer's are running "Ethanol". Oh and as a side note. Ive been an inner city paramedic for 28 years. And have yet to see a smog enduced asthma attack.

Steve Tucholsky

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It takes more than one person to cover 3 pages on this thread but you seem to think I did it all by myself. But in the end we want the same damn thing. Stop the political digs. That's what drew me back into this thread. And it should stop even if the administrator isn't paying attention.

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Please give my condolences to your family for having to put up with you on a daily basis.LOL

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This thread has problems. People problems.
To me the real issue is not if Obama, Clinton, Bush or Bush or Ronald Mc Donald was president when the over reaching mandates were enacted.
The problem is WE have the EPA over stepping. No agency should have the authority to do the damage to industry and business that the EPA does without congressional approval of their Mandates or what ever you want to call them.
It seems they(EPA) are good at taking congressional guidelines and twisting them around and hammering out harsh mandates. Most of the time there is no real oversight by congress unless "We the People" raise He** with our congressional members and alert them to the problems that the EPA mandates create for our industry. The system is broken. EPA, BLM and a few other agencies need to be overhauled and a few people on this board need to get their panties out of a wad. You know who you are , now flame away. I could give a Rats A** about your political agenda.

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Oh, it's the old let's attack the guy through his family crap. How childish can you be? I have a great family that needs no condolences from insult hurling little guys like you. It is interesting to see how easily you ol'boys get upset when someone doesn't buy into your conservative views.

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Bruce, you lie about people, call them names and are generally disrespectful in replies to them and then you want to complain about someone making fun about you? You purport to want to keep politics out of this forum and yet you continue to make political digs and attacks? Give me a break. . . .

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You just described your own behavior after kicking off this latest round of fun by dragging Obama into this discussion. You did that - not me pal. But if you want to talk trash - I can do that as well as you can. You don't like it - then curb your compulsive political posts and I won't have anything to say. It's that easy. You knock it off and I'll knock it off.

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Please knock this off and become a Class Racer.

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I just filled out the form. Let's get some more people to do this. And more people to post replys (about the subject).