Re: What about STOCK ?
dont change the issue here,..it was about buttons in stock!!.
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Re: What about STOCK ?
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Re: What about STOCK ?
And i think we should do away with the two-steps and buttons as well.
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Re: What about STOCK ?
Do all you guys really think that footbreaking is going to create parody in our sport as in who wins? The big guys that win all the time ( Biondo, Fletcher, Langs, and ect) put so much more into the sport than most of us. Make 400+ runs a year, study who they are racing, and know them better then they know thereselves. Can take .001 finish line at will, that alone wins more races than Good lights. Can dial in any weather with out timeshots durring that day. Pay attention to small details, that other people miss contatntly.lWhen they go to the track, they don't worry about winning class, working on there car to make it the fastest, or see who can drink the most beer and see who's left standing at 4 AM. THEY GO THERE TO RACE AND THATS IT.? These guys are the best because it's there Job. If we take two steps away, the good guys will adjust, and the other guys that are .050 normally will be .070 and up. The button helps the guy controll starting line rpm, thats it. You cant leave off the Top, I won't make an average racer any better. If we get rid of 2 steps I want to see all stick guys use there right foot controll the starting line rpm. Two steps didn't come it stick cars from the factory either. Lets leave the rules alone and work harder to make our cars run better, and to win more rounds.
Todd Hoven 1035 Stk |
Re: What about STOCK ?
So much of this sounds like the same things said about deep staging, etc from a few years ago yet the same guys still do most of the winning. I don't get why so many try to reshape Stock.
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Re: What about STOCK ?
Just so you know your facts! Jody Lang is a foot brake racer.
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Re: What about STOCK ?
Just so you know your facts! Jody Lang is a foot brake racer.
I didn't mean it like he was a 2 step racer. I just meant that he was one of thwe good racers that win with driving the finish line and wins consistantly. I don't race the west coast so I wouldn't know that about Lang. Good for him. Todd Hoven 1035 Stk |
Re: What about STOCK ?
Todd, my friend, You have to realize a stick shift driver cannot preset his rpm and then creep in ,like and automatic driver can . You may not remember, but we used to have a 5 amber tree until about 1986. You had half a chance of looking away from the tree to the tach and back again, back then. Just can't be done now.
No two steps and buttons on automatic cars, 2 steps for stick cars only , hooked to the line lock or clutch pedal. Bring back deep -staging. Give the slower cars half a chance. Case closed- Stock fixed. May the best foot -braker win. |
Re: What about STOCK ?
Hi,
If a stick car can set the EXACT leave RPM then automatic cars should have the same option. Bob |
Re: What about STOCK ?
Big Guy, Bring back the 5 amber tree and I'll take my chances! Bring back deep staging and I'll show you how to do it with an automatic car too (a slow one)
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Re: What about STOCK ?
Mark, I thought back in the day, all the stick guys rugged it and let the clutch out where ever the rpm was. Leave on the valve spring.I don't want them to have to do that. I see stick guys run heavy and they go in first and bring up the rpm by foot and wait. They are able to race like that. I just want things left alone. Why was deep staging made illegal anyway? Was it for the cortusey staging? If thats the case leave everything alone, and let guys go deep, but don't hold the tree for them. There job to be in first. Like I said in the begining, I just want to leave things alone.
Todd Hoven 1035 Stk |
Re: What about STOCK ?
Hey Guys, back to my original post. NHRA has stated, in last weeks National Dragster, that adjustable buttons have "Delay" capablilities. Therefore, in 2008, SS and Comp. will have only approved buttons for use with their Trans. Brakes.
Has "Stock" been over looked ? Aren't the same buttons used for Two Steps in Stock? Aren't Delay devices illegal in Stock? Two Steps and buttons probably aren't going anywhere.( The Pro Sportsmen Racers would go broke, lol.) But doesn't this new ruling by NHRA make adjustable buttons -"officially" - delay devices? |
Re: What about STOCK ?
Those Hydralic buttons I beleve can create enough delay to leave off the top. With a transbrake it works just like that, but letting off the foot brake it will never work, the car will roll before the 2 step is deactivated. Why would you want that? The 2 step works because the car leaves harder, and it is easier to hit the tree( car reacts quicker. we cant run a transbrake in stock. So whats the difference? I run a railroad microswitch no delay.
Todd Hoven 1035 STK |
Re: What about STOCK ?
jim,,,I would assume that anything that is illegal in superstock,,,would be illegal in stock,,,,IF Im thinking correctly ,, isnt superstock is a continuation of stock???,,,,,,Dont know if Im getting this across in words or not but I could make a good arguement in person,,,,,cant talk on keyboard well enough with my hands (LOL)
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Re: What about STOCK ?
Todd,,The rule has been grossly mis interpeted for the last few year,,,,,tech officials have explained the rule was wrote to address the point that there could be no delay between the release of the button and the item it controled,,,,,,OK,,,here is the confusion,,,,,,,,the release of the button is NOT WHEN YOU MOVE,,,but WHEN THE BUTTON RELEASES,,,,,,now that plainly is the dumbest explaination of anything I have ever seen,,,,,,,It was explained to me that it doesnt matter if the button sticks,,,,as long as when it does release,,,there isnt any measureable,,adjustable delay,,,,,,,,,,,so help me,,there must have been an attorney and a hypnotist convince a tech offiicial of this,,,,,,now they have awaken and realized,,,,maybe we were wrong in our thinking (go figure),,,, My thinking that if a .40 button is delay,, then so is a .05 button,,,,,delay is delay ,,no matter what the time,,,,,,,I do understand that there has to be some because its mechanical BUT the adjustable button should be banned,,,,,,,,you buy a spec button and you have what you have...........if they dont ban them in stock,,,,,,,,,,,but this brings us to another issue,,,,,,,what about adjustable RPM`s??? I mean without an adjustable button,,,,you can just raise or lower RPM`s and still have a large amount of adjustable RT control
on the line lock deal,,,you not limited on what buttons can go where in stock,,,,,,all you do is put 2 longtrhow buttons side by side,,,,and release both at the same time,,,,rules dont say anythng about long throw buttons hooked to the line lock,,,,to release both at the same time,,,a thin bar connecting them together across the top works fine,,,,,rules say they cant be wired together,,,well there not,,,,but they still work together,,,,,,,,,,they only way to get an end to all this is to ban the 2 steps/buttons.......or Im with Chip,,,either ban them OR let delay boxes be legal,,,,,,,,go one way or the other |
Re: What about STOCK ?
Mark, Jim ,Tim, Todd Doug and everyother stocker racer...
Let's just get rid of two-steps in stock and go-back to truth foot-brake racing !!!!! You know at alot of NHRA/IHRA bracket tracks you can't run two-steps in brackets, seems strange doesn't it ??? I would say get rid of all electronics (buttons, two-steps, etc) .. I don't care if sticks have them or not, but I guess we should get ready for the next MOVE..That will be dropping some lower classes and combining Sticks with Auto for a better Show... Remember thats what this is all about, not winning or losing but putting on a good SHOW..... Yes, I know the same guys will keep winning, so why make it easier for them..But don't tell me there isn't an advantage, again !!! Two-steps / buttons just make them much better... Lets hear it ?? Big brother (NHRA) will tell us in time what we can do ......... Dave...1033/Stock (RV-455) |
Re: What about STOCK ?
regular GT and super stock guys had better hope nhra approves the long button. i see lots of super stock modified cars running a non adjustible short button. must be a transmission thing.
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Re: What about STOCK ?
I don't care if sticks have them or not, but I guess we should get ready for the next MOVE..That will be dropping some lower classes and combining Sticks with Auto for a better Show.
If we are in the same class as the sticks next year, I want the 2 step if they have em. If no eletronics have it across the board. They can adjust there light with airgap in the clutch, and rpm. That is the same as saying we can kill .03 with a button. Now Here is the problem with the Bracket races at the local tracks. Now you need a 20K and up heavy car to compete. At my local tracks ATCO, ISLAND, ETOWN. The average heavy car runs 9.80 at 140+ They Deep stage and make the car run a 1.6 + 60 ft and roll like a freight train at the other end. It never spins and the can have almost no roll out. the 11 second bracket car is very outclassed now adays. Super Pro you need a 50K car that can run 180 MPH. There are issues with running NHRA OR IHRA PRO ET. So if the bracket race deal is so great how come more and more guys are coming here. At least you can build a 10 K stocker and race and have a chance. LETS LEAVE THE ELEMINATOR ALONE.... Todd Hoven STK 1035 |
Re: What about STOCK ?
Show me a competitive 10K stocker. I'll buy it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chip |
Re: What about STOCK ?
Don Himes just sold his 1.10 under P/sa Grandprix for 11K. so I'm off by a thousand. You can buy Morgan's P/sa Olds Cutlass for 14K. There are others as well that come up. NHRA Stockers anyway.
Todd Hoven 1035 STK |
Re: What about STOCK ?
Todd,,Im guilty of the same thing in brackets,,,my footer runs 7.0`s @ 107mph with a 1.76 60ft....racing at every level has almost become a spending frenzy with the best of parts and all the tricks just to keep a competitive edge
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Re: What about STOCK ?
Himes was asking much more than that at one time.
14k is a long way from 10K. How many rds have those 2 cars won in the last 5 years. My point being those are 2 good cars but building a COMPETITIVE car will cost over 20K minimum and depending on the class will be double. STOCK is not stock anymore. STOCK is far from entry level. Racing cost lots of money regardless of the class you enter. Now back to the original post (Sorry Jim did'nt mean to HiJack the thred.) Super Stock and Stock to be different. Stock needs to have NO 2-STEPS or BUTTONS of any kind. INCLUDING STICK CARS. If you want a button try Brackets,.90 class or Super Stock. Chip Johnson |
Re: What about STOCK ?
I wouldn't mind seeing delay boxes in stock.
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Why are some of you so adamant about taking the 2 steps away from stick cars?? Most stock fields only have a handful of stick cars entered and its not the norm for one to go deep into eliminations (excluding Helms). Do you feel that if a stick car has a 2 step on the starting line and you dont that you are at a disadvantage?? If so, put a stick in your car with a 2 step and lets see how consistant you are on the tree and on the track with it. I bet you put your slushbox back in, in less than a month. Besides, if you take away the 2 (or 3) step from Stock Eliminator, 65% of the field wont make it out of the burnout box.... |
Re: What about STOCK ?
Dave,
I taught at Roy Hill's Drag Racing School for 5 years. The first thing we taught was how to do a burnout. Roy always said if you can't control yourself in the water you'll never make it down the track. I'm done on this thread because it keeps getting away from the original subject. A lot of it's my fault too. Chip |
Re: What about STOCK ?
No buttons, no two steps, make it simple.
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Re: What about STOCK ?
John,
That would be all it took. Take them out, end of controversy. Maybe the same guys would win everything, maybe not. I would love to see it happen and find out. Level the playing field without the driver aids. I hope the tech officials will finally do something about this. JEFF DAY |
Re: What about STOCK ?
>> Most stock fields only have a handful of stick cars entered and its not the norm for one to go deep into eliminations (excluding Helms).
Ironically enough, Dave Wenzel destroyed me this weekend with an .015 package! LOL Awesome run, Dave. It was an honor to race with you! Stick cars can have 2-steps. There's no need for anyone else to have them. >> Besides, if you take away the 2 (or 3) step from Stock Eliminator, 65% of the field wont make it out of the burnout box.... Do WHAT?! Boy, I missed the smiley face after that one. ;) If you can't do a burnout without a 2-step, y'all should just put 'em back in the trailer right now! (I doubt 65% of the field is even using a 2-step anyhoo) -=shrug=- |
Re: What about STOCK ?
it would be nice to see just how the majority feels,,,,I think that after the last couple of years ,,racers are finally starting to see the lite or at least where its going,,,,,,stick cars do need them and I think that everyone that drives an automatic understands its a fair trade off,,
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Re: What about STOCK ?
The best way to level the field is MAKE everyone convert to 4 speed stick. No inline shifter, No faceplating gears, No aftermarket transmissions and a OEM style clutch and flywheel. That would show the drivers and the chassis tuners and you WOULD have NEW WINNERS!!!!!!!!
Just a crazy outburst but one more vote NO electronics or buttons in stock!!!! |
Re: What about STOCK ?
HAHAHA...I Like Clutchman!
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Re: What about STOCK ?
I second Clutchman
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Re: What about STOCK ?
Has S/SS really changed that much? How much did it cost in todays dollars, for Pontiac, Ford, Chevrolet, or Chrysler to "show up" at Indy with special "approved" cars and parts like they did in the 60's? How could the average racer compete with the factory stockers back then?
A reprint of: Pontiac Muscle Car Performance, by Pete McCarthy (page 109) (see www.petemccarthy.com) [...trouble was lurking in Detroit. Chevy released the 409, and Mopar was thinking about stuffing a full race 413 into the light Dodge and Plymouth bodies. Ford released the 406 in a stripped body shell. Just before the US Nationals drag race meet on Labor Day weekend in 1961, Pontiac stuck it to Ford and Chevy by announcing the "availability" of a new 421 SD package. According to Malcolm McKellar, the "availability" consisted of about a dozen engines shipped in pieces to Mickey Thompson, Arnie Beswick and a few others. It was rated at a ridiculous 373 HP, a scant five horsepower increase of the 1961 389 SD engine. Hayden Proffitt, Mickey Thompson's driver, simply annihilated the competition in the new "Optional" Super Stock Class. Shortly thereafter, NHRA officials put a stop to this type of factory sandbagging, and decreed that henceforward all Super Stock must be factory assembled and in the hands of the general public. At this juncture, Pontiac announce the availability of the 389 SD and the 421 SD "Special Purpose" vehicles, and the fun soon began.] Just food for thought. Lynn |
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Re: What about STOCK ?
I agree with clutch man... But why is he now the hero but im crazy when I say the same stuff?
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Re: What about STOCK ?
OK, I'm gunna make this real simple so everybody can understand. It doesn't make a damn what the other guy has or doesn't have in his car. If you can dial your car better and react better than him..... win light in your lane. Slow car, fast car, it does not matter. As my dad used to say, it's the loose nut behind the wheel. Period! Now I'm not saying you should be able to jump into a car and win right off the bat. It takes seat time. If I raced more often than I do I might be able to win something to. I had a .004 package against Hidalgo at the SportsNats and thought that was good enough, it wasn't! The good guys have a lot more seat time than I ever will.Jim
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Re: What about STOCK ?
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Re: What about STOCK ?
They've been called WHINERS because they don't believe in twosteps!
" " They care to preserve what little is left of Stock! " " They want the CURRENT rules enforced! " " They don't like made up combo's! " " They won't shut up and take cheaters garbage! Seems to me that this group called Whiners are a pretty honarable group of racers that care enough to comment on things they feel strongly about. I can only hope to be called a Whiner. I would believe the Whiners out number the " Don't question my combo, cheater parts, starting line nonsense Guys". Go ahead and attack my comment because I have Thick skin, a real name and I am a whiner. Louis Jeffery IHRA Stock 3225 Footbraker. |
Re: What about STOCK ?
clutch man, I have already given you my name car # and IHRA affiliation. I have never won a stock race. I have competed in div.3 since 2003. My last stock race was Milan points meet July 14-15. I can tell from your posts that not only are you a Gentleman and a true sporstman you must be some Fantastic driver. Why not tell us your name and some of the big races you have won?
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Re: What about STOCK ?
Nobody can use a delay box in stock because they check for them. Thats funny.
Nobody uses lightweight rods and pistons either. The Matty box fiasco was just an urban legend too. Never was Nitrous in Pro Stock. LOL Ya'll are so funny. Oops I gotta go I said I was done with this topic. Chip p.s. I really don't think there are delay boxes in stock. I just wish the buttons would go away. Make it a true FOOTBRAKE class. If you need a button there are classes for them. |
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